How to torch money... (1 Viewer)

[Trihonda]

play in a game that plays 72...

I have a buddy who hosts a semi regular (monthly) game. 1/2 w/ 2 rounds of NLHE and 1 round over PLO. He has the 72 rule in effect. The players are all skilled, thinking, profitable, but will gamble and mix it up. It's a game where you either win big, or lose all the cash in your wallet... they money moves around the table

Last night was one of those nights...

My final hand has me tilted a bit.

10-handed, avg stack is $500. I'm sitting on my last $200, just rebought after my QQ was beaten by TJo. I'm in late position. There's a $5 UTG Straddle. UTG+1 raises to $15, UTG+2 calls, folds to me and I look down at KK. I'm playing tight, and haven't three or four bet once this session. With my tight image, I feel like if I raise big, I'm blowing everyone out of the water, so I bump it to $40 It folds to UTG+1 and UTG+2 who both call. $127 in the pot.

Flop comes 775r. Checks to me, and I lay out a bet of $75 (leaving me only $90 behind). UTG 1 folds, but UTG 2 jams. He's a very bluffy maniac, so he could be doing this move with anything. I call, and our villain rolls over 72o. I'm drawing to a king, and don't improve.

Villain called $25 extra preflop with 72 and an intention to try to later bluff me off a hand that I raised to $40 preflop. Sigh... I hate poker sometimes... for the same reasons I love poker sometimes..

I definitely ran a clinic on how to torch through money....

 

[krafticus]

72 can be your friend more times than not.

it was a long time ago, but I had a hand once while playing the 72 bounty. I had A2. I don't remember the pre-flop action. Flop came out A27. bets, raises, and on to the turn. turn is a blank and he shoves. I even state I am pretty sure he is playing 72. He was, we flip the cards over. River --- 7. Thats poker!!!

 

[bentax1978]

Villain called $25 extra preflop with 72 and an intention to try to later bluff me off a hand that I raised to $40 preflop

UTG+2 was getting better than 4-1 to call the $25. Not sure how much you guys pay out for a 72 win, but if it was $5/person, then he was actually getting about 6-1 to make the call. With those odds, I'm calling in that position too.

 

[kk405]

This is the fugly part of the game we play/love/hate. Sometimes they justify the call by math. Sometimes by feel. Sometimes they say 'I felt like gambling'. more often than not, especially if you're playing in a loose game, it's more gambling than poker. Hard to rationalize these things and although ending up on the losing side of these hands stings a lot, it's just the stupid part of the game we play. Over the long run, just continue to play well and you shall be rewarded. Last night someone called $75 in BB with 23o in our game. flopped trips and rivered a boat in a MONSTER size pot against AA. His rationale? I was up a lot and it was 'just $75'. Let's just say he is not a winning player year-to-date or lifetime in our game.

 

[detroitdad]

UTG+2 was getting better than 4-1 to call the $25. Not sure how much you guys pay out for a 72 win, but if it was $5/person, then he was actually getting about 6-1 to make the call. With those odds, I'm calling in that position too.

I was thinking the same thing. Erik, I get that you don't want to push everyone out of the hand. I think my pre flop raise would have been a little bit bigger. Also, I'm a fan of saying fuck you to the 7/2 shenanigans.

 

[Trihonda]

I was thinking the same thing. Erik, I get that you don't want to push everyone out of the hand. I think my pre flop raise would have been a little bit bigger. Also, I'm a fan of saying fuck you to the 7/2 shenanigans.

Ya, I get the math... but the 72 thing tilts me to no end. People play stupid, which is sometimes fun and profitable. One reason I dislike the 72 thing is I dont play it much, and I'm apparently not adjusting well to it.. many of these players like to play it, and gambol it up. I don't even think about it, which probably a huge leak when I play this game... had I been thinking about the 72 aspect, I "might" have been able to get away from the hand when he C/R me on the flop... but probably not, lol...

Don't get me wrong, I'm torn. I WANTED the preflop call, for sure... but to get the call and get unlucky sucks. Grrr.. I get it, it's poker... So I'm trying to get into the villan's head some... I think his call was bad, which is why I wanted a call...

UTG +2 was likely getting correct odds (in a vacuum), but with a holding like 72, there's very low probability you're improving against a tight player who just three bet for the first time all night. In fact, there was very little three betting going on period... Certainly not likely to get that person to fold to a later bluff, which is the main value in playing 72. My range was extremely polarized. Everyone knew what I had. I expected to get called by AK type hands, or maybe suited 9T or TJ connector hands, that had a chance at improving. 72's only real chance at winning is to bluff or hit miracle flops...

Interesting question for folks... if you have 72, and you know you were up against KK, AA, would you still call the $25 in this spot?

