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horseshoez

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I’ll make it very simple. Just want to ask a few questions in order to see how most approach certain issues and in turn, help apply the same at the monthly tournament my group of guys play.

1) Card flips during the deal, show burned card and continue dealing or mis-deal it?

2) Player betting out of turn. Any and all feedback about this is welcome.

3) What’s the average length of time you guys think should go by before calling time on a player debating their move?

4) Prefer same dealer or dealer rotation? What’s been the most efficient for you guys in terms of getting more hands in each round?

5) Same round lengths entire length of the tournament or shortened for example from 20 mins to 10 mins in the last 5-6 rounds?

Thanks in advance. If I think of anything else that comes up, I’ll post on the crew’s behalf.
 
1) the flipped card is now the burn

2) the bet is undone if it’s caught before acted upon. If the action to the player doesn’t change, they are compelled to make the same bet they had prior

3) never seen time called in a friendly home tourney, if it got excessive for the situation I’d probably start needling

4) same dealer is going to be quicker but most people don’t want to deal and play

5) shorten the rounds by a couple minutes towards the end in case tourney is running long
 
1) the flipped card is now the burn

2) the bet is undone if it’s caught before acted upon. If the action to the player doesn’t change, they are compelled to make the same bet they had prior

3) never seen time called in a friendly home tourney, if it got excessive for the situation I’d probably start needling

4) same dealer is going to be quicker but most people don’t want to deal and play

5) shorten the rounds by a couple minutes towards the end in case tourney is running long

Thanks for the answers. I figure that’s probably best approach. Just treat flipped card as the pre-flop burn.

As for time being called, I’m just referring to extreme situations. We’ve had half a round wasted if not more sometimes on a player debating.
 
We use dealer rotation because we don’t have a dedicated dealer. As one person is dealing another player is shuffling a second deck of cards so it’s ready for the next hand.
 
We use dealer rotation because we don’t have a dedicated dealer. As one person is dealing another player is shuffling a second deck of cards so it’s ready for the next hand.

I personally prefer it that way. Also gets others more familiar with the “art of dealing” if one can classify it as such.
 
1) Card flips during the deal, show burned card and continue dealing or mis-deal it?

first card exposed becomes the burn, player due to recieve the exposed card recieves the would-be burn as a replacement. Two cards exposed constitutes a misdeal.

2) Player betting out of turn. Any and all feedback about this is welcome.

Generally player is bound to his action in turn unless there has been a bet or raise between the out of turn action and his actual turn.

3) What’s the average length of time you guys think should go by before calling time on a player debating their move?

In a casual game 1-2 minutes seems good before calling clock (maybe I am too kind here), then the clock gives player 60 seconds to decide.

4) Prefer same dealer or dealer rotation? What’s been the most efficient for you guys in terms of getting more hands in each round?

Same dealer is helpful, but it is rather unfair to the guy that has to do it.

5) Same round lengths entire length of the tournament or shortened for example from 20 mins to 10 mins in the last 5-6 rounds?

I am partial to same round lengths, but I can understand more gradual reductions than suggested here. 20 minutes before break 1, 16 minute between breaks 1 and 2, 12 after break two for example.

I don't think I could cut level times in half anymore than I could stand double blind increases.

Hope it helps.
 
1) Card flips during the deal, show burned card and continue dealing or mis-deal it?
First or second card, redeal; any other card, continue dealing and replace with burn at end of deal.
2) Player betting out of turn. Any and all feedback about this is welcome.
Action is binding if preceding action doesn't change. First few offenses comes with warnings, then penalties.
3) What’s the average length of time you guys think should go by before calling time on a player debating their move?
Never been an issue, but I'd say 1 min
4) Prefer same dealer or dealer rotation? What’s been the most efficient for you guys in terms of getting more hands in each round?
In my game, I deal full time and BB shuffles. I draw for a seat with the rest but adjust placement such that I'm in dealer seat.
5) Same round lengths entire length of the tournament or shortened for example from 20 mins to 10 mins in the last 5-6 rounds?
Always same level length. You can accelerate the increase each level if you want it to end faster.
 
It is a 30 sec clock now.

When a floor person initiates a clock, the participant will be given anywhere from 0 to 30 seconds, plus a 10- second countdown. The exact amount of time will be up to the discretion of the floor person.
 
