How to avoid cheating in home games? (1 Viewer)

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DerberAlter

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Hey guys,

how to avoid cheating in home games? Which types of cheating are possible? We play with my equipment and typically I deal all night long. In case I need a break, someone else is dealing. We play with 2 decks. One deck gets shuffled by a random player.

I never had any issues, but on the other hand, from where should I know that my game is safe, if I don't know the possible cheats?
 
first, avoid paranoia
In home games cheating will not be the first concern but angle shooting

The usual cheats at home games are the ones that are not sophisticated such as;
dealing from the bottom
read marked cards
peeking at other players' cards
peeking botom card from the deck
going south
 
Wouldn’t be paranoid for private home games if you know the players eg friends.

Deck manipulation - can be eliminated by shuffling and having a different person cut the deck. Also the nature of Hold’em with burning a card and dealing was inherently meant to prevent cheating. Also use a cut card.

Marked cards - eliminated by the cards being yours and you have good quality plastic playing cards that are hard to mark. Eg paper cards can easily be bent or marked with a nail etc.

Sneaking in higher value chips of their own - if you have dice chips, it’s too readily available and easy for someone to do this. Your protection is a function of what chips you buy, eg customs, harder to find sets etc. If the chips are hard for us to acquire it’ll be as hard for cheats to acquire as well.

Collusion - just have to be aware at the table. It’s harder to detect / prove
 
Last edited:
Thank you guys for your input. I'm not paranoid at all. I think my round is super safe, maybe the safest game around. But I should be aware about the possible cheats and how to detect them.

Any idea how to detect collusion in cash game? Most probably it's hard to detect, but maybe there are some hints?
 
Signs are the most common way of collusion, and you can't list them all as it goes from which hand I use to bet to how I place a given item on the drink trailer.
Other newbie pattern is the re-raise to made a 3rd player fold before folding himself to a bet
 
Collusion isn't always "cheating on purpose" as marking cards or dealing from the bottom are. Sometimes noobs just don't know any better. Many years ago I hosted a tournament and sat at the same table as my girlfriend at the time. I had played a few years but she was a beginner. I was a bit short and went all in from the cutoff. She called from the SB and showed rags, publicly and proudly stating that it's better if I get the chips because I was better at poker. That put me in a really awkward position and players got upset at both her and me. Another problem was that I was bluffing and her rags beat my rags... She wasn't a cheater*, she just thought she was being strategic.

If players collude on purpose it's usually much harder to detect.

* It turns out she actually was a cheater, just not in poker. Glad to be rid of her.
 
Mr Winberg said:
Collusion isn't always "cheating on purpose" as marking cards or dealing from the bottom are. Sometimes noobs just don't know any better. Many years ago I hosted a tournament and sat at the same table as my girlfriend at the time. I had played a few years but she was a beginner. I was a bit short and went all in from the cutoff. She called from the SB and showed rags, publicly and proudly stating that it's better if I get the chips because I was better at poker. That put me in a really awkward position and players got upset at both her and me. Another problem was that I was bluffing and her rags beat my rags... She wasn't a cheater*, she just thought she was being strategic.

If players collude on purpose it's usually much harder to detect.

* It turns out she actually was a cheater, just not in poker. Glad to be rid of her.
Click to expand...
I agree. Collusion can be done out of ignorance. New players don't always realize that soft playing another player is unfair to everyone else.
 
DerberAlter said:
Thank you guys for your input. I'm not paranoid at all. I think my round is super safe, maybe the safest game around. But I should be aware about the possible cheats and how to detect them.

Any idea how to detect collusion in cash game? Most probably it's hard to detect, but maybe there are some hints?
Click to expand...

For me it is all about knowing the people I play with. These people are coming into my house where my family is. The point is I need to be able to trust them. If I think someone is shady or just untrustworthy I wouldn't invite them to my game. I guess I am taking more of a big picture approach and just judging people based on their character. Most sketchy people are known for how their life is away from the poker table. If your players are nice people with good jobs and good families then likely they aren't going to try and cheat their friends out of money.

If you are the only one handling the decks that are being dealt that eliminates perhaps the biggest potential area where someone could cheat.
 
In order of appearance. Most likely first.

1. Shorting the pot either by splashing the pot or making your own inaccurate change. This is hard to detect and harder to punish < if the villain isn’t too greedy>
One red bird every couple of hours turns into $500/yr in a weekly game.

2. Peeking or exploiting dealer faults. Hard to draw the line between cheating and advantage gambling.

3. Collusion. Collusion is such a squishy term, turned even more bastardized by the current US politics. sometimes harmless, sometimes backfires, occasionally effective. Often the “cheaters” don’t really understand collusion is wrong - “so implied collusion is ok but not so for explicit collusion” sounds like the old hands can do it but not us newby players.

