Horseshoe Tournament (CPC) (1 Viewer)

Nex

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If you have followed my previous postings, you know this is a first for me - I actually am revealing an unfinished set!
The designs of the denominated chips were already locked, but I have been undecided on the bounty/special chips at the time of posting.

Yes yes, I know, I did just put in an order for that Cali colors cash set. This one here was already on my wish list and budget plan for 2018 since August last year, the only open question was when exactly this year.

I have been talking with David about the upcoming production schedule, and things are going to work out perfectly. I will be able to put in the order for this set here just in time to be made in the same production run with the Cali set. The next FDL run is almost certainly starting early to mid August, and I'll be on board with two sets!

Okay - actually I already did reveal an earlier design iteration of this set a while ago. I have been working on it slowly but steadily meanwhile, not just refining the designs but also chip counts. The just-ordered Cali cash set replaces the cash set in aforementioned post, which only leaves the need (need... *cough*) for a tournament set.

Alright, first the mockup, then more details!

horseshoe_tournament_47_special_denoms.png


The T100 is a nonstandard spot style (the mockup is photoshopped - you actually cannot mock it up in the current version of the design tool) that will make my wallet cry, but it's still the next best thing to Paulson's 4TSA18 spot style which CPC sadly can't offer. In previous design iterations, I used 6TA18.

Yes, the duplicated scallop inlay shape does trigger my OCD a bit. However, note on which denominations they are. The T5 will never be used in any tournament that uses the T5,000 and vice-versa, so it does work out.

I will also order two bounty chips - one primary, the other a second level additional bounty:

horseshoe_tournament_47_bounties.png


I've been in a dilemma here at first, having two candidates:

alternatives_bounty.png


The canary one obviously fit the rest of the lineup much better (less confusion potential, more diversity) but the charcoal one looked too good to simply dump it. For the latter, I'd also have preferred to have the spots rotated a bit so that DG Tiger and DG Arc Yellow were on bottom left/right and DG Green top center, but rotating the inlay shape makes the content look awkward with way too little spacing in some places and then way too much spacing in others. For the canary one, I wasn't sure if having the spots rotated 90° looked better or not.

I have been considering using the canary ones as bounty but keeping a small amount of the charcoal ones in addition and make them some special, less-used chip, and been collecing ideas over here; my favorite/best fit was a second level bounty chip.

Was hoping to get some more inspiration for a secondary bounty chip, and have been brainstorming a bunch of ideas in this thread myself.

After being skeptical first, and now after being able to bump the set to the final target 30 players right ahead instead of in a later add-on, I also added a seating chip.

Since CPC either won't do separate inlays for every single seating chip at all or only at an insane premium, I'll resort to Gear Labels here (complete inlay replacement). This has the additional advantage that I'll be more flexible with replacement chips: The chips cost a lot, labels are relatively cheap, so instead of having two or more chips of every single seat made to have 1+ replacement(s), I can order a smaller amount of extra chips that will just get their inlay replaced ad hoc with just the right labels (of which I can order one or even two extra sets without spending too much extra).

alternatives_seating_02b.png


Motivation

I really love the design of the Horseshoe Cleveland/Cincinnati chips, spots as well as inlays. Same goes for the chips of the JACK casinos as they are named now, which obviously hired the same designer.
However:
  • I'm not too fond of buying used chips to play with, even if they're Paulsons.
  • The train for most of them has already departed, availability has gone down and prices are beyond good and evil for those higher denom chips.
  • I don't like oversized chips, especially I don't like different sized chips mixed in a set. OCD triggered hard.
  • I don't like all of the spots, and I like the Cleveland inlay style much more than the Cincinnati one. I do like the spots of two Cincinnati chips much more than their Cleveland counterparts though, so with the real deal, I'd end up with different inlay styles in the same set. OCD triggered hard again.
Relabeling would only solve the different inlay styles issue but none of the others, and given I'm located in Germany and professional service for this is only available in Canada, it'd be an extremely expensive option as well.

So I was thinking... why not have some custom lookalikes made?

