How important is chip flatness really? (1 Viewer)

myj

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I’m new to poker chips, and I don’t actually have any in hand yet. Because of that, I can only take the word of people online and YouTube videos.
There seems to be a big importance on the flatness of chips. Everyone strives to get the flattest chips, but how important is it really? Is it purely just so your stacks are stable? If your set has just mediocre flatness (for example Monaco Casinos), does that even affect how they feel if you’re just planning on having stacks 20 chips high?
 
Flatness might be the most important thing. Forget 20 high, you might have problems stacking anything over 10 high with cheap chips.
You might not even realize how nice it is to have stable stacks if all you’ve ever played with is wobbly dice chips. I didn’t. But it was a really nice surprise.
 
From a collecting standpoint, warping is really tilting especially when the stacks don’t sit evenly across denominations. From a playing standpoint, I think it only becomes a real problem if the stacks are so wobbly that they fall over easily. I have a few denominations in a couple of my sets that have some warping but nobody except me has noticed. None of the guys that come to my house are chippers so they are not really inspecting the chips that much. And I suspect that even if I told them, they would not care.
 
That said, most chips are flat. Responsible sellers will alert you if their wares need flattening.

And the chips that aren’t flat are pretty easily corrected using the tools and methods described in great detail in other threads, unless they are so far gone that the problem should be visible in sales photos.

When buying, you want ideally to see edge photos stacked and/or in racks in addition to samples of chip faces.
 
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15734120453927862174138175488650.jpg

Flat is better
 
That said, most chips are flat. Responsible sellers will alert you if their wares need flattening.

And the chips that aren’t flat are pretty easily corrected using the tools and methods described in great detail in other threads, unless they are so far gone that the problem should be visible in sales photos.

When buying, you want ideally to see edge photos stacked and/or in racks in addition to samples of chip faces.
Man oh man do I disagree with the majority of this statement.

1) of real clay chips that we have bought, very very few have been trully flat. I would say 70% of the Paulsons I have touched have had some degree of warpage.

(Best way to test is to take a barrel of chips and sit them on a dense counter like granite, tap the top chip in the edge all the way around, if it moves even ever so slightly... there are warped chips in that barrel) if they wobble at all hold the barrel up to a light or use sun light between your thumb and index finger and look between the chips, any light comight through at all has warped chips in that barrel.
20220524_161415.jpg

(Brand new from paulson,see the light between) We recently bought 2 racks of the Brand New From Paulson RPC chips in 43mm and lots of warped chips straight from the factory. Not terrible, but definitely enough for the trained eye to catch. How about the unsed secondary chips in our recent Indiana Grand sale
20220524_153449.jpg

(That's the coveted secondary $1k I am paying $30 a chip for... warped!)

2) I absolutely WISH sellers would be honest about warpage, sadly I would say maybe 10 - 20% max ever mentions it and honestly I think most people don't even know it is a thing so I try to give the Benefit of a doubt on that one. Just recently there have been more threads discussing this issue and finally there are some members who have started to mention "flatness" in their sales ads, but it still has a long ways to go!

(As mentioned above, get as many "from above" pictures as you can! Unfortunately loose racks will also allow space between chips and make it appear as though they are warped, so unfortunately this is not a 100% tell tale sign)

3) using means and methods shown here, absolutely you can fix a slight warpage issue. But there are chips that are beyond repair. Usually the forst or second time through the oven or in a heat blanket you are going to get the majority of what that chip is willing to move and often that is enough especially on softer chips like non leaded paulsons. But on more dense chips like leaded THCs, BCCs and definitely Scrown TRKs... good luck. The denser chips can take more heat for longer periods but you have to be careful when messing around as it doesn't take a ton to "over do it" and absolutely ruin a chip. Sure there are helpful tips here but it is absolutely a learning curve. Members have been having far better success with the heat blanket methods as opposed to conventional ovens (which I still use, but I have flattened thousands of chips and even I still have to be very careful!)

Warped chips absolutely suck! Sure if it's not bad it is barely noticeable and most players will never have a clue. Those chips are probably not worth messing with, but when you get the really bad ones... man you all but want to throw them in the trash rather than spending hours and hours getting them back to resonable.

Now if I am buying $2 - $3 RHCs I don't mind so much and actually have come to expect them to be warped... but when you are spending $40 - $50 a chip on rare stuff it trully boils my blood that people aren't honest on the warpage issues. Some of them are really really bad, if they are leaded... again best of luck with that! It takes a Long long long time to get them back to close, and often if you have to run them more than 4 - 5 times in the oven or heat blanket you can start to push the "mold/hat and canes" back into the clay

Trully flat chips are very difficult to find, what level is acceptable on warpage is up to the owner, this is NOT only true to clay, ceramics have warpage issues as well but not typically as bad as they are much more dense. But I would say they majority of Clay chips have some warpage unless it has been dealt with by a prior owner and even then over time they bounce back... very rarely do they stay flat.

Just another "fun part" of our hobby.
 
Man oh man do I disagree with the majority of this statement.