1) Card flips during the deal, show burned card and continue dealing or mis-deal it?
Continue dealing as if nothing happend, then replace the exposed card with the burn card, and the exposed card is the new burn.

I usually keep it face up on the deck, but flip it when burning.

2) Player betting out of turn. Any and all feedback about this is welcome.
If the action has not changed after the proper order has commenced, then the bet/check is binding.

3) What’s the average length of time you guys think should go by before calling time on a player debating their move?
Depends on how crusial the decision is and the player's history of tanking.

If it's a major tank repeat offender I could seriously see myself calling the clock after a minute even if he's facing an all in decision as the second in chips on the bubble.

4) Prefer same dealer or dealer rotation? What’s been the most efficient for you guys in terms of getting more hands in each round?
Same dealer would be great (best, from a hands per hour viewpoint, would be two dealers per table sitting on opposite sides, each with his/her own deck), but we rotate the deal, shuffling behind.

5) Same round lengths entire length of the tournament or shortened for example from 20 mins to 10 mins in the last 5-6 rounds?

IMO, 20 to 10 seems brutal. I either shorten the levels or increase the jumps.
Example:
If the tournament should end around level 4000/8000, I'll either use a normal structure towards the end (1000/2000, 1500/3000, 2000/4000, 3000/6000, 4000/8000) and shorten the levels gradually from, say, 25 to 20, then to 16.
Or, I'll keep the level length but increase the jumps: 1000/2000, 1500/3000, 2500/5000, 4000/8000.

In either case, after the level where the tournament is supposed to end, I have "time to leave" levels, i.e., short levels and brutal jumps. If you ain't done by now you better start shoving! ;)
 
1) Card flips during the deal, show burned card and continue dealing or mis-deal it?

If it's one of the first two cards, misdeal.

Otherwise, if it's one card exposed, show it to the table, continue dealing, and exchange the exposed card with the first burn.

If two or more cards are exposed, misdeal.

2) Player betting out of turn. Any and all feedback about this is welcome.

Dealer should stop the action and put it back where it belongs. If action changes to the out-of-turn better, he may change his action, but if the action is the same, he must take the same action.

If it's perceived as an angle shoot or intentional or happens repeatedly, a warning and/penalty should be issued (unlikely in a home game, tho).

3) What’s the average length of time you guys think should go by before calling time on a player debating their move?

It really depends on the situation. Generally in a home game, there's very few reasons to call clock, especially in a big hand. But late in a tournament, with short stacks and shorter blind levels, it might be appropriate.

If the situation warranted calling clock, I'd mention the reason and announce I'm calling clock in a minute. ("I'm short stacked and the clock is running. I'm calling clock in a minute.")

4) Prefer same dealer or dealer rotation? What’s been the most efficient for you guys in terms of getting more hands in each round?

A competent dealer at the center of the table is best, with a rotating shuffle. But there could be a perception that the dealer is biased if he's also playing in the game, so everyone has to be comfortable with it.

5) Same round lengths entire length of the tournament or shortened for example from 20 mins to 10 mins in the last 5-6 rounds?

Typically, at the end of a tournament, the blinds can be shorter, because there will be fewer players left.

I used to make the beginning of the tournament longer to give the structure more play. Then a realized actual play (where pots can be more significant) started around Round 4, so I made those a little longer.

Nothing wrong with the same blind length throughout, tho.
 
I’ll make it very simple. Just want to ask a few questions in order to see how most approach certain issues and in turn, help apply the same at the monthly tournament my group of guys play.

1) Card flips during the deal, show burned card and continue dealing or mis-deal it?

2) Player betting out of turn. Any and all feedback about this is welcome.

3) What’s the average length of time you guys think should go by before calling time on a player debating their move?

4) Prefer same dealer or dealer rotation? What’s been the most efficient for you guys in terms of getting more hands in each round?

5) Same round lengths entire length of the tournament or shortened for example from 20 mins to 10 mins in the last 5-6 rounds?

Thanks in advance. If I think of anything else that comes up, I’ll post on the crew’s behalf.