Of course they're not Paulsons, and it's a real shame you can't get this awesome looking 4TSA18 spot with the extremely desaturated colors on the primary Cleveland $100, but this way I can pick exactly the spots I want (with that one exception, although 6HADS18 comes fairly close) while still having an uniform design, uniform chip size, brand new chips, and I can actually get a decent amount of high denoms to put together a tournament set without having to be a millionaire.

Some people are going to be put off by this. Just keep in mind that the reference chips are no longer "live", and this is intended for personal use in a private circle. No abuse potential. Also I've seen multiple people that went and relabelled Paulsons to lookalikes of the Horseshoe chips, so...

Design

Reference chips:

  • T5: Cleveland $5
  • T25: Cleveland $25 primary
  • T100: Cleveland $100 primary
  • T500: Cleveland $500 secondary
  • T1,000: Cincinnati $1,000 primary
  • T5,000: Cincinnati $5,000 primary
  • T25,000: Cleveland $25,000 primary
  • Pink Bounty: Cleveland $2.50 (8D18)
  • Seating: Cleveland $1

I've picked up samples of the originals for reference a while ago to ensure the closest match possible that still looks good overall with CPC colors.

On my inlays, the Paulson micro-dot security feature is replaced with a very tiny version of my monogram.

I've also meddled with some of the tiny icons on the mirror side of the micro-dot, for example replacing the Paulson Tophat&Cane on the reference T5,000 with a Fleur de Lys to mimic the original's connection between inlay icon and mold, and giving the T1,000 a generic new one.

I have tried to drop these two features altogether, given that they serve no real purpose, but the inlay just looks a bit too bland/empty without.

The inlay shape of the T500 has also been altered to avoid another shape duplication in the set.

The canary bounty chip has no reference; any similarities are coincidental.

Size

The original plan was to have a set big enough to cover a 20-player T30,000 tournament with rebuys/add-ons. Also wanted to include enough T5s to be able to run a fun little 10-player T1,500-T3,000-T5,000 tournament. This has no real logical reason, I just like the T5's design.

Refined it a bit as I realized I had unneccessarily many T500s; in turn increased the number of T25s and T100s in the starting stacks. New tournament format targets are T25k with one rebuy or add-on, or T50k without. Want to be able to copy the current WSOP structure.

And then, the day after sending the payment, I got a big unexpected tax refund. I was already strongly considering ordering an add-on to bump the number of supported players from 20 to 30 sometime early next year, but now... I'll just get it this year instead! I did jump for the white seating chips as well, and also bumped the T5s up to cover all 30 players.

  • T5 x 300 (300 Stacks)
  • T25 x 240 (240 Stacks)
  • T100 x 300 (240 Stacks + 60 Colorup)
  • T500 x 120 (60 Stacks + 60 Colorup)
  • T1,000 x 300 (210 Stacks + 90 Colorup)
  • T5,000 x 300 (240 Stacks/RB/AO + 60 Colorup)
  • T25,000 x 40 (40 RB/AO/Colorup)
  • Bounty x 60 (1 Buy-in + 1 Rebuy per player max)
  • Super Bounty x 30 (1 Buy-in per player max)
  • Seating x 30
Total # of chips: 1720 (plus spares) -- 1600 without bounties and seating

Samples

Sample orders are were open until August 1st, 2018 and are closed now.

A 7 chip (T5-T25,000) sample set is €21.50, shipping not included.
Please note samples were only available of the denominated chips. Bounty chips were not available.

If you have already ordered samples of my Paradise Los Angeles set: these chips are going to be pressed in the same run and hence will also be delivered to me at the same time, so I can combine shipping of both sample sets without any additional shipping costs. The postage you already paid has enough headroom (500 g).

For everyone else: Shipping is €3.70 international untracked plus €0.50 for the bubblewrap envelope. Add €2.50 if you want tracking. Fellow German chippers: national shipping is €1.45 untracked; optionally +€2.15 for tracking.
=> Germany tracked: €25.60 / untracked: €23.45
=> Rest of world tracked: €28.20 / untracked: €25.70


If you want a set, please send a PM for payment details (PayPal F&F).

