Home game setup questions (1 Viewer)

[Ragman]

Hi all - I've played in and hosted short-lived home games before, and played in casino poker rooms many times. I'm trying to get a bi-weekly or monthly home game going and I'm around 6 people, maybe 8. We'll see.

Even if that doesn't pan out, I want to put together a chip set that I can have on hand for the coming years. For the most part, I'm planning to spread low-limit ($0.25/$0.50 limit holdem to start to get players comfortable, then $0.50/$1). I'm planning to get a 500 chip set, and I've already gotten samples of and decided on china clay Majestics. I am planning to get blanks and then label them myself at some point (already been in touch with @Gear about that). In the meantime I may leave them as non-demons while I dial things in.

I like the idea of having more chips on the table rather than less to spur some action, and I've been trying to come up with the best breakdown of chip colors/denominations so we don't have to constantly make change but won't have barrels and barrels of quarters in front of people. Apache sells the Majestic blanks in sleeves of 25, which means I won't have solid colored racks unless I buy in multiples of 100. I don't really want to do just yet so I'll have to deal with a mixed color rack or two. Here is what I have come up with so far:

125 Quarters (yellow)
225 Ones (blue)
125 Fives (red)
25 Twenty-fives (green)

That gives me one rack of yellow, two racks of blue, one rack of red, and one mixed rack with one barrel each of yellow, blue, red and green, with the last barrel with 5 of each. That gives a total bank of a little over $1500 which should be gracious plenty I think. Do you think the 25s are overkill? I like having them in there so we can run tournaments (at least until I get a separate tournament set, which will probably be ceramic). Since they are stock blanks, I can always buy more as needed, and add in black 100s, etc. when/if the time comes. For now I'm looking for the best 500 chip set I can put together.

Next question, which I've seen asked and somewhat answered in other threads, is chip racks. I want to get good old plastic racks, but sizing seems to be a challenge with these china clays. I measure my sample of 10 to be right at 33mm, maybe just over. The Paulson plastic racks are said to be 66.7mm, which I think would be just about right for a barrel of 20. I'd rather not do the 21 chip to a barrel thing, but I will if needed. I see that Apache is getting the Paulson racks back in stock so I'm thinking about taking a chance on them. I'd love to hear any experience or advice on that.

Question the third, blinds. For a $0.50/$1 it's easy with quarters (1 for the small, 2 for the big). But for $0.25/$0.50 I don't want to mess around with a half bet small blind. I'm thinking about just going with two big blinds of $0.25 each (both live of course). Any experience with that? Most of the people who I'm inviting to play are kitchen table poker players, and I want to help get them comfortable with playing in a casino if they ever want to, so I'm a bit worried about them getting confused by two bigs. Maybe I'll just graduate it up to $0.50/$1 pretty quick!

Last question for now (maybe I should have started four threads) - what is your opinion of roll out table toppers, the ones that have neoprene/rubber on the bottom to keep them from sliding (and give a little cushion) and felt with a center oval? I don't have room for a dedicated poker table right now, and don't really like the table toppers that have the cup holders, cushion on them. Any experience with those or other suggestions? Playing on a hard slick table sucks,

 

[upNdown]

I wonder if you have a big enough bank.
People I play .25/.50 with, usually want to buy in with anything between $40 and $100. I guess you should have a good idea, but personally I wouldn't be comfortable with a $1500 bank for .25/.50.
Edit: My bad. I didn't read carefully enough to see you were playing limit. Nevermind, your bank is good.

 

[BGinGA]

Chipco racks or any 66.7mm racks (Paulson, Unique, generic stamped 66.7) should fit the Majestic chips 20 to a barrel without much wiggle room.

 

[BGinGA]

It is my understanding that if playing no-limit, a 1/2 game refers to the blinds -- so a 25c/50c game would have a 25c sb and a 50c bb. By having two blinds at 25c, you are essentially proposing a 25c/25c game. Nothing wrong with that whatsoever.

For fixed-limit games, it's different -- the numbers refer to small and big bet sizes, not the size of the blinds. A 1/2 limit game would have 50c and $1 blinds, with $1 betting increments pre-flop and on the flop, with $2 bet increments on the turn and river.

 

[Nex]

Do you think the 25s are overkill? I like having them in there so we can run tournaments (at least until I get a separate tournament set, which will probably be ceramic).

Don't ever use the same chip in both cash and tournament. Your bank will thank you.
But even without that, as others have said, the 25s have their right to exist there. Potentially even more. The bank could use some more value. You would normally stock up on 5s first before adding even more 25s, but if you're on a budget, another roll of 25s gets you to the goal cheaper (albeit with a slight increase of making change situations).

Next question, which I've seen asked and somewhat answered in other threads, is chip racks.