Ran the numbers, and it gives KK vs 72o 88% vs 12%. Not sure that translates into a +EV call

 

[CraigT78]

Interesting question for folks... if you have 72, and you know you were up against KK, AA, would you still call the $25 in this spot?

Having read your first post? Yes. Every single time!

 

[DrStrange]

72 is a huge dog but if my stack is short enough / the 72 bounty big enough then I could stick around.

We play 72 with a $10 payment per losing player, so it is worth ~$80 to $90 when your 72 wins. I never raise my 72 unless my stack is short enough to jam and even then the table has to be in a mood to fold. I find it better to limp in and either catch lucky or stumble upon a board where a bluff might work.

In the situation described in the OP, there isn't a chance I play 72. I like money more than the "glory" of winning with 72.

 

[Ronoh]

Interesting question for folks... if you have 72, and you know you were up against KK, AA, would you still call the $25 in this spot?

If I know I'm up against AA/KK I'm calling with any two cards... pretty big advantage to know your opponents cards yeah?

 

[bentax1978]

One reason I dislike the 72 thing is I dont play it much, and I'm apparently not adjusting well to it.. many of these players like to play it, and gambol it up. I don't even think about it, which probably a huge leak when I play this game

This is all true. You need to make some adjustments, and you do definitely need to think about it in the context of adding it to the range of everyone's hand.

UTG +2 was likely getting correct odds (in a vacuum), but with a holding like 72, there's very low probability you're improving against a tight player who just three bet for the first time all night. In fact, there was very little three betting going on period... Certainly not likely to get that person to fold to a later bluff, which is the main value in playing 72. My range was extremely polarized. Everyone knew what I had. I expected to get called by AK type hands, or maybe suited 9T or TJ connector hands, that had a chance at improving. 72's only real chance at winning is to bluff or hit miracle flops...

Not entirely true, doesn't take a miracle. You could have had AK/AQ or the like and 72 can out flop you by just hitting a pair. You could have had TT or JJ and would fold to a shove on the flop to a bluff by 72 with overcards to you pair on the board. Even with your KK you might throw in the towel if an ace hits the board. My point is that if the person holding 72 is aggressive and willing to gamble, it won't take a miracle to take the pot down against better starting hands.

Interesting question for folks... if you have 72, and you know you were up against KK, AA, would you still call the $25 in this spot?

Depends on the stack sizes, the 72 bounty amount, and the player holding the AA/KK.

 

[bentax1978]

I like money more than the "glory" of winning with 72.

Depends on the stakes and who I'm playing with, the glory can often be worth more than the money (to me).

 

[Trihonda]

Lol, I can't say that 72 has been completely bad for me... but the bounty game isn't something I focus on...

I was at the flamingo a few years back, and we are all getting raped by this Morpheus look alike at the end of the table. He's table captain, is sitting on a huge stack. We can't beat him... playing 1/2.

I'm on the button, and it's limped to me, and I decide I'm playing this hand like pocket aces, no matter my holdings. I look down at and smile (inside)... what better hand to bluff with than the worst hand in poker... I bump it to $20, and Morpheus is the only caller... flop is pretty favorable:



Morpheus checks, I bet out, he calls. I'm thinking he's got a decent ace and is trying to be tricky...

Turn is

Morpheus checks again, I bet out big and he calls. Now I range him on exactly AQ, and plan to check/fold the river...

which is...

Morpheus checks and I jam. I get insta-called, and when I throw down my 7/2 bluff-turned-boat, the table erupts in laughter.. I don't think Morpheus was popular with anyone... he shows AQ

Here's the table:

 

[WedgeRock]

Also, I'm a fan of saying fuck you to the 7/2 shenanigans.

@Azcat loves that game!

 

[onerand]

This is a cooler, but raise more first in. 25 on top is tiny. First guy has to call 25 to win 75.

 

[Jimulacrum]

It's a big mistake to play tight all night and then, when you finally get a 3-betting or better hand, convince yourself, "Well, if I raise too much, they'll all fold anyway. I'll make a very small raise."

That's crazy talk. Raise to a proper size next time. It's $1/$2/$5, then PFR to $15 with one call. A pot-sized raise is about $70; maybe go $75 or $80 (or more depending no game texture). Try to get it heads-up with a plan to shove. If you fold everyone out, you make a modest profit of $38—not a monster but nothing to complain about. But more importantly, it's very hard for 27 to justify flatting $60 or $70 more just to try to make a move or get a bonus. You want to thin the field to another big pair or a big ace or something. Failing to do that is offering your opponents attractive odds and inviting unpredictability.

 

[Kain8]

If I know I'm up against AA/KK I'm calling with any two cards... pretty big advantage to know your opponents cards yeah?

So much this. Almost feels unfair sometimes against Tighty McTightersons.