Orders:
  1. @Forty4 | paid
  2. @ilovegravy | 2 sets | paid
  3. @DonkeyKing | paid
  4. @ThinkingFold | paid
  5. @Invenis | paid
  6. @Steamtrain | paid
  7. @pedrofisk | paid
  8. @ChipNup | 2 sets | paid
  9. @zqar21 | paid
  10. @Outkicked | 1 set + half barrel of T1ks for his original HS tournament set | paid
  11. @Lucks7Shadow | paid
  12. @kk405 | Half-barrel of T5ks for his community CPC sample rack | paid
 
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I think you managed to get decent substitutes for all of the chips you picked and I really love the 1k chip.

I would like to say that you are a brave man picking a lvl9 spot on that 500 when you could choose the lvl 4 below, but I’m sure you’ve considered that already.
99E6DF93-3067-4B76-B4A9-3DC0C6AAD179.jpeg
 
I know... but the 4TA181418 is a 100% match for the original spot. 4DS18 simply creates a different overall look with that thin spacing between the stripes.
Rather eating the extra cost than maddening myself later. :)

The T100 is the real bastard here though regarding cost.

Also agree with the 1k... my personal favorite is the 25k one but I believe the 1k will be stealing the show. Much more so as the T25k isn't going to show up in a T30k tournament until fairly late in the game while the T1k would be the highest denom in a T3k tournament as well as featured with one chip in everyone's starting stack already.
 
Some possible alternatives for the bounties.
Round inlay shape is just a placeholder so I can get a rough approximation of the overall look.

DG Pink sadly has strong similarity to the T1k's DG Tiger, while the white one is a lot more expensive because of the Bright White premium and also looks a bit bland compared to the rest of the set. Plus, it introduces a similarity to the gray T5k chip.

Point of reference however is the charcoal chip, which clashes with a black as well as a gray chip already in the set, so relatively seen these might still be better.

bounty-experiments.png


This would be total madness, also regarding cost.

It does get relative though since I'd only use it for the second level bounty which wouldn't be that many chips, and the super complex spot does make it look "worth more" than the canary chip. Plus, the amount of DG Pink around the edge is greatly reduced, so confusion potential with the T1k is wiped.

bounty-madness.png
 
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Fantastic looking set, @Nex !

I don't see either the $25 hexagonal inlay or the $500 twelve-pointed inlay on the CPC chip design tool, either. Are those actually available?! And where would I see the pricing?
 
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These aren't available. Actually, on the FDL mold, none of the shaped inlays CPC offers are recommended for technical reasons.

All the "shaped" inlays in this set are actually 1 1/16" round ones that have the shape printed on them - just like it's the case with the reference chips. The outer border of the inlay is then color-matched with the chip's base color.
 
Lineup of today's bounty experiments.

bounty-experiments-2.png


  • My confidence in #1 becoming the primary bounty chip keeps increasing as I experiment. I've apparently painted myself into a corner and only have few good base color choices left apart from Canary: DG Pink, Light Blue, White/Bright White. DG Saturn objectively is a candidate too but I hate the puke green sheen it has to it. This color is only good for relatively thin spots.
  • #2 currently still is my - objectively viewed - best candidate for the second-level bounty. Costs are high because of the complicated spot, but there's minimal confusion potential vs. the rest of the set. Bonus points: Its reference also is a Horseshoe chip. Although it doesn't count that much since the primary bounty candidateis a fantasy design already.
  • #3 (Saloon $1 colors, different spot) is one of the two halfway acceptable color combinations I've found work somewhat okay with a Light Blue base, one of the few colors I have left to use. Amount of spots clearly indicates higher ranking than #1 which is a plus, same goes for the lower spot level resulting in cheaper chips that still kind of achieve the desired effect. Will have to see how it looks in combination with the denominated chips in isolation.
  • #4 (Aurora Star $1) is another Light Blue base combo that looks somewhat okay on its own. Downside: The crude 1/2" spots do anything but signal a higher ranking. Scrapped.
  • For #5 (shamelessly taken from @Ray-Col's Metronome / @PokerChipsDesign's Gemini Cardroom), I don't even know why I saved it. I really love this spot and colors in isolation. Would be the perfect "beer" chip design for a less formal set. Unfortunately, I'm not in the market for a chip with these properties here. Scrapping as well.
  • #6 (Crystal Park $100) copies a chip design as close as possible which I like much more in its original form (8V). Sadly, the color combinations introduce a semi-remote confusion potential with the T5k chip's colors and spots, so going to be scrapped.
  • #7 (Horseshoe Cincinnati $2) shares a few bonuses #2 has. In direct comparison it is inferior though. The dark blue base will be hard to tell apart from the already-present black, and one of the two spots isn't dayglo so there's not much left that will help distinguish this chip from others under bad lighting conditions. Scrappity scrap.
  • #8 is a closer recreation of its original reference (see #3). It doesn't really have the "looks higher ranking" bonus however, so clearly inferior. Scrapping material.
 