4. Wringing in fake chips. Not so much a problem for PCF hosts, but games with dice chips beware.

5. Holding out cards - I.e. the cheat keeps a couple of spare cards from prior hands hidden under the rail or such and switches them out if needed. So holding out :as::kd: plus your current two card means it is much easier to make a big flush or top set - kind like the cheat gets to play Omaha while the rest of the table plays holdem. It is a weak sauce waste of cheating to make top pair too often.

6. Never known a game with marked decks, stacked decks or a mechanic. Could happen. Would not likely detect it if it were going on so long as the cheat wasn’t greedy.

I worked with an FBI agent years ago who followed the mantra that almost everyone is honest by default but when exposed to temptation even the most honorable man can succumb. I thought that was a sound way to look at life and my home poker game. Don’t splash the pot. Don’t make change in the middle of a hand, use cut cards. Always cut the deck - no one gets to tap and anyone can cut a second time. Use somewhat unique chips. Use separate chips for tournament play vs cash game. Occasionally count down the stub.

Trust but verify -=- DrStrange
 
DrStrange said:
In order of appearance. Most likely first.

1. Shorting the pot either by splashing the pot or making your own inaccurate change. This is hard to detect and harder to punish < if the villain isn’t too greedy>
One red bird every couple of hours turns into $500/yr in a weekly game.

2. Peeking or exploiting dealer faults. Hard to draw the line between cheating and advantage gambling.

3. Collusion. Collusion is such a squishy term, turned even more bastardized by the current US politics. sometimes harmless, sometimes backfires, occasionally effective. Often the “cheaters” don’t really understand collusion is wrong - “so implied collusion is ok but not so for explicit collusion” sounds like the old hands can do it but not us newby players.

4. Wringing in fake chips. Not so much a problem for PCF hosts, but games with dice chips beware.

5. Holding out cards - I.e. the cheat keeps a couple of spare cards from prior hands hidden under the rail or such and switches them out if needed. So holding out :as::kd: plus your current two card means it is much easier to make a big flush or top set - kind like the cheat gets to play Omaha while the rest of the table plays holdem. It is a weak sauce waste of cheating to make top pair too often.

6. Never known a game with marked decks, stacked decks or a mechanic. Could happen. Would not likely detect it if it were going on so long as the cheat wasn’t greedy.

I worked with an FBI agent years ago who followed the mantra that almost everyone is honest by default but when exposed to temptation even the most honorable man can succumb. I thought that was a sound way to look at life and my home poker game. Don’t splash the pot. Don’t make change in the middle of a hand, use cut cards. Always cut the deck - no one gets to tap and anyone can cut a second time. Use somewhat unique chips. Use separate chips for tournament play vs cash game. Occasionally count down the stub.

Trust but verify -=- DrStrange
Click to expand...
this is exactly the input I need. thank you
 
Mr Winberg said:
Collusion isn't always "cheating on purpose" as marking cards or dealing from the bottom are. Sometimes noobs just don't know any better. Many years ago I hosted a tournament and sat at the same table as my girlfriend at the time. I had played a few years but she was a beginner. I was a bit short and went all in from the cutoff. She called from the SB and showed rags, publicly and proudly stating that it's better if I get the chips because I was better at poker. That put me in a really awkward position and players got upset at both her and me. Another problem was that I was bluffing and her rags beat my rags... She wasn't a cheater*, she just thought she was being strategic.

If players collude on purpose it's usually much harder to detect.

* It turns out she actually was a cheater, just not in poker. Glad to be rid of her.
Click to expand...

While technically collusion I kind of consider this people just not understanding the game and etiquette. When beginners engage in so called collusion it isn't the spirit of collusion.

The "real" form of collusion to be concerned about is with experienced players that are playing more serious stakes.
 
@DrStrange nails all the high points. The best way to keep your game safe is to follow the established rules. Make it harder to cheat.

As for collusion, intentional or unintentional, I track 'partners' in every tournament. If I see players that win more when they are playing at a table with their 'partner' they will be less likely to be seated at the same table in the future (I usually run multi-table events). Partners could be friends, spouses, or whatever. If you invite someone to my game, you are listed as that player's partner. Some players have multiple partners on record.

This method has drawbacks. It cannot stop collusion the first time it happens. It may ensnare a player that just knows how to read their spouse extremely well. Any system could be gamed if someone knew the formula. Nothing is perfect, but something is better than nothing.

Of course when we strongly suspect soft play, chip dumping, or any other collusion, we say something (it happened once) the same way we inform players of any rule violation. Not judgemental (I believe most collusion in a $20 game is not intended to be malevolent), but they will be informed.