If you're on a budget with chips (500 works, but double the amount makes a smoother game with less making change), you really want to go for specialized high-end racks? Just pick up any multipack to start with. If you get really expensive chips later on I would understand it, but special racks to fit china clays?

Question the third, blinds. For a $0.50/$1 it's easy with quarters (1 for the small, 2 for the big). But for $0.25/$0.50 I don't want to mess around with a half bet small blind. I'm thinking about just going with two big blinds of $0.25 each (both live of course). Any experience with that? Most of the people who I'm inviting to play are kitchen table poker players, and I want to help get them comfortable with playing in a casino if they ever want to, so I'm a bit worried about them getting confused by two bigs. Maybe I'll just graduate it up to $0.50/$1 pretty quick!

It does quite change the maths of the preflop game in Limit Hold'em. If you had people with previous limit experience who are looking to keep thir skills sharp outside the casino, this might be a no thanks. On the other hand, if you want to train novices with that structure for casino play, the training will be inadequate.

Last question for now (maybe I should have started four threads) - what is your opinion of roll out table toppers, the ones that have neoprene/rubber on the bottom to keep them from sliding (and give a little cushion) and felt with a center oval? I don't have room for a dedicated poker table right now, and don't really like the table toppers that have the cup holders, cushion on them. Any experience with those or other suggestions? Playing on a hard slick table sucks,

I have one of those rubber mats, and they kinda suck. Too slippery for cards and not enough cushioning. Trying to pick up/shuffle cards on it is no fun. The only use they have is making higher quality chips last a bit longer by dampening their fall. I also have a folding table top with cushion and cupholders, and while these do suck too (low quality) I'd definitely prefer them over rubber mats. These are correctly cushioned for easy card pickup/shuffle, also provide a natural card stopper when dealing with the cushioned rail.

 

[BGinGA]

Imo, the roll-up neoprene table toppers are less expensive, much higher quality, and provide a better playing experience than the bulky table-wannabees that include uselessly-shallow cup holders, crappy felt, and a glued-on rail (all for basically twice as much cash outlay).

 

[v1pe]

Sounds to me like it's a limit game.

I think a more important question to ask is, what are your players going to want to buy in for, and are they going to be the type to fire multiple bullets or just once?

For a limit game, you want to start everyone off with at least 25 big bets. So if you play 50c/$1 with a $25 buy in...that's reasonable. If your players only want to spend $10-20 at a time, you'd probably be better served going 25c/50c. I think your solution for just doing 25c/25c blinds is about the best one you'll find.

 

[v1pe]

Imo, the roll-up neoprene table toppers are less expensive, much higher quality, and provide a better playing experience than the bulky table-wannabees that include uselessly-shallow cup holders, crappy felt, and a glued-on rail (all for basically twice as much cash outlay).

I totally agree with this as well. Go this route and save up for a decent table.

 

[Ragman]

Chipco racks or any 66.7mm racks (Paulson, Unique, generic stamped 66.7) should fit the Majestic chips 20 to a barrel without much wiggle room.

This is exactly what I wanted to know - thanks!

It is my understanding that if playing no-limit, a 1/2 game refers to the blinds -- so a 25c/50c game would have a 25c sb and a 50c bb. By having two blinds at 25c, you are essentially proposing a 25c/25c game. Nothing wrong with that whatsoever.

For fixed-limit games, it's different -- the numbers refer to small and big bet sizes, not the size of the blinds. A 1/2 limit game would have 50c and $1 blinds, with $1 betting increments pre-flop and on the flop, with $2 bet increments on the turn and river.

This is my understanding too. The home game I'm planning will be limit, so the blinds would really be 12.5c/25c for a 25c/50c limit game, which isn't workable. The more I think of it a 50c/$1 game is a better start (with 25c/50c blinds) but if we do play 25c/50c limits, then a 25c/25c blind structure is the only really workable one I can come up with. That is, unless we play with nickels, and if we go that route I'm going to suggest that we just watch a movie instead!

 

[Ragman]

I wonder if you have a big enough bank.
People I play .25/.50 with, usually want to buy in with anything between $40 and $100. I guess you should have a good idea, but personally I wouldn't be comfortable with a $1500 bank for .25/.50.
Edit: My bad. I didn't read carefully enough to see you were playing limit. Nevermind, your bank is good.

Yes, limit is the plan. Seems like no limit is by far the predominant form these days for cash games. I don't trust myself at no limit except for tournaments!