bounty-experiments-3.png


Still no good alternatives.

Added Light Chocolate to the short list of generally still available base colors, although I don't think any chip with that base color will really fit the overall Horseshoe design. It's just way too muddy whereas the Horseshoes have this bright, generic-colorful, modern-sleek vibe to them.

The pink 8D18 definitely conceives the message "look at me, I'm super important, I'm in for the big money!" best of all those designs, with such a complex spot and consisting 100% of dayglo colors. What still somewhat keeps me from locking it as secondary bounty right away is the continuity break: All the denominated chips from the set are taken from reference while the primary bounty chip is not - which made it possible to use a base color not found anywhere else in the set: yellow. But then the secondary bounty would have a set reference again.

The white 3A14 of course has a set reference too, but a slightly better contrast to the denominated chips. Thing is, it only looks good with three spots, and the canary one has four. Definitely not secondary bounty material. Swapping the purpose of canary and white, I'll end up with the problem that pretty much everyone will have one, and this could get confusing in T3k tournaments where people have T5s in their stacks. Since the white one has a set reference to a fairly common chip, just like the denominated chips, it could well get confused with a T1 at first; highly irritating. Whereas the reference of the pink 8D18 is a chip denom you rarely if ever see in a poker game; so it still stands out and wouldn't be confused with a denomination that might be used in the tournament.

Dumping the canary chip and using the white 3A14 as primary together with the pink 8D18 as secondary would get rid of the continuity issue, but still leave the T1 confusion/irritation problem.

I'll give it a bit more time, but it really does look like I'll be going with the pink 8D18 for secondary and keep the canary as primary.

On the other hand...

I initially started this exploration operation in the hopes of somehow getting to make good use of the charcoal chip design - which is the least likely to happen now, so why bother further?

The intention behind was that I have exactly one barrel left to fill with my current breakdown, and it'd either be a second special chip (be it bounty or something else), or 20 extra T5ks to give me some bigger leeway handing out extra chip bonuses.

I've seen this being used at a local tournament series where they advertise it as a Txxxxx tournament (and the blind levels are geared for that stack size too) but the fine print tells you the actual stack everyone receives by default is lower, and to reach the advertised initial stack size you'd have to do additional things, like pre-registering and being there on time. So their use of the bonus is more like a punishment instrument for people acting in a detrimental way (being late).

I would only have a need for additional T5ks if I were planning to use the bonus in an "on top" way. i.e. blind schedule is geared for balanced play with no-bonus stacks and the more people manage to get the bonus, the longer it stretches the tournament out. This would be especially fatal if I were to use this scheme with giving a bonus for being there on time - my personal top candidate for giving a bonus out in the first place - which then probably the vast majority of players would do, resulting in a boring tournament that runs way longer than intended.

So I'd really very much prefer to avoid adding more T5ks in that empty barrel and instead pick up some special occasion chips I may or may not need down the road.
 
Since you are “borrowing” ideas from your favourite chips, I figured I’d chuck in a variation of @Puggys colony club arc yellow chip for consideration.

6717E0AE-2DA7-4D64-9F89-361033815CC7.jpeg 229F6573-68D9-4696-893D-D854C1258CE2.jpeg 3F98C753-5C3F-492A-8E72-09C6F06AE7DD.jpeg 50FC039D-2D65-48EA-BF8C-C1782A99F883.jpeg
 
Since you are “borrowing” ideas from your favourite chips, I figured I’d chuck in a variation of @Puggys colony club arc yellow chip for consideration.

