How fast do you pick up on tells (1 Viewer)

[djkahled]

Question for the more experienced players: When playing live how fast can you pick up tells? How accurate are you?

For me a noob it seems like playing odds seems generally better than bluffing or trying to tell bluffs from others. Especially when playing against other new poker players.

 

[surfik]

Slow, and it's the right way
Tells might be misleading

I meet young guy at the tournament. He played tight, but when he bet his hands were shaking, everybody picked up on that and folded. Every time.
I talked with him during break. Turn down that he was playing live for the first time and was really nervous.

 

[Legend5555]

Tells are generally overrated. They exist, and can certainly be helpful, but MUCH more important is to learn good fundamental hand reading based on betting action.

 

[buzzmonkey]

Tells are pretty much only useful to me when playing with the same person/people often and after many sessions.

 

[DrStrange]

The best "tells" come from bets, raises, calls and checks. Not how the chips are handled, but the actual action. Put the hand together so far and prosper.

As for twitchy hands, gum chewing, chip fondling, pupil watching and the rest - - - mostly it is garbage for the typical player. No doubt the best "readers" can do magic. The rest of us need a lot of observation to figure out what secrets people divulge by mistake.

And just when you think you know a long term villain, something strange will happen in their lives to throw everything off.

DrStrange

 

[detroitdad]

Tells are generally overrated. They exist, and can certainly be helpful, but MUCH more important is to learn good fundamental hand reading based on betting action.

The best "tells" come from bets, raises, calls and checks. Not how the chips are handled, but the actual action. Put the hand together so far and prosper.

As for twitchy hands, gum chewing, chip fondling, pupil watching and the rest - - - mostly it is garbage for the typical player. No doubt the best "readers" can do magic. The rest of us need a lot of observation to figure out what secrets people divulge by mistake.

And just when you think you know a long term villain, something strange will happen in their lives to throw everything off.

DrStrange

this...........

When @K1100lt bets he probably has quads

@WedgeRock is in the hand, I'm in the hand.........easy peasy.

 

[ekricket]

The best "tells" come from bets, raises, calls and checks. Not how the chips are handled, but the actual action. Put the hand together so far and prosper.

The language of poker. Sometimes I have the conversation around in my head - when someone bets I think he says “I like my hand”. Then I can construct a conversation between the participants, and look for “comments” that don’t fit into the narrative.

 

[surfik]

Focus on betsizing, rest will come naturally.... or not

 

[detroitdad]

I play a lot of split pot, and split hand type games. There are tells if people are shooting for half the pot.

 

[Highli99]

You’ll make a lot more money learning the fundamentals of poker and hand reading, compared to tells. However, there is absolutely an edge for experienced live players. Read Zach Ellwoods books if this topic interests you.

 

[djkahled]

Focus on betsizing, rest will come naturally.... or not

Is there a way to outplay new players, that have no idea about strategy, other than playing the odds? Because people I have played with place random bets or limp all the time which makes it hard to tell if they have anything good or are just bluffing with 10 high or something

 

[ekricket]

Is there a way to outplay new players, that have no idea about strategy, other than playing the odds? Because people I have played with place random bets or limp all the time which makes it hard to tell if they have anything good or are just bluffing with 10 high or something

Cash or tourney?

 

[djkahled]

Cash or tourney?

Just a casual tourney home game!

 

[surfik]

Is there a way to outplay new players, that have no idea about strategy, other than playing the odds? Because people I have played with place random bets or limp all the time which makes it hard to tell if they have anything good or are just bluffing with 10 high or something

I would suggest not to bluff a lot because players like that will not lay down big pairs on dangerous boards. Upside is that you can extract value more often if you hit strong. They also pay more, holding small or medium pair, just to see board and hit sets.

 

[grebe]

It amazes me how many people give tells willingly that are not even hidden. One that happened recently playing PLO: I had top 2 but with a draw to the nuts....not a good hand, but everybody checked to me, so I bet at it. Guy next to me looked visibly disgusted...I mean, sitting there, in pain. He puts out calling chips, but looked like he wanted to fold. Everybody else folds. River is a blank...he quickly checks...I make a bet of less than pot so it looks like value, he folds. He had middle set and was absolutely convinced he was bad. He wore it for everyone to see.

Those are easy to pick up.

 

[grebe]

Is there a way to outplay new players, that have no idea about strategy, other than playing the odds? Because people I have played with place random bets or limp all the time which makes it hard to tell if they have anything good or are just bluffing with 10 high or something

Yes. Play better ranges than they do, and value bet them into the grave. That's the easiest poker there is.

 

[djkahled]

It amazes me how many people give tells willingly that are not even hidden. One that happened recently playing PLO: I had top 2 but with a draw to the nuts....not a good hand, but everybody checked to me, so I bet at it. Guy next to me looked visibly disgusted...I mean, sitting there, in pain. He puts out calling chips, but looked like he wanted to fold. Everybody else folds. River is a blank...he quickly checks...I make a bet of less than pot so it looks like value, he folds. He had middle set and was absolutely convinced he was bad. He wore it for everyone to see.

Those are easy to pick up.