There was a video floating about of a player caught cheating a home game on camera. That player was a trustworthy friend and co-worker of those players, and played in a number of different home games. Just because you think you don't need to take basic precautions, doesn't mean your opponents aren't glad you aren't. In the end, the neighbors of Columbine killer Eric Harris called him "a very nice, polite, clean-cut kid.” and “a very pleasant individual.”

You just never know.
 
DerberAlter said:
Hey guys,

how to avoid cheating in home games? Which types of cheating are possible? We play with my equipment and typically I deal all night long. In case I need a break, someone else is dealing. We play with 2 decks. One deck gets shuffled by a random player.

I never had any issues, but on the other hand, from where should I know that my game is safe, if I don't know the possible cheats?
Click to expand...
We have dealers that literally earn there living in town dealing home games. the take can be quite good and always cash. The risk is not worth the reward as the home game community everyone knows each other. if your reputation is compromised . your banned everywhere. We keep the group close. No one on the book, cash in cash out....normally it is just fine.... and these are 2/5 games or 1/3... the bigger games are even more exclusive, different dealers, locations as it moves around town. No cash at game as the stakes are higher so players pre pay and cash out the next day for security. These are established games , hosts , etc. ….

There are bad apples. but the community knows never to go there and they are never allowed to our games either.
 
The most important forms of cheating (and counter-measures) have been covered by notable members here.
The subtlest part in friendly home games is to draw the line between socializing and actually colluding (small talk addressing not everybody at the table, so nobody knows if it's about a girlfriend or the current hand; showing what you had -or even have- only to the guy next to you, cursing your bad luck or bad play after the hand or even during the hand if the next guy is out; not using the clear statements "call, bet, raise" before anything else when to act etc.
"'Cause we 're here to have fun, man":mad:
 
2jzMk3 said:
I just get everyone shithouse drunk. That way, we are all so sloppy, we couldn’t cheat if we tried.

All I need to figure out now is how to do this over Xbox Live so I can beat these damn 14 year olds in Call of Duty
Click to expand...
I used to be a god at COD (avg 3-4 K/D) and now I can barely get a 1.0 K/D on the new editions I feel so old :dead:
 
ReallyGoodUsername said:
How to avoid cheating at a home game? Easy, display your gun collection behind the table :tup: jkjk
Click to expand...
We were at a guys house once for a game and everyone was drinking more than is probably reasonable. About halfway through the game the host disappeared, we assumed bathroom break. Instead he comes out of his bedroom with several 9mm and starts loading them up, swinging them around "showing them off" needless to say the game wrapped up quickly.

I love guns.
I love alcohol.
Never the twain shall meet.
 
Marhault said:
We were at a guys house once for a game and everyone was drinking more than is probably reasonable. About halfway through the game the host disappeared, we assumed bathroom break. Instead he comes out of his bedroom with several 9mm and starts loading them up, swinging them around "showing them off" needless to say the game wrapped up quickly.

I love guns.
I love alcohol.
Never the twain shall meet.
Click to expand...

We had a guy who would get way too mad at games when he lost. He throws his head in his hands and trembles when a hand is lost. The last game I played with him, we all thought he was gonna go postal. Literally stood in the corner and stared at the wall for a good 5 minutes. Upon cashing out, he insulted the host and needless to say, will never be invited again.
@Cdsmitck got a good shot of me raking in a pot against him. Ignore the dice chips and possibly the dirtiest pot ever. His reaction was nothing short of his usual self.

A748F1BB-7EF8-484C-A4B4-E1D1790FA4B7.jpeg
 
2jzMk3 said:
We had a guy who would get way too mad at games when he lost. He throws his head in his hands and trembles when a hand is lost. The last game I played with him, we all thought he was gonna go postal. Literally stood in the corner and stared at the wall for a good 5 minutes. Upon cashing out, he insulted the host and needless to say, will never be invited again.
@Cdsmitck got a good shot of me raking in a pot against him. Ignore the dice chips and possibly the dirtiest pot ever. His reaction was nothing short of his usual self.

View attachment 337590
Click to expand...

We may need to check your ID to make sure you aren’t one of those 14 year olds kicking our asses at CoD!
 
2jzMk3 said:
My 15th birthday is tomorrow...

But for real, everyone who says I should be happy about looking 10 years younger than I am can kick rocks, it sucks!
Click to expand...

Shavings is just a pain in the ass, be happy you don’t have to worry about it yet. ;)

I’d love to look 10 years younger. I was excited when I got carded buying beer last week. I had just shaved and wearing a ball cap so none of my grey hair was showing. But I’ll take it!
 

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