How many chances should a scammer get? (1 Viewer)

How many chances should a scammer get?

  • One and done! They knew what they were doing. Ban them!

    Votes: 77 78.6%
  • Two. Everyone deserves a second chance.

    Votes: 8 8.2%
  • Three strikes and your out. It works for baseball.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Three+ I will always forgive.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Other.

    Votes: 13 13.3%

  • Total voters
    98

trigs

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In light of the recent scamming that took place during TCR sale (i.e. people making multiple orders using different addresses to circumvent the percentage limitations), I was curious as to what everyone's opinion on scammers should be. I chose the term scammer as I couldn't think of a better descriptor to use, and clearly they were trying to "trick" TCR into selling them more chips than they were allowed to buy.

So what do you guys think?

EDIT: I should clarify that by ban I meant banned from future TCR sales, not banned from the PCF altogether, but if you feel like a complete ban is warranted, that please state that in the comments.

EDIT 2: I had no skin in this. I did not participate in the TCR sale and this is not "sour grapes" on my part. Just curious what most people think should be the outcome.

(reworded "scam" to "trick")
 
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Advantage chipper/chipping?


Douchey but not forum ban worthy IMO but yeah, should be banned from TCR sales.

Edit: clarification
 
Thats not scamming. A "scam" is trying to steal something of value, ie you pay him and he doesnt ship, or you pay and he doesnt do the promised work. People always have and always will find ways to work loopholes in any system. Thats why I pay a tax professional to get me as many of those loopholes as possible.
 
Call it whatever you want. Scamming. Loopholes. etc. It's cheating, plain and simple. Jim sets up the rules that he feels make sense and hopefully give more people a fair opportunity to get some chips at a good price. If someone actively does things to circumvent those rules to get an advantage, they cheated. End of story. And if I were Jim, I'd put them on the naughty list and refuse to sell to them anymore.
 
Not sure how that recent "scamming" on the chiproom sale had been proven, certainly there would always be a few individuals that do stuff like that. I think if Jim found out, he would ban them from future sales, which would be appropriate. But I see a bigger problem with flippers that only want to profit. It's not a perfect world and paypal screwed me over on a set that said I had purchased. Oh well, maybe it's time to stop buying chips.
 
Not sure how that recent "scamming" on the chiproom sale had been proven, certainly there would always be a few individuals that do stuff like that. I think if Jim found out, he would ban them from future sales, which would be appropriate.

Jim was the one who noticed and announced this.
 
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Thats not scamming. A "scam" is trying to steal something of value, ie you pay him and he doesnt ship, or you pay and he doesnt do the promised work. People always have and always will find ways to work loopholes in any system. Thats why I pay a tax professional to get me as many of those loopholes as possible.
It's not quite scamming, but it is scummy and against the spirit what this community is (mostly was) about.

Not ban worthy, except for tcr sales, but certainly a douche.
 
Is it really any different than "order combining"? I dont see anyone complaining about people forming group buys so the person placing the order can get the amount of a specific chip they want. It works great unless YOU miss out wanted chips because someone else grabbed them from a "group buy". Jims rules were "per household". If people used multiple addresses, then thats nothing new. If Jim catches some of that activity and wants to take action, it completely on him. His sale, his rules. Anyone else complaining or crying about what "someone else did" is really just a lot of sour-grapes.
 
Is it really any different than "order combining"? I dont see anyone complaining about people forming group buys so the person placing the order can get the amount of a specific chip they want. It works great unless YOU miss out wanted chips because someone else grabbed them from a "group buy". Jims rules were "per household". If people used multiple addresses, then thats nothing new. If Jim catches some of that activity and wants to take action, it completely on him. His sale, his rules. Anyone else complaining or crying about what "someone else did" is really just a lot of sour-grapes.
Based on how you're reacting to this, I'm starting to think you're the person who ordered from two different addresses. In the group buys you're mentioning, everybody is getting the chips they want, and it actually stops people from flipping their extras. When you buy multiple full orders to one address you are almost definitely planning on flipping chips, and you're circumventing the established rules. By doing that, you are preventing people who genuinely want sets from getting them, and then trying to take advantage of them for a profit.
 
I think if Jim found out, he would ban them from future sales,
I certainly would, if I were Jim.
But as a member of the community? Meh. It’s just another example of how money is continuing to take over the hobby. And I’m over it.
A “perfect” 2,000 chip order costs something like $5500. I’m gonna go ahead and make the assumption that $5500 is a lot more than the majority of people on this site are willing to spend. And so, if the majority of people are already priced out of the first two thousand, why should I care if somebody or somebodies double or triple dip on a second or third 2,000?
I dunno. I’ve gotten cynical.
 
