How Handle Online Cash?

Tomis

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My home game has been a little shaken up since COVID and since were have not been playing in person, I have been "hosting" tournaments and occasionally some cash games through poker stars. Its been pretty simple as I have been using PayPal to handle payments and withdrawals. I know PayPal isn't the most secure method, but I haven't really seen a problem with this as I am personal friends with everyone in the game. But now my friends are wondering if their friends can join which I do not know. I originally turned down the idea of new players but they are insisting. And I don't want the game to break soo... I have been scammed for 4 figures on PayPal before, so with these "new" players, I don't fully feel comfortable using Paypal. All it takes is one upset guy to do a chargeback and whoosh the games gone. Zelle seems like my best option, the only concern is that bank might think its suspicious activity. Or would the bank even care, Having funds consistently in and out? I am thinking about switching to POKERBros so that I can run tournaments and cash games without me having to moderate. That's just where my heads at. How do you guys handle it?
 

DarkHelmet55

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I use Venmo. Put in an initial transfer of money there and have just been going off that. Seems like all these new players have that. I dont bother even transferring it back to my bank now. My winnings just help my cushion. Players bust in a tournament and Venmo me right away. I keep track on a spreadsheet to ensure i am not shorted but never had a problem. The guys that vouch for other guys are responsible if I don't get the new guys transfer, but like i said I havent had an issue yet.
 

JRald07

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I think best option would be having your friends pay for them. Let them deal with that since they are the ones bringing them into the game.

I personally use Zelle since it goes directly into my bank account, feels more chargeback/dispute proof that way. I may be wrong but so far no issues. The only issues I've seen regarding "suspicious activity" were cases of multiple payments sent to me in a small timeframe by the same sender.

As far as Venmo/Paypal there is a possibility of a chargeback with both of them.
 

Tomis

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Zelle seems like the best option. I want to completely avoid chargebacks and friends having to cover debts, I feel that since I'm "hosting" I take responsibility for everyone that plays at the end of the day. The only problem is I don't want my bank to freak out. Were you able to resolve all the "suspicious activity"?
 

JRald07

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Zelle seems like the best option. I want to completely avoid chargebacks and friends having to cover debts, I feel that since I'm "hosting" I take responsibility for everyone that plays at the end of the day. The only problem is I don't want my bank to freak out. Were you able to resolve all the "suspicious activity"?
Never had an issue with my bank. The issue was on their end. They had to call the bank to confirm some information and that was that! :)
 

Tomis

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“All it takes is one upset guy to do a chargeback”

excuse my ignorance but what does this mean?

This means that they send a payment, say through PayPal. They lose and they are upset, sad, and a jerk. They call their bank and say that said payment that they sent to you was fraud and that they never authorized it. The Bank no questions asked then refunds the payment, taking it out of your account and you have no way to fight it.
 

JRReynolds6181

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Wow. You’d have to be a serious douche nozzle to do something like that. You really don’t trust your friends enough to vouch for someone not doing that?
 
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Tomis

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It's better to be safe than sorry, more worried about the friends of friends. But all it takes is one guy whos down on his luck and is not using his brain to the full %10. People do dumb things when they're desperate, here's to hoping.
 

Taghkanic

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Couple of things which might help reduce the frequency of transactions:

1) Require a minimum deposit amount from players which is enough multiples of your buyin that they won’t have to reload so often (say, 5-10 buyins);

2) Make payouts only on the last day of the month, unless someone has an excessive balance above a certain level (say, 20 buyins)?
 

Taghkanic

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Oh, and no one plays on credit. If the money is not in your account before game time, they shouldn’t be allowed to play.
 

mattross1313

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Luckily the UK aren't as strict so I have the advantage of playing P'Stars for 'real' money, though they do charge 10% rake on home games which is mad!!
I like @Taghkanic 's idea of getting folks to submit a few buyins ahead of time. This covers any urgent rebuys, and would also give some confidence that any new players are serious enough to play.

You’d have to be a serious douche nozzle to do something like that.
This good Sir, is an excellent description. I shall be using this in the future :LOL: :laugh:
 

Taghkanic

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This covers any urgent rebuys, and would also give some confidence that any new players are serious enough to play.

The host of a private online game I play in several times a week (continuation of a live game which used to run twice a month) does not allow deposits of less than $200, and stops accepting deposits an hour before gametime. And encourages people to keep a balance at least that high.

This is for rebuy games which vary in prices of $20, $35, $50 or $100 depending on the night, so a $200 balance might even be low for a bad, splashy player.

Player pool is about 30 people, with typically 16-24 participating on any given night.

This, he says, makes things much less hectic for him as a host. Still, his phone must be blowing up all day, even with these rules.

If it were me, I’d make it minimum $300 deposit at a time, and only do cashouts in bulk 1-2 times per month, unless someone’s balance exceeds $1K. I wouldn’t want to carry too much at a time in case of a SNAFU (say, the host’s account got locked).
 
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BearMetal

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Have your friends cough up for their friends?
Completely agree. This is what I do for my online game. I make the trusted players vouch for the newb they want to bring. If the newb tries something fishy, the trusted player is on the hook.
 

BearMetal

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As far as Venmo/Paypal there is a possibility of a chargeback with both of them.

I thought this is only possible when using a credit card to make the payment. If they use their bank account through PP or Venmo, can there be a chargeback?

I feel that since I'm "hosting" I take responsibility for everyone that plays at the end of the day.

In a home game, yes, you're the bank. But with everything being digital and remote right now, I don't think it's your responsibility to cover if some shmuck tries to rip you off. Everyone should be thankful that you're providing such a great service during these difficult times. My players bust my balls regularly and give me lots of shit, but I know they really appreciate all of the effort and work I put into hosting the weekly game.
 

JRald07

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I thought this is only possible when using a credit card to make the payment. If they use their bank account through PP or Venmo, can there be a chargeback?

Not quite sure on the specifics but I have been burned through both Venmo and Paypal claiming "fraud" when I was receiving the money. Apparently all it takes is the sender to claim the money being sent was done by them.
 

Tomis

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I thought this is only possible when using a credit card to make the payment. If they use their bank account through PP or Venmo, can there be a chargeback?

Not quite sure on the specifics but I have been burned through both Venmo and Paypal claiming "fraud" when I was receiving the money. Apparently all it takes is the sender to claim the money being sent was done by them.

A majority of Paypal users use debit/credit cards and both of those all you have to do it call your bank and claim fraud. Debit cards are a little more complicated. But the fees on PayPal are ridiculous, and good luck finding anyone wanting to pay the friends and family fee happily. And people can refund businesses any services right in the app. No good
 

Redcard71

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Venmo. My friend Mike always hosts, using Pokernow.club. I have long been friends with most of the players. Everyone is known to him personally, though some of us only know each other through the interface. Mike collects, and then later remits, via Venmo. Never had a problem.
 
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