Hot Take: Small Blinds are Unnecessary in Cash Games (3 Viewers)

[MrCatPants]

Exactly, but the questioning kinda weakens your position

My positions are always precarious and vociferous at best.

 

[ekricket]

My positions are always precarious and vociferous at best.

They are also very melodic, I sing them when I read your posts. Wild animals come and listen, and the babes sleep.

 

[MrCatPants]

Also the crushed enemies and the lamentations of the women.

 

[TX_Golf_N_Poker]

I've been stewing on this for a while - and now am ready to declare, small blinds in cash games are unnecessary. It slightly slows the game down with often making an additional denomination or additional chips necessary, and doesn't matter in a live cash game where VPIPing is going to be decently high. So I've gotten rid of them.

So I say down with the small blind, all hail the first blind and the second blind, my new overlord.

What say you?

So we've been doing this since November? And I hadn't noticed? Or have I just missed a lot of games due to holidays and such?

 

[Johnblue]

Yeah. The scene in l.a. is 5/5 all the way.

Even though this is the case, whenever there is BB SB in games I am apt to fold a small blind more often than I probably should… so there is something weird about that position.

 

[MrCatPants]

So we've been doing this since November? And I hadn't noticed? Or have I just missed a lot of games due to holidays and such?

We've been doing it for a while - pre November, but I had decided I'd make it permanent rather than a test.

 

[Nine_high]

It doesn't much matter to me. SB can be anything from 1/3 to equal the BB, or nonexistent (single blind). Any are fine.

I think it only really depends on the chips you you're using, trying to get the SB at or near half BB. Playing 0.50/0.50 using quarters would be weird to me, why not make it 0.25/0.50. But 0.50/0.50 using fiddys .

 

[JustinInMN]

So I just want to make sure I understand @MrCatPants ' intention here. Is it to eliminate the small blind, or to keep two blinds and they are just equal? It does make a difference because I do think raise-it-take-it gets too easy in a single blind game. So are we trying to just make two equal blinds the standard instead of small and big?

I'm indifferent to it honestly. I think if the alternative is to playing equal blinds versus introducing another denomination (ala 25¢-25¢ v 10¢-25¢), which I think this the issue @MrCatPants is trying to solve, the idea certainly has merit. But I would just as soon play $1-$2 blinds instead of $2-$2 blinds I suppose, but I'm not going to worry too much about playing the latter either.

So this may be a minor distinction or even semantics, but I think the reason for the blinds isn't to force the two guys in worst position to put money in the pot, it's to give all the other players a reason to want to come into the pot. Which is why antes work. And I wonder why nobody is discussing antes.

The problem with ante games and no blinds is that check-around hands take too long if players are not forced to match a bet to continue. This is the advantage blinds have, it forces an in or out decision early and will usually cut the field in half for all rounds. Casinos probably figured this out and that's why it's the normal structure. Even stud games based on an ante also assign a forced bet to achieve this same effect.

You really think the blinds are an incentive? They may be in limit, but in no limit, with pots easily getting to 100, 200, 300 BB or more, that 1.5BB is meaningless. No one cares. I don't think they serve any purpose in cash games, other than to get in the way of the cards being pitched in a self-dealt game.

I wouldn't look at it this way. Without that 1.5BB to start a pot (or 2BB to start a pot) no one has an incentive to raise it to 5BB, and then re-raise it to 15BB and so on to form those 300BB pots. If a pot started at zero, who would rationally enter a pot with anything other than the nuts? Pots need to start somewhere above zero, the basis of poker is starting with some amount that's out there to try and win. Now that said, in terms of the original discussion, does a pot starting at 1.5BB v 2BB make a huge difference, probably not.

Players must bet/call/raise or fold pre-flop; no checking allowed (same as if there were posted blinds, except that action starts with the first player after the button -- who posted the table ante).

This is interesting. This is an ante game with a forced bring in to play that's not represented by an actual blind. (I've seen PLO games with a related concept. They still use 1-2 blinds, but anyone else that wants to come in must open for at least 5 or fold.) This would keep the speed of an actual blind game as the check-through scenario from above wouldn't be in effect. The one possibility I see, and admittedly this is no worse than a wash, mind you, is that an early open will become the standard, making it very little change from an ante+blind structure, so I wonder if that isn't just how we ended up with the blinds following the button structure we have anyway. But still, I think this idea merits some experimentation.

 

[ekricket]

Players must bet/call/raise or fold pre-flop; no checking allowed (same as if there were posted blinds, except that action starts with the first player after the button -- who posted the table ante).

This is interesting. This is an ante game with a forced bring in to play that's not represented by an actual blind.

This feels like the “all-in or fold”tournaments except a cash adaptation.

 

[MrCatPants]

So I just want to make sure I understand @MrCatPants ' intention here. Is it to eliminate the small blind, or to keep two blinds and they are just equal? It does make a difference because I do think raise-it-take-it gets too easy in a single blind game. So are we trying to just make two equal blinds the standard instead of small and big?

I am indeed suggesting 2 equal denomination blinds. e.g. $0.50/$1 should just be $1/$1. $2/$5 should be $5/$5. $0.25/$0.50 should be $0.50/$0.50. etc.

 

[louBdub]

I’ve switched to 50c/50c and I love it.

It streamlines play using a single frac chip from the jump, and fire away action from there.

“Post blinds” - and two players set a 50c chip out as cards fly.

No more dealer pointing out “you’re big blind, no you’re small, hey blinds get your life together” talk….

Then it’s just $1, $5 and beyond chips for action. I absolutely LOVE this and won’t be looking back. Thanks @MrCatPants

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

I’ve switched to 50c/50c and I love it.

It streamlines play using a single frac chip from the jump, and fire away action from there.

“Post blinds” - and two players set a 50c chip out as cards fly.

No more dealer pointing out “you’re big blind, no you’re small, hey blinds get your life together” talk….

Then it’s just $1, $5 and beyond chips for action. I absolutely LOVE this and won’t be looking back. Thanks @MrCatPants

Ehhhh then I'd have TWO APES looking at me weird when I ask what they want to do before the flop. This might work for normal players but I simply cannot implement it. It doubles the explaining I've got to do.

 

[merkong]

I’ve switched to 50c/50c and I love it.

It streamlines play using a single frac chip from the jump, and fire away action from there.

“Post blinds” - and two players set a 50c chip out as cards fly.

No more dealer pointing out “you’re big blind, no you’re small, hey blinds get your life together” talk….

Then it’s just $1, $5 and beyond chips for action. I absolutely LOVE this and won’t be looking back. Thanks @MrCatPants

We’re .25/.25 and as I start the deal I say “ quarter, quarter.” For the longest time a couple of players thought I was saying “Coda, Coda.”

So that’s what I say now.