Thats not scamming. A "scam" is trying to steal something of value, ie you pay him and he doesnt ship, or you pay and he doesnt do the promised work. People always have and always will find ways to work loopholes in any system. Thats why I pay a tax professional to get me as many of those loopholes as possible.
scam (noun): a dishonest scheme; a fraud. (verb): to swindle.
 
Based on how you're reacting to this, I'm starting to think you're the person who ordered from two different addresses. ....
LOL, I can show you my order from Jim, Its a grand total of 20 $100 chips, placed the next day. PLease re-read my posts. I never said I encouraged or endorsed multiple orders. I said it always has and always will happen on anything that has restrictive ordering rules like this. I also said its completely up to Jim how he wants to move forward. His sale, his prerogative. I dont care if he ignores it or bans them from future sales.
 
scam (noun): a dishonest scheme; a fraud. (verb): to swindle.
exactly, this isnt "fraud" and isnt a "swindle". Nobody stole anything from anyone. Apparently some people circumvented rules of a sale. Bad form? yes. Illegal, no. Scams are illegal.
 
exactly, this isnt "fraud" and isnt a "swindle". Nobody stole anything from anyone. Apparently some people circumvented rules of a sale. Bad form? yes. Illegal, no. Scams are illegal.
You ignored the first definition of the word fyi. And like I said in the OP, I chose the word scam knowing it's not the best word to use but didn't know what else to call it. According to "a dishonest scheme" it seems to fit the bill though.
 
Is it a scam when someone does a lottery giveaway for sought after chips in the classifieds and multiple people enter on behalf of a single chipper? Should they be banned as well?
I don't know. Good question. It does seem to be "a dishonest scheme" to win the chips imho.
 
Paulson doesn’t sell to the public unless you trick them and circumnavigate their companies policies. How is this different?
I mean...its different in the sense we aren't buying from Paulson. The entire point of TCR sales are to provide the community with affordable Paulson sets/chips. It kind of goes against the spirit of what Jim is trying to accomplish when somebody attempts to circumvent the system for what is almost certainly a personal financial gain later. Just my 2 cents, ELE -Everybody love everybody!!
 
In light of the recent scamming that took place during TCR sale (i.e. people making multiple orders using different addresses to circumvent the percentage limitations), I was curious as to what everyone's opinion on scammers should be. I chose the term scammer as I couldn't think of a better descriptor to use, and clearly they were trying to scam TCR into selling them more chips than they were allowed to buy.

So what do you guys think?

EDIT: I should clarify that by ban I meant banned from future TCR sales, not banned from the PCF altogether, but if you feel like a complete ban is warranted, that please state that in the comments.

EDIT 2: I had no skin in this. I did not participate in the TCR sale and this is not "sour grapes" on my part. Just curious what most people think should be the outcome.
Where can I find this post about the recent TCR scamming issue ?
 
What constitutes a household? If you have your brother, uncle, cousin, and friend who all live at different addresses to purchase chips using their own PayPal, would that be offside?
 
I certainly would, if I were Jim.
But as a member of the community? Meh. It’s just another example of how money is continuing to take over the hobby. And I’m over it.
A “perfect” 2,000 chip order costs something like $5500. I’m gonna go ahead and make the assumption that $5500 is a lot more than the majority of people on this site are willing to spend. And so, if the majority of people are already priced out of the first two thousand, why should I care if somebody or somebodies double or triple dip on a second or third 2,000?
I dunno. I’ve gotten cynical.
interesting point of the majority of the people not being able to afford a perfect 2000 chip set, and it makes sense.
 
interesting point of the majority of the people not being able to afford a perfect 2000 chip set, and it makes sense.
And to take it a step further, why 2,000? If the intent is to give the most people a chance at a decent set, surely that number should be 1,000? I don’t know how Jim got to the 2,000 number - it’s been the standard since my first TCR sale (horseshoe Cleveland) but it’s really way more chips than anybody “needs.” I suspect it has a lot to do with the percentages, and that it actually functions to cause people to buy more chips than they otherwise would.
But bottom line, Jim’s sale, Jim’s rules, so Jim is the judge and jury for any “scammers.”
 
There’s a significant assumption.
Maybe it's not the "entire point" of TCR sales, but the percentage limits in place are there for that exact reason. If Jim was just out to make as much money as possible, he'd charge more per chip and have no limitations at all.

EDIT: No, you are actually correct too. The limitations are also probably there so he's not "stuck" with a bunch of chips that no one wants to buy by themselves also. But it's still the case that Jim could remove all limitations and charge a lot more per chip if his sole goal was to make the most money. He is still trying to get more complete chips sets out to the most people as well.
 

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