How many shuffles? (2 Viewers)

[dtxkgb]

Was curious to see how many timeyou guys shuffle the deck before a hand for your cash games/tournaments?

Came across youtube video that says the perfect amount was 7 bridge shuffles. Any pro dealers on the forum? lol

 

[JustinInMN]

Not a pro, but I do 5-7 riffles. Or a mix of riffles and overhand.

 

[Beakertwang]

Riffle riffle box riffle cut

 

[jpietrella]

7 shuffles is theoretically a randomized deck, but professional shuffling: riffle, riffle, box, riffle, cut.

 

[Josh Kifer]

3 riffles, box, one riffle, cut.

 

[Colquhoun]

Wash, riffle, riffle, box, riffle, cut.

 

[johnjohn]

riffle, riffle, riffle, dick or fart joke, cut.

 

[dtxkgb]

Anyone ever add one of these to the mix?

 

[allforcharity]

Anyone ever add one of these to the mix? View attachment 623115

I only use this when trying to reshuffle 6 decks to refill a blackjack shoe. I usually to 4-8 cuts after using this.

 

[Mojo1312]

Was curious to see how many timeyou guys shuffle the deck before a hand for your cash games/tournaments?

Came across youtube video that says the perfect amount was 7 bridge shuffles. Any pro dealers on the forum? lol

Usually 5 riffles with a three way cut or side shuffle in between. I am the only player in our group who washes the cards every third or fourth deal. Wash, three or four riffles, deal.

 

[tabletalker7]

Shuffletech.

 

[Ben8257]

I don't think I have ever played attention to how many times I shuffle... I think I average about 30! I really like them shuffled and i like a wash about once and orbit to get the action killing nastiness out of the deck! Lol

 

[SixSpeedFury]

Anyone ever add one of these to the mix? View attachment 623115

Don’t buy that. It’s junk and breaks down real fast.

 

[Beakertwang]

I don't think I have ever played attention to how many times I shuffle... I think I average about 30! I really like them shuffled and i like a wash about once and orbit to get the action killing nastiness out of the deck! Lol

It’s just basic science!

 

[Goldfish]

Box and wash most important in my opinion. Gotta mix them up.

 

[Ben8257]

Don’t buy that. It’s junk and breaks down real fast.

My shuffler is much better looking!

There in Pink at the bottom of the picture with the best dealer in town Mr. @PhilLaFond what else could you possibly need? Oh a Landshark you say... that's in the cup holder in front of me there!

 

[upNdown]

I think I average about 30!

No reason not to, if there’s two decks in play. The professional riffle riffle box riffle cut is the absolute minimum, and a compromise just to keep the cards flying quickly. If it won’t slow the game, we might as well try to do it better.

 

[Coyote]

Anyone ever add one of these to the mix? View attachment 623115

Don’t buy that. It’s junk and breaks down real fast.

I bought one for playing heads-up (it's really very useful for heads-up, using two decks of course).
Not sure about its practicality in a full table game, with a playing full time dealer, since it takes up some space (it could be placed on a table behind the dealing player though; the cut card should protect the bottom card in the flight from side table to game table, in that case).
I opened this thread https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/cheap-stand-alone-auto-shufflers.68153/#post-1373327
to see and tell everybody how long it will last.

 

[Ben8257]

No reason not to, if there’s two decks in play. The professional riffle riffle box riffle cut is the absolute minimum, and a compromise just to keep the cards flying quickly. If it won’t slow the game, we might as well try to do it better.

If there is science behind a truly shuffled deck then I say good enough. But we always play 2 decks and I don't see how extra shuffled is hurting anything other than card replacement. If you play with drinkers it seems like only 4 or 5 sessions before something is damaged anyways! A card almost always gets a crease before there is any wear evident on a deck in our game!

 

[CrazyEddie]

"Seven shuffles are needed to get a perfectly-random deck" is something of an urban legend among card players. The magic number "seven" came from a mathematical exercise, where the authors made a mathematical model of shuffling and invented a definition of what "random" meant within the context of the model. It turns out that even seven shuffles aren't enough to create perfect randomness within that model, and in fact perfect randomness can't be obtained with any number of shuffles within that model. So they further invented a definition of "sufficiently random", and determined that seven shuffles would be sufficiently random.

