How not to play pocket rockets (1 Viewer)

[boltonguy]

Entertaining hand from ACR 10NL Blitz 6-max fast fold. I'll show hole cards as it enhances the viewing pleasure.
Feel free to comment on my play and/or villain's.

Hero RFI to 2.5BB in LJ with 77. V in HJ 3! to 7.5BB (3x). Hero calls. Very standard stuff.

Hero likes this flop and X. V bets 2x pot! I think this is wrong on many levels. Certainly V's range is uncapped here but I have the nut advantage on this board.
If V is going to bet I think it should be a smaller size, like 1/3 pot. Look at his stack size though - 333BB! I havent played many hands with this player but she must be doing something right but I disagree with this size.

Hero isnt sure what V is doing but hopes it might be an over pair. It could also be AK that missed and is spazzing, looking to spin up FE and end the hand now.
I think that a call looks too strong here. I have the stone cold nutter butters and think that maybe a raise will possibly look like a bluff and weaker than a call.
Lately when facing two lines I've been fast-playing; if they have a strong hand they'll pay me off. If they dont, I'm probably not making more by slow playing in most instances.
Hero decides to min-click it back. This guy's so deep that maybe he'll call with an overpair and maybe even AK.
V does call.

Turn doesnt make a set with any overpair. 99 does beat me now but I dont think that is likely.
Hero jams with just over a pot sized bet. Well you know how this turns out. V calls and AA is cracked.

Scoop!

 

[DontKnowWhen]

Agree with you that V over spazzed with her pretty cards.

In General I agree with your play and would have likely played it the same. Briefly considered donking the flop. That board doesn’t really connect with a Hijack (really MP) 3bet range. And not really with yours either as the UTG open. How many sixes and sevens do you really have there (except your exact hand)? A donk would have looked like a weak lead and likely gotten raised building the pot.

As played, you got stacks in with your top set and max value. Nice scoop!

 

[Marc Hedrick]

I definitely don't agree with raising the flop here. Top set rarely wants to raise flop, and against a 2x pot bet I think it makes even less sense. Granted, there's not a lot of 7x in villian's range here so blocking top pair so hard is probably irrelevant. I still don't see a reason to raise flop. It's a monotone board, what are we scared of? Why give him a free option to fold? If he has a real hand we're getting the money anyways, and seems like we should be keeping bluffs in.

 

[OfficerLovejoy]

Yep. Never ever raising this flop.

If v has aces/kings - great, we'll get the money in on most run outs anyways.
If v has lower value like 88-QQ she now can fold easily after getting c/r when being 2x pot.
If v is bluffing/spazzing we don't get any more money if we raise. We sure might if we just call though.

Worked out here cause she has the only have she couldn't fold.

 

[Bluegrass Poker]

I read this wrong at first thinking you had AA. Was wondering why you shared it when you played it so poorly. Then I learned to read better and realized you had 77 and played it very well.

Turned out the same way regardless, but I wouldn’t have raised the flop but I’m glad you explained why you did and don’t think it was a bad move just different than what I would have done.

 

[Legend5555]

I'm pretty sure that in theory you should have no raises vs this sizing. But then again, villain shouldn't be taking this sizing on this flop either.

I think calling will generally get the job done though. Sure, it looks "strong," but you could have 88-QQ as well, and none of the 2 pair really. So you are basically only continuing to this size with overpairs and sets, and you have more overpair combos. And presumably, you'd never raise the overpairs to this size as it's so polarizing. So you should really just be calling everything you want to continue with.

 

[boltonguy]

I agree with everyone saying that in theory I should just be calling the cbet. I dont think theory ever supports a 2x cbet so V threw theory out the window ...

If he was bluffing (or is medium strength with say QQ-), he's shutting down after a call and no more money is going in IMHO as that is a huge bet for me to be calling OOP. I have played hands like this in SRP where OOP I call the massive cbet and then V X behind on turn and folds to a 1/3 pot river bet. When bluffing or medium strength these guys who take this line are giving it one big shot (although not often 2x pot, more like pot) to take it down with their air or QQ- and if called no more money is going in. Hero's call here shows them where they are at - the call is a linear (super strong) and not a polarizing response IMHO. The raise is a polarizing response and opens the door to Hero bluffing IMHO.

If the cbet was smaller I would have played this differently, likely flat calling even up to a pot sized bet. He plays theory, I play theory.