For my group:

1) an exposed hole card constitutes a misdeal.
2) verbal warning. Chips are committed no matter what the skipped player does.
3) anyone still involved in the hand may call a clock after 2 min. Player must act in 1min.
4) we rotate
5) we do not change the round time and our blind delta hovers around 33%.
 
1) Card flips during the deal, show burned card and continue dealing or mis-deal it?
If it's exposed right out of the gate, misdeal. Otherwise, continue with the deal in the order you are going so that players will receive the cards they were going to get, then after dealing the last card, give a second card to the player missing one, then the exposed card serves as the burn so you still get the same flop.

2) Player betting out of turn. Any and all feedback about this is welcome.
The out-of-turn bet is brought back, but binding if when you go in turn the action before the player doesn't change.

3) What’s the average length of time you guys think should go by before calling time on a player debating their move?
This is a tough one. Depends on the situation. Usually not more than a minute. No hard rules yet on this in the home game. If we ever get to a "clock" situation, anyone would be able to call clock, not just players in the hand. I don't like to put players in the hand in a situation where they have to be enforcers of the rules, because in so doing they might seem like they are giving away information about their own hand.

4) Prefer same dealer or dealer rotation? What’s been the most efficient for you guys in terms of getting more hands in each round?
On a full 8-10 handed table, I think full dealer rotation is difficult, especially for players on the ends of an oval-shaped table. Usually in my game, I seat myself in the best dealing position and I handle most of the dealing because I'm the most efficient with it. I make the player in the BB shuffle the alternate deck, because that player has the most time before they have to act in the hand. When we have multiple tables going, at the other table, usually one or two players who are well-positioned will take principal responsibility for dealing, but they take turns.

5) Same round lengths entire length of the tournament or shortened for example from 20 mins to 10 mins in the last 5-6 rounds?
Same length throughout, for sure. Especially if you have a standard payout structure that is heavily weighted toward the winner (e.g., 50-30-20 for top 3 or 46-27-17-10, which are standard payout percentages in Tournament Director software), I think it makes little sense to increase the variance by having shorter levels late when the players are playing for the real money.
 
I have a player in my game who gets annoyed, if not irate, if there is a classic misdeal preflop (e.g. two cards get exposed), and we collect cards to start over.

He argues that the deal should continue anyway, in the interest of speed, with exposed cards being treated as the first and second burns, as “it’s all random” anyway.

I don’t really dispute the “random” logic, and am also not concerned with my group that anyone would try to angle via misdeals.

That said, hands played with even one exposed card make for potentially skewed play (e.g. if a possible flush comes on the board and the exposed card was a high card of that suit; or if the exposed card lessens the chances of a straight; etc.). And I don’t want to encourage careless dealing by tolerating misdeals.
 
I don’t really dispute the “random” logic, and am also not concerned with my group that anyone would try to angle via misdeals.

That said, hands played with even one exposed card make for potentially skewed play (e.g. if a possible flush comes on the board and the exposed card was a high card of that suit;

Yeah, I agree and pretty much that's bthe reason. Exposing two cards really gives too much information about a hand and should happen rarely enough where it isn't an issue

Personally, I can't remember the last time that came up in a self dealt game in which I have played. First or second card exposed happens of course.
 
Yeah, I agree and pretty much that's bthe reason. Exposing two cards really gives too much information about a hand and should happen rarely enough where it isn't an issue

Personally, I can't remember the last time that came up in a self dealt game in which I have played. First or second card exposed happens of course.

We haven’t had a situation yet in which two cards were exposed however that’ll be the way we proceed if it happens. Most of the dealing has been via “competent” dealers hence why it hasn’t been encountered yet.

As far as the betting out of order, seems like everybody is on the same wavelength when it comes to that. Pretty straightforward to hold them to it if the action before him hasn’t changed.

We’ve only faced wanting to call time when it’s been something in the 5 minute range especially if it’s earlier in the tourney and no need.

I like the same dealer approach for position of the deal as well as consistency. Only disadvantage is I feel it to be a little unfair to the dealer who won’t be fully dialed into the game.

I like keeping the round lengths the same all the way through. Personally I feel like if time allows, it makes the final players pay with more strategy as opposed to feeling like they’re committed to a pre-flop all in simply because the big blind has reached 30k, 40k, or 50k.
 

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