Yeah but that sounds like a tilted player. I mean wonder if getting tells out of people that are not tilted is even doable consistently

 

[wmaddix]

I wouldn't call myself an experienced player, but here's another example of a tell from the last time I played live.

I flop a set, but there are two spades are on the board. On the turn, a third spade hits. Both villains saw that third spade and immediately needed to look at their hole cards. That told me they didn't have the flush already. If they did, they wouldn't have needed to look at their cards again. They would have already known. It was relatively obviously they were checking to see which suit / how big their black cards were. Because that suddenly had become relevant.

This tell probably only works for rank beginners, but it's one example of why you should mentally recite your cards so you remember them and don't have to check. (Both so you don't exhibit the tell and so you can be watching around the table to see who does.)

 

[Frogzilla]

I am useless at picking up tells and gave up. I’m there to chill out and have fun, and studying eye movement and posture isn’t fun for me

 

[upNdown]

I've heard a couple of experts / pros, say that tells should usually only be tie-breakers. So even if you think you've seen something, rebuild the hand, ignoring that, and decide what you should do. If it's close, then go with the tell.
Makes sense for a lot of situations.

 

[ekricket]

I wouldn't call myself an experienced player, but here's another example of a tell from the last time I played live.

I flop a set, but there are two spades are on the board. On the turn, a third spade hits. Both villains saw that third spade and immediately needed to look at their hole cards. That told me they didn't have the flush already. If they did, they wouldn't have needed to look at their cards again. They would have already known. It was relatively obviously they were checking to see which suit / how big their black cards were. Because that suddenly had become relevant.

This tell probably only works for rank beginners, but it's one example of why you should mentally recite your cards so you remember them and don't have to check. (Both so you don't exhibit the tell and so you can be watching around the table to see who does.)

When I know I make the flush on the third card I check my hole cards just for this. Putting out a false tell for those looking. Costs me nothing and may get me some callers. Be very aware of the level of player your playing with if you are using tells, the story about the nervous first timer above illustrates this in a different way

 

[upNdown]

The best "tells" come from bets, raises, calls and checks. Not how the chips are handled, but the actual action. Put the hand together so far and prosper.

I don't waste time putting out a lot of false physical tells. But I will purposely play a hand differently that I played it the last time, trying to catch a guy who's paying attention. And that's profitable more often then you'd think.

 

[jr8719]

Tells are generally overrated. They exist, and can certainly be helpful, but MUCH more important is to learn good fundamental hand reading based on betting action.

Agree that a solid knowledge of the fundamentals are integral, but I wouldn't call tells overrated, personally.

I've won some of my biggest pots by simply looking at my opponent, analysing their breathing, facial expressions and mannerisms — and just going with my gut read as to whether they "have it" or not.

But that's just me. If people want to spend more time reading up on GTO and the like instead of the psychological and mental aspects of the game, that's fine by me.

 

[Legend5555]

Is there a way to outplay new players, that have no idea about strategy, other than playing the odds? Because people I have played with place random bets or limp all the time which makes it hard to tell if they have anything good or are just bluffing with 10 high or something

Play solid ranges.

Don't raise pre with your more speculative hands since you can't bet anyone off their hands post flop.

Fast play your big hands.

Value bet relentlessly.

Profit.

 

[Legend5555]

Agree that a solid knowledge of the fundamentals are integral, but I wouldn't call tells overrated, personally.

I've won some of my biggest pots by simply looking at my opponent, analysing their breathing, facial expressions and mannerisms — and just going with my gut read as to whether they "have it" or not.

But that's just me. If people want to spend more time reading up on GTO and the like instead of the psychological and mental aspects of the game, that's fine by me.

We've all don't that. The question is how often does that really happen compared to just hand reading well?

 

[grebe]

Yeah but that sounds like a tilted player. I mean wonder if getting tells out of people that are not tilted is even doable consistently

Tells are a very elusive thing, and tbh not very important in establishing a winning strategy. But sometimes, they will hit you in the face.

 

[jr8719]

We've all don't that. The question is how often does that really happen compared to just hand reading well?

It depends on how often / how much time you want to spend using these methods to deduct information.

However, I've found these hands are often the difference between a winning and losing session (i.e biggest pots of the night), so it's kind of a moot point for me as to how often they're used.

 

[ekricket]

We've all don't that. The question is how often does that really happen compared to just hand reading well?

Probably proportional to the number of times you see a flop.
If your only in three or four key hands per game compared to being in 50 speculative hands per orbit it can be the main driver.

 

[grebe]

Yeah but that sounds like a tilted player. I mean wonder if getting tells out of people that are not tilted is even doable consistently

Not really, but pick up the easy ones first. Low hanging fruit. See how many people behind you are waiting to bet or fold. If somebody acts out of turn because they are anxious, that's a giveaway tell. If somebody shrugs and shoves then follows it with "it's time to go home anyways"....that's a tell. If a card comes out and somebody immediately looks down at their chips then back up....that's a tell. These are easy to see. Spotting them is good...but how do you react to them is another.

All this being said, this stuff is not all that important to your overall win/loss rate as a new player. You would be much better served to learn how to play aggressive, read board textures, and learn how to extract value. This is the way....all the other stuff can come later.

 

[Chip1525]

If my opponent eats an Oreo, I fold.