Again, within the model.

So "you have to shuffle seven times" is not only true only in theory, it's true only according to a particular theory which isn't necessarily valid, as it contains assumptions which may not be valid.

In the real world, riffle-riffle-box-riffle-cut will be more than sufficiently random for any practical purpose to be encountered at a card table for any game that any human being is ever going to play using a deck of cards. In some cases, it might be advisable to wash the cards occasionally, or in a few cases before each deal.

 

[PhilLaFond]

My shuffler is much better looking!
View attachment 623256
There in Pink at the bottom of the picture with the best dealer in town Mr. @PhilLaFond what else could you possibly need? Oh a Landshark you say... that's in the cup holder in front of me there!

Much better looking than the usual ruffians I see flops with, lol. And it's soooo much easier to move the game along with a dedicated dealer AND shuffler(s). Miss you both...

P.

 

[Beakertwang]

I should note, I don’t always get a good riffle. If I miss one, I might add an extra riffle or two just to be sure to get a good mix.

 

[upNdown]

In the real world, riffle-riffle-box-riffle-cut will be more than sufficiently random for any practical purpose to be encountered at a card table for any game that any human being is ever going to play using a deck of cards. In some cases, it might be advisable to wash the cards occasionally, or in a few cases before each deal.

I don't agree. Of course, "sufficiently" is subjective. But personally, I believe that people can track cards successfully through most riffle riffle box riffle cuts. And there are plenty of hamfisted shufflers who don't even get close to my perception of randomized with a mere riffle riffle box riffle cut.

 

[Colquhoun]

Adding even a moderately performed wash of the cards dramatically decreases the possible tracking of cards compared to using riffle and box alone.

 

[Frode789]

7 shuffles is theoretically a randomized deck, but professional shuffling: riffle, riffle, box, riffle, cut.

Pro shuffling always start with a wash. It's important to wash the cards properly before the riffle, riffle, box, riffle, cut. if you want it really well mixed.

That said, for home games without dedicated dealers/dealer space, washing the cards can be cumbersome due to limited space.. I try to do it when I have the decks. I instead focused on learning the others to do the rest properly at least.

 

[jpietrella]

It doesn't. Encore Boston dealers are specifically trained not to wash cards unless asked by a player.

 

[Frode789]

It doesn't. Encore Boston dealers are specifically trained not to wash cards unless asked by a player.

Ok. What I've seen on TV (EPT for example) and large tournaments I have been to in real life, did washes. But I guess some casinos etc. do not. Interesting.

 

[upNdown]

It doesn't. Encore Boston dealers are specifically trained not to wash cards unless asked by a player.

Yeah, I remember this came up in one of the NH cardrooms. The dealer said they were told not to wash the cards because it took too much time. There was one dealer there - one of the best and fastest I've ever seen - who did a mini-wash after every hand, and he was still faster than everybody else. But I believe I've seen or heard that a wash isn't really effective unless its done for 30 seconds. And as a woman once said, ain't nobody got time for that.
And honestly, as a tournament player, I'm usually annoyed when I see a dealer do a full wash. DON'T WASTE OUR PRECIOUS TIME!!!

 

[ekricket]

Ask Richard Turner. He’s blind but Bee uses him to quality test their cards by feel. He can feel moisture content and can also tell if the cards have been cut out from the frontside or backside. For years companies cut their cardstock from front to back, but they switched it up about 20 years ago. He caught it immediately (affects things like one handed shuffles) and now they make the “mandolin back” for him and other card sharps that is cut the old way.
He used to do a magic trick by mail, where you opened a new deck, selected a card, and then riffle shuffle the deck three times, then cut it and send him half. He could tell the missing card by what was out of order from the shuffling - even though they move around they maintain their order relative to each other so he could find the group that was shuffled and see which card was “out of order” Read up on him and his life if you want to know about shuffling

 

[surfik]

Anyone ever add one of these to the mix? View attachment 623115

I did. Cruel joke and waste of money.
Fun fact, when hosting cash games I had a player who attended games with his own, very professional shuffling machines. Apart from the fact, he was completely normal.