If I were to go the road of "both bounty chips not a HS reference chip", then canary would already be occupied by the regular bounty chip unfortunately (and DG yellow can be barely distinguished from it at a very quick glance). Adding an arc yellow chip would introduce confusion potential with both the main bounty as well as the DG tiger T1k. This could be somewhat lessened by adding a good number of different-color dayglo spots, but that leads us to the properties of the 8D18 HS snapper again, and away from the Colony Club design with its very muted spot colors.

Borrowing from other chips here would be only an emergency plan. I would definitely prefer an original design with the right properties to fit in. Scraping some of my favorite chips for spot/color combo ideas was really just the emergency plan kicking in as I was absolutely out of ideas (and still am somewhat).

In for samples please. These are gonna be fierce.

And gonna be quite expensive as well :p
Denoms alone are already going to run up to about €21-22, excluding shipping.
These are going to look awesome in stacks and racks though :)

As said, I'm not taking sample orders yet. I will however notify everone who expressed interest when the time comes.
Probably opening up the order window earlier as detailed in the OP (closing time is going to be firm though).
 
The 100 might be one of the best looking CPC chips I've ever seen. Seriously.

I like your 5k and 25k a lot as well.
 
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I might have found a way out of this misery.
Not that imaginative, but no longer a HS reference behind. Cheaper spot as well while still achieving the higher ranking look, however not looking as flashy as the pink 8D18.

Base color alone has some confusion potential with the T5k but the spots are bright dayglo and take about 50% of the whole rolling edge area, evenly distributed and so visible from every angle - should help enough with distinguishability.

horseshoe_tournament_46_bounties.png
 
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A couple of alternate versions.

alternatives_bounty_ltblue8a14.png


What I don't like about the DG Saturn/DG Green one is the relative color similarity between DG Saturn and the Canary on the T5k in addition to the similarity between Light Blue and Gray.

Using DG Peach instead gets rid of this issue, but this color is a bit too saturated to fit the other two colors well imo. DG Tiger takes this even further and goes completely over the top; same goes for DG Pink. DG Arc Yellow would nicely fit in, but it's a shade of yellow again, so disqualified. And finally using DG Peacock results in a somewhat monochromatic chip that really doesn't match the rest of the set well in terms of overall appearance.
 
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And with this we are back again to thinly-veiled HS references.

bounty-8a14saturn.png
bounty-8a14peacock.png


DG Green is far superior to DG Peacock in the full lineup, so updated bounty candidates are:

bounty-experiments-5.png
 
Seating chips would require me to relabel one or two sides of these. Which is something I really don't want to do with custom, straight-from-the-factory CPCs.
For seating, using a stripped deck is so much cheaper while being just as easy to use. Rather saving the chips for something substitutes don't work as good.
 
I'll lock the 8A14 Saturn/Green one.

Not an exact copy of a HS chip anymore, also a good bit cheaper and more in line with "bounty progression"... 4A14 -> 8A14.
None of the available options was entirely without confusion potential, but the Pink/Saturn/Green one definitely has the least overlap.

Seems like I'm pretty much through every combo meeting the rough criteria. No stellar match among them, but taking the best fit.

horseshoe_tournament_47_bounties.png
 
@Nex this might be a bit premature and largely dependent on how many are ordered, but have you been given any indication as to what the total cost per chip will be when it comes time to order full sets? I am getting the feeling this isn't going to be economically viable for me to pursue.
 
CPC doesn't give volume discounts to regular customers like me. The per-chip price is already known with their price list.
I've run a calculation based on those prices, factoring in payment processing and import costs, and also a small buffer for the one unpredictably volatile element that is the EUR/USD exchange rate - the sample set price in the OP is the result. (Since I have no usable calculation basis for it, I haven't even included the appropriate share for the increase in shipping costs the sample sets will cause for the big shipment from CPC to me!)

The spot levels here are significantly higher than in the two other sets, resulting in quite steep per-chip prices. Just as a rough guide: The T100 will have a raw manufacturing cost of $4.68 per chip; the T500 is at $3.93.
 
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This thread is awesome. Great work and idea all round, especially considering the price of the $1000 +
 
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