How often do you have your game? A discussion about long term sustainability. (1 Viewer)

[Mojo1312]

Quad, I'll say a little about stakes, but will mostly address timing and sustainability.

I started playing in 1981. A poker pro taught me this about stakes. In a limit game, 40-60x the max bet should be the buy-in. In no-limit, 200+ the ante. He said anything less and you weren't likely to be able to play out big hands without tapping out, thus cutting your winnings if you won. He never worried about limiting losses.

I've always tried to think of games in those terms. It's probably old school, but when I hear $.25/.50, I think $500-1000 buy-in and twice that for $.50/1.00, and that's just above my budget. Maybe I need to come watch a $.25/.50 game to see how people really play because a $40/60/100 buy in seems very low to me for no limit.

There are no antes in NL poker. A $500 to $1000 buy-in is 1,000 to 2,000BB's in a .25/.50 game. $100 would give you a buy-in of 200BB's. Keep in mind, when players buy back into a cash game, their chips, unlike a tournament, have a cash value that is equal to their face value. In a cash game, stack sizes increase in relation to the blinds, whereas in a tournament, they decrease. So an 80 to a 160BB game changes significantly as the session progresses and the rebuys accumulate.

We would play four handed with $1500 to $1600 on the table towards the end of the evening.

I'm not sure this is helpful, but when I hear of cash players bailing out because of losses, I often suspect they have no real idea what their losses might be.

You can put that erroneous notion to rest. Almost every cash player knows the exact $ amount of their losses when they bust out. (You may find a drunk exception here and there, but even in those rare cases, the majority of them will know how much they lost after they sober up.)

 

[CHP TD]

I completely hear you, and I agree which is why I'm where I'm at. I forgot to mention that of my regulars, this is only his second attendance and first night really being belligerent. I did take control of the situation but it grinded my gears and now here I am. I planned to call him tomorrow just because I don't think I will see him before the game.

yeah its tough. Like really tough. ive done it and it was scary, but that friendship actually thrived afterwards.

its better face to face but calling is also good.

hang in there and prey for the right words to come out and the wrong words to stay in. then just a little courage and youre there.

good luck!

this is why hosting is a labor of love. Sounds like you're on the right track.(y) :thumbsup:

 

[TexRex]

Mojo, back in the 1980s, I never heard of a home game with blinds -- it was all antes. You are right I messed the math up! LOL -- Actual advice was 300-500x the ante, or what I'd relate to the BB today. He was trying to get me to understand that there is a significant difference between NL and limit. So let me revise. A $.25/.50 game would be buy-ins of $200-250; and $.50/1.00 would be $400-500. I'll also add that those were generally dealer's choice games, not specific games. Another issue discussed was the number of betting rounds in a game and how that affects the buy in.

I'm sure most cash players know what they lost in a night, but over the long haul, I'm not so sure. I've heard guys say "I just about break even" when in fact, they are one of the biggest losers in the game. Maybe they are just saying that, but I take them at their word. They may not know what level of losses they can sustain long-run because they don't see their game realistically. Most players I know don't actually track their stats.

 

[Quad Johnson]

yeah its tough. Like really tough. ive done it and it was scary, but that friendship actually thrived afterwards.

its better face to face but calling is also good.

hang in there and prey for the right words to come out and the wrong words to stay in. then just a little courage and youre there.

good luck!

this is why hosting is a labor of love. Sounds like you're on the right track.(y) :thumbsup:

Call is done, Jorge and I are ok. He apologized profusely actually. I told you guys, his ball busting and antics isn't abnormal behavior, especially with guys he's comfortable with. I know Jorge through a mutual friend and we've been religiously watching football seasons together for the last 5 years. He and his wife constantly cook smorgasbords of food for us and she always tells us "I'm not happy until all my boys are fat and happy".

The reason why the spot was so tough for me is because we have such personal relations and memories. If he were some random schmuck/acquaintance/nobody, well that's a different story all together and asking for you good folks input wouldn't have even occurred.

We're on the same page now though so I'm happy with the outcome. I'll report if anything changes this week. If it's more of the same, then he's officially 86'd. I didn't threaten with that, for it's just unnecessary hostility at this point.

Thanks again PCF for all your words of wisdom. This is a fantastic community. Y'all rock and hope to maybe make a long drive to meet some of y'all at a meetup closest to me in the future.

 

[CHP TD]

Call is done, Jorge and I are ok. He apologized profusely actually. I told you guys, his ball busting and antics isn't abnormal behavior, especially with guys he's comfortable with. I know Jorge through a mutual friend and we've been religiously watching football seasons together for the last 5 years. He and his wife constantly cook smorgasbords of food for us and she always tells us "I'm not happy until all my boys are fat and happy".

The reason why the spot was so tough for me is because we have such personal relations and memories. If he were some random schmuck/acquaintance/nobody, well that's a different story all together and asking for you good folks input wouldn't have even occurred.