1) of real clay chips that we have bought, very very few have been trully flat. I would say 70% of the Paulsons I have touched have had some degree of warpage.

(Best way to test is to take a barrel of chips and sit them on a dense counter like granite, tap the top chip in the edge all the way around, if it moves even ever so slightly... there are warped chips in that barrel) if they wobble at all hold the barrel up to a light or use sun light between your thumb and index finger and look between the chips, any light comight through at all has warped chips in that barrel.
View attachment 990005
(Brand new from paulson,see the light between) We recently bought 2 racks of the Brand New From Paulson RPC chips in 43mm and lots of warped chips straight from the factory. Not terrible, but definitely enough for the trained eye to catch. How about the unsed secondary chips in our recent Indiana Grand sale
View attachment 990006
(That's the coveted secondary $1k I am paying $30 a chip for... warped!)

2) I absolutely WISH sellers would be honest about warpage, sadly I would say maybe 10 - 20% max ever mentions it and honestly I think most people don't even know it is a thing so I try to give the Benefit of a doubt on that one. Just recently there have been more threads discussing this issue and finally there are some members who have started to mention "flatness" in their sales ads, but it still has a long ways to go!

(As mentioned above, get as many "from above" pictures as you can! Unfortunately loose racks will also allow space between chips and make it appear as though they are warped, so unfortunately this is not a 100% tell tale sign)

3) using means and methods shown here, absolutely you can fix a slight warpage issue. But there are chips that are beyond repair. Usually the forst or second time through the oven or in a heat blanket you are going to get the majority of what that chip is willing to move and often that is enough especially on softer chips like non leaded paulsons. But on more dense chips like leaded THCs, BCCs and definitely Scrown TRKs... good luck. The denser chips can take more heat for longer periods but you have to be careful when messing around as it doesn't take a ton to "over do it" and absolutely ruin a chip. Sure there are helpful tips here but it is absolutely a learning curve. Members have been having far better success with the heat blanket methods as opposed to conventional ovens (which I still use, but I have flattened thousands of chips and even I still have to be very careful!)

Warped chips absolutely suck! Sure if it's not bad it is barely noticeable and most players will never have a clue. Those chips are probably not worth messing with, but when you get the really bad ones... man you all but want to throw them in the trash rather than spending hours and hours getting them back to resonable.

Now if I am buying $2 - $3 RHCs I don't mind so much and actually have come to expect them to be warped... but when you are spending $40 - $50 a chip on rare stuff it trully boils my blood that people aren't honest on the warpage issues. Some of them are really really bad, if they are leaded... again best of luck with that! It takes a Long long long time to get them back to close, and often if you have to run them more than 4 - 5 times in the oven or heat blanket you can start to push the "mold/hat and canes" back into the clay

Trully flat chips are very difficult to find, what level is acceptable on warpage is up to the owner, this is NOT only true to clay, ceramics have warpage issues as well but not typically as bad as they are much more dense. But I would say they majority of Clay chips have some warpage unless it has been dealt with by a prior owner and even then over time they bounce back... very rarely do they stay flat.

Just another "fun part" of our hobby.
Yup I’ve got bunches of brand new 39mm yellow RPC that have a slight warpage.
No more bricks out of Paulson
 
Yup I’ve got bunches of brand new 39mm yellow RPC that have a slight warpage.
No more bricks out of Paulson
And again they are a much sifter formula, they flatten very quick! Literally 1 cycle of 11 - 12 minutes @ 150° F , let them cool at room temperature for 2 hours and those will be almost perfectly flat... but still nothing like the old school super leaded bricks of the old days. Just another one of those "joys" as a clay owner... just like the folks that say new RHCs don't wear quickly... that one almost makes me roll on the floor laughing. Believe what you want, but sorry... they do indeed wear down and round off and it doesn't take very long at all. If it bothers you that much then go for ceramics... they wear too but it takes much much longer!
 
Man oh man do I disagree with the majority of this statement.

1) of real clay chips that we have bought, very very few have been trully flat. I would say 70% of the Paulsons I have touched have had some degree of warpage.

(Best way to test is to take a barrel of chips and sit them on a dense counter like granite, tap the top chip in the edge all the way around, if it moves even ever so slightly... there are warped chips in that barrel) if they wobble at all hold the barrel up to a light or use sun light between your thumb and index finger and look between the chips, any light comight through at all has warped chips in that barrel.
View attachment 990005
(Brand new from paulson,see the light between) We recently bought 2 racks of the Brand New From Paulson RPC chips in 43mm and lots of warped chips straight from the factory. Not terrible, but definitely enough for the trained eye to catch. How about the unsed secondary chips in our recent Indiana Grand sale
View attachment 990006
(That's the coveted secondary $1k I am paying $30 a chip for... warped!)

2) I absolutely WISH sellers would be honest about warpage, sadly I would say maybe 10 - 20% max ever mentions it and honestly I think most people don't even know it is a thing so I try to give the Benefit of a doubt on that one. Just recently there have been more threads discussing this issue and finally there are some members who have started to mention "flatness" in their sales ads, but it still has a long ways to go!