With this 2x cbet if he perceives that he is strong, then he's calling my click back and calling the turn jam. A player that bets 2x pot cbet with AA/KK on that flop isnt considering my hand or my range or anything really ... What can he possibly be thinking? Except I have AA/KK wooo hooo lets get the money in!!
With that click back on that flop I have got to look like a player trying to push back on him and spew back with a weaker hand to get a fold. He is never considering that I have a stronger hand here especially on that flop. The jam again looks spewy. How can this guy not call here??

Again unless he's bluffing with his cbet and then no more money is going in. That's why I'm not calling here.

 

[Marc Hedrick]

With this 2x cbet if he perceives that he is strong, then he's calling my click back and calling the turn jam. A player that bets 2x pot cbet with AA/KK on that flop isnt considering my hand or my range or anything really ... What can he possibly be thinking? Except I have AA/KK wooo hooo lets get the money in!!

Again unless he's bluffing with his cbet and then no more money is going in. That's why I'm not calling here.

So you don't think he would think his AA is still good on whatever turn card comes out, and that he's only putting more money in with bluffs?

If he's not considering your range at all then I especially just want to flat. In his eyes you could have any one pair hand, draw, etc.

You really think that turn card (or any) is going to make his attitude go from 'woohoo let's get the money in' to, shit I'm behind now I better slow down?

 

[Legend5555]

I agree with everyone saying that in theory I should just be calling the cbet. I dont think theory ever supports a 2x cbet so V threw theory out the window ...

If he was bluffing (or is medium strength with say QQ-), he's shutting down after a call and no more money is going in IMHO as that is a huge bet for me to be calling OOP. I have played hands like this in SRP where OOP I call the massive cbet and then V X behind on turn and folds to a 1/3 pot river bet. When bluffing or medium strength these guys who take this line are giving it one big shot (although not often 2x pot, more like pot) to take it down with their air or QQ- and if called no more money is going in. Hero's call here shows them where they are at - the call is a linear (super strong) and not a polarizing response IMHO. The raise is a polarizing response and opens the door to Hero bluffing IMHO.

If the cbet was smaller I would have played this differently, likely flat calling even up to a pot sized bet. He plays theory, I play theory.

With this 2x cbet if he perceives that he is strong, then he's calling my click back and calling the turn jam. A player that bets 2x pot cbet with AA/KK on that flop isnt considering my hand or my range or anything really ... What can he possibly be thinking? Except I have AA/KK wooo hooo lets get the money in!!
With that click back on that flop I have got to look like a player trying to push back on him and spew back with a weaker hand to get a fold. He is never considering that I have a stronger hand here especially on that flop. The jam again looks spewy. How can this guy not call here??

Again unless he's bluffing with his cbet and then no more money is going in. That's why I'm not calling here.

I mean that his bet size is polarizing. When facing polarized bets, you don't really want to be raising very often.

Sure, your raise is polarizing too. The problem is that you don't really have many bluffs here other than 89 and T9 with the bdfd. And OOP there is a decent argument to not even continuing to the 2x pot bet at 100% frequency since you have to think a decent amount of the time they aren't folding to a check raise and if you just call either them checking back turn or betting turn both kind of suck for you.

Sure the check gives you a free chance to realize, but it also means they likely have some sort of showdown hand. And most players aren't just blasting 2x pot with A high here, so it's probably pretty pair heavy.

I play a lot live nowadays, and this to me is one of the most obvious "I have an overpair" type bets. I don't hate your line honestly. But I think it's important to ground yourself in theory. Likely you are going to get all the money in no matter what against this guy given the way he played pre and on the flop. And given the stack sizes, might be necessary to raise flop. But against anyone that can hand read even a little bit, I think the call is probably the best line overall.

 

[boltonguy]

So you don't think he would think his AA is still good on whatever turn card comes out, and that he's only putting more money in with bluffs?

If he's not considering your range at all then I especially just want to flat. In his eyes you could have any one pair hand, draw, etc.

You really think that turn card (or any) is going to make his attitude go from 'woohoo let's get the money in' to, shit I'm behind now I better slow down?

I think if he is bluffing he is done putting money in no matter what with that size cbet as a call from Hero is so strong.
If he calls my click back he's so strong IMHO that I dont think there are many cards that will keep him from calling a jam