We're on the same page now though so I'm happy with the outcome. I'll report if anything changes this week. If it's more of the same, then he's officially 86'd. I didn't threaten with that, for it's just unnecessary hostility at this point.

Thanks again PCF for all your words of wisdom. This is a fantastic community. Y'all rock and hope to maybe make a long drive to meet some of y'all at a meetup closest to me in the future.

Thanks for letting us know, great to hear it all went well.

 

[JustinInMN]

I'm glad it went well. Sometimes we fear confrontation and build it up to be worse than it ends up being.

The best advice I got in college was having "courageous conversations" is part of the job. (I am a database developer by trade.). Sometimes you have to be bold to do the right thing.

All that said, I am an ounce of prevention kind of guy when hosting. Going forward I suggest when table talk gets out of control just prompt "the hand is live" in general and that should quiet the players. I don't think singling out people is necessary until it's repetitive (which has never happened in my hosting time) and keeping the prompt broad reinforces the idea the rules apply to everyone.

As for the money stuff, just stay vigilant and again enforce the rules apply to everyone.

Hopefully nothing will escalate to this point again, but you seem to have passed a pretty difficult test here, your game should be better for it.

 

[Quad Johnson]

Going forward I suggest when table talk gets out of control just prompt "the hand is live" in general and that should quiet the players. I don't think singling out people is necessary until it's repetitive (which has never happened in my hosting time) and keeping the prompt broad reinforces the idea the rules apply to everyone.

Yes, thank you for that suggestion. I made a mental note of it to use it proceeding forward. I like that much better and I agree, singling someone out isn't necessary immediately.

 

[joeyshin]

We do a 0.25/0.50 and either do $40 or $60 for initial buys. After that up to $100. In a 1 table 10 player game typically 1400 - 1600 floating around. Pots are typically around if not heads up 200bb and sometimes higher then 400bb. Most folks will do 3 buys of $40 tops, some a lot more. The game is getting more and more aggressive in betting and a few folks have been chased off but really when I take a hard look at the betting it is not out of line.

This is waht I loved about Carl's game. They used to play mixed games until i got there. They used Dice chips and we played guts and elevator...then i turned them to holdem and good chips. that was..2010? i left 3 years ago...good to see game still going strong

 

[RagingAZN]

Apologies for bringing this thread back from the dead but lots of good info in here. I think for a home game you need to find the correct balance between the correct stakes and frequency. I wouls love to play $1/$2 NLHE every Friday at my home game but my current friend/player pool wouldn’t support that.

Unlike playing other sports on the weekend with your friends, if you suck at poker, it can get expensive quite quickly. So I host a 25c/50c cash game and $25 bounty tournament alternating every 2 weeks which is a good level of buyin for my particular group I have a player pool of about 20 now and just run one table. Put a message out on Monday and the first 10 are in.

Key is to always be recruiting! Ask your kids friends dads, the guys in the gym, workmates, family, etc.

 

[DeeVee8]

I have a list of printed rules... but the number one (generally only rule announced pre-game) is that my games are “douche-baggery free”. Explained, if necessary, is to say that everyone is a guest in my home, and I expect people to treat each other accordingly.. additionally, be a good sport. If you win, win nicely, if you lose, lose nicely. Don’t be a douche, get invited back.

That needs to be on a motivational poster.

 

[DeeVee8]

You gotta read the room. If you're playing too much, your numbers might drop. As PT Barnum said, "Always leave them wanting more".

 

[DeeVee8]

Influencing table talk is a big one with him. When I speak up to nip it, he gets salty and the remainder of the night is comments of "Don't worry. Don't want anyone to need to change out their tampon".

When dealing last night, he went to put the river down early before the turn action was done. Myself and one other person both were like "hey wait a minute" because there were still people to act. It's met with a "SHUT THE FUCK UP!" (again, ball buster. nothing new for him. smile on his face after he said it) because he had planned to put the card face down, just to "have it ready". Then he explains he wasn't going to put it down, I tell him he confused a few of us at once cause it looked like he was about to put it down. He said something to the effect of "Don't worry about me, I know what I'm doing. Worry about yourself". Meanwhile, the people in the hand had a mild heart attack as they thought he was about to drop the river.

Last night a situation came up where a player realized on the flop that he hadn't paid the blind (limped pot). He goes to muck his hand and says he would've folded this preflop.

I told him whether he mucks or sticks around, he owes 50c to the pot because he still saw a flop with those cards and therefore, still has to pay for it.

Jorge interferes and argues with me on this, "it's no big deal, it's only 50c, it's such a small sum of money. Why do you take this so seriously?". I explain to him you can't just see a flop for free and then decide to stick around or not and that I'm trying to make a fair game for all of us and it's met with more ball busting. The player had no issue with it and put what he owed to the pot but Jorge didn't see it as a big deal and very vocally let all of us know.

Thats a fast track to ruining your game. Allow an asshole. Players don't want to deal with him any more than you do. Cut him loose.