(As mentioned above, get as many "from above" pictures as you can! Unfortunately loose racks will also allow space between chips and make it appear as though they are warped, so unfortunately this is not a 100% tell tale sign)

3) using means and methods shown here, absolutely you can fix a slight warpage issue. But there are chips that are beyond repair. Usually the forst or second time through the oven or in a heat blanket you are going to get the majority of what that chip is willing to move and often that is enough especially on softer chips like non leaded paulsons. But on more dense chips like leaded THCs, BCCs and definitely Scrown TRKs... good luck. The denser chips can take more heat for longer periods but you have to be careful when messing around as it doesn't take a ton to "over do it" and absolutely ruin a chip. Sure there are helpful tips here but it is absolutely a learning curve. Members have been having far better success with the heat blanket methods as opposed to conventional ovens (which I still use, but I have flattened thousands of chips and even I still have to be very careful!)

Warped chips absolutely suck! Sure if it's not bad it is barely noticeable and most players will never have a clue. Those chips are probably not worth messing with, but when you get the really bad ones... man you all but want to throw them in the trash rather than spending hours and hours getting them back to resonable.

Now if I am buying $2 - $3 RHCs I don't mind so much and actually have come to expect them to be warped... but when you are spending $40 - $50 a chip on rare stuff it trully boils my blood that people aren't honest on the warpage issues. Some of them are really really bad, if they are leaded... again best of luck with that! It takes a Long long long time to get them back to close, and often if you have to run them more than 4 - 5 times in the oven or heat blanket you can start to push the "mold/hat and canes" back into the clay

Trully flat chips are very difficult to find, what level is acceptable on warpage is up to the owner, this is NOT only true to clay, ceramics have warpage issues as well but not typically as bad as they are much more dense. But I would say they majority of Clay chips have some warpage unless it has been dealt with by a prior owner and even then over time they bounce back... very rarely do they stay flat.

Just another "fun part" of our hobby.

I’ve bought/sold about 20,000 chips. I’ve had to flatten at most 300 of them. That’s less than 2%.

All were salvageable, using Bessey clamps in a low oven.

But I suppose if one lots of old casino chips with significant wear or storage issues, as opposed to excellent/ near mint / minty ones, then there will be more work to do. Or if one does not look closely at sellers’ pics to weed out bad lots.
 
Bad warping is obviously a problem. Like these: Sad, useless chips unfortunately beyond repair.
20201128155027__MG_6897.jpg
20201214124858__MG_7018.jpg

20201128154925__MG_6893.jpg

However many chips do have slight warping and still plays just fine. Like @Ben8257 says, many chips does in fact have some slight warping even straight from the factory. Minor warping doesn't really bother me, and it doesnt impact stackability up to 20 chips. Examples here of what I would consider ok:

20201214123108__MG_6981.jpg
20201214123053__MG_6979.jpg


20210326121131__MG_7753.jpg

Definitely some slight warping in all of the above. The whites are the worst, but also still just within reason IMO and i think they can still play just fine. However the best is obviously completely flat chips, like these.
20210326121446__MG_7769.jpg
 
Bad warping is obviously a problem. Like these: Sad, useless chips unfortunately beyond repair.
View attachment 990027View attachment 990028
View attachment 990026
However many chips do have slight warping and still plays just fine. Like @Ben8257 says, many chips does in fact have some slight warping even straight from the factory. Minor warping doesn't really bother me, and it doesnt impact stackability up to 20 chips. Examples here of what I would consider ok:

View attachment 990029View attachment 990030

View attachment 990031
Definitely some slight warping in all of the above. The whites are the worst, but also still just within reason IMO and i think they can still play just fine. However the best is obviously completely flat chips, like these.
View attachment 990032

Your first few pics do indeed show terrible warping... But surely that degree of problem would be obvious from any responsible sales photos. If someone sees chips in that condition, imagines that they are going to stack neatly, and buys them anyway, that’s as much on the buyer as anyone.

As to minor vs. major warping: If a gap is so slight as to be undetectable except when building absurd towers of 100 chips to show off, 99% of players are fine with that. (Unfortunately, 99% of players don’t even notice that they are playing with non-dice chips.) I rarely have anyone in my games keeping stacks greater than 40. Most experienced players stick with 20-chip stacks if only to avoid knocking over their own chips at a crowded full ring table, and also to make for easy counting at a glance.

In any event, getting back to the OPs original concern: Worry about stuff if it actually happens more than once in a blue moon. Look carefully at sellers’ photos, and ask for additional pics or assurances if perfect pitch is truly a priority.

It really should not get in the way of your new chipping interest.
 
Having gotten new chips from paulson, storing them, then noticing some minor warpage, I really believe proper storage is the key from the start. And new chips need time to cure, just like other things , asphalt, concrete etc.... Maybe you get new chips, store them in a stack with weight on top to keep them flat while they cure. How long ? no idea ,
 

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