Last time I was in Columbus, OH (Hollywood Casino) I bought in for $200 at a 4/8 limit game. They play it with $1 chips so it is action-central but even so one guy made a point of asking me why I bought in for so much (huh?). I guess limit players like to buy in small and re-buy a lot. Me? I prefer to have plenty of ammunition so I can lose the maximum amount when my set of Queens loses to a back-door inside straight on the river. No one folds in limit holdem, which, is usually right because the odds are there with so many callers, but that's not why they are doing it (sometimes, sometimes you find some sharp players in low-limit). And at 2/4 or 4/8 no one is even paying attention to your table image unless you are obnoxious or a maniac. Which is good, really. I want them chasing garbage that may not even win if it gets there, definitely pays off in the long run. Especially because it is practically impossible to get any respect. Fold 9 hands in a row then raise under the gun? Get ready for 5 people in a row to call it off and then someone to three-bet it because they see we are all GAMBLING!

I wonder if you have a big enough bank.
People I play .25/.50 with, usually want to buy in with anything between $40 and $100. I guess you should have a good idea, but personally I wouldn't be comfortable with a $1500 bank for .25/.50.
Edit: My bad. I didn't read carefully enough to see you were playing limit. Nevermind, your bank is good.

Thanks for the feedback. Before you edited I was trying to picture my brother-in-law wearing mirrored sunglasses with 4 racks of quarters stacked in front of him trying to get a tell off my coworker who has to be reminded that trips beats two pair!

 

[Ragman]

Sounds to me like it's a limit game.

I think a more important question to ask is, what are your players going to want to buy in for, and are they going to be the type to fire multiple bullets or just once?

For a limit game, you want to start everyone off with at least 25 big bets. So if you play 50c/$1 with a $25 buy in...that's reasonable. If your players only want to spend $10-20 at a time, you'd probably be better served going 25c/50c. I think your solution for just doing 25c/25c blinds is about the best one you'll find.

Definitely a limit game, and to start I would be surprised if people are buying in for more than $20-$40. Thanks for the confirmation on the $0.25/$0.25. I just don't want to mess around with anything less than Quarters and don't even want to think about $0.50 chips. Since these are stock chips that I'll be labeling myself, I can always load up with more as the game dictates going forward. Thanks for taking the time to reply.

I totally agree with this as well. Go this route and save up for a decent table.

Thanks to you both. The neoprene roll up was what I was thinking of when I posted. I didn't want to come right out and call the other ones craptacular (the foldup tables or toppers) in case anyone has one and likes it, but hell, let's go with it! I thought the roll up was a good balance between less expensive, portable, and something I don't care too much about if it get's destroyed).

 

[Ragman]

Don't ever use the same chip in both cash and tournament. Your bank will thank you.
But even without that, as others have said, the 25s have their right to exist there. Potentially even more. The bank could use some more value. You would normally stock up on 5s first before adding even more 25s, but if you're on a budget, another roll of 25s gets you to the goal cheaper (albeit with a slight increase of making change situations).

Fair enough, thanks.

If you're on a budget with chips (500 works, but double the amount makes a smoother game with less making change), you really want to go for specialized high-end racks? Just pick up any multipack to start with. If you get really expensive chips later on I would understand it, but special racks to fit china clays?

We must be thinking of different things. I'm definitely not wanting anything fancy or high-end. The plastic Paulson racks I saw on Apache were only $4.75 each instead of the $3 each for others I've seen. From what others have said the 66.7mm size of just about anything will work for those.

I have one of those rubber mats, and they kinda suck. Too slippery for cards and not enough cushioning. Trying to pick up/shuffle cards on it is no fun. The only use they have is making higher quality chips last a bit longer by dampening their fall. I also have a folding table top with cushion and cupholders, and while these do suck too (low quality) I'd definitely prefer them over rubber mats. These are correctly cushioned for easy card pickup/shuffle, also provide a natural card stopper when dealing with the cushioned rail.

Thanks for that! Always good to get the opinion of someone who has used both. I really appreciate you taking the time to reply.

 

[RowdyRawhide]

If you are running a true fixed limit game at those stakes, I question whether or not you actually have enough small chips.... I would argue for 3 racks of quarters a rack and a half of 5s and if you are worried about bank 50 of the 25's. In a .25-.50 limit game the 1s would basically get in the way if not be virtually worthless. The quarters are your workhorse and 5s are value chips only used to make change and rebuys. The $25s would only be for extreme banking needs. For this skinny of a set I would want at least 2 barrels of workhorse chips per person (3-4 barrels would be much more ideal) and give them the rest in 5s. If you get to where you need the 1s you can always add them later.

Before even get into the $25s you have $925 in bank.....

 

[v1pe]

@RowdyRawhide makes a good point, BTW.

Typically with a limit set you are going to have 1 workhorse chip and 1 "big" chip. For something like a 25c/50c or even a 50c/$1 game you would probably want your workhorse to be 25c chip and your "big" chip to be a $5 chip. Most around here would recommend you purchase ~1 rack of workhorse chip per player, and 1-2 racks of "big" chip for rebuys. Make the buy-in $25 and give each player 100 x 25c chips for 50 big bets at 25c/50c or 25 big bets at 50c/$1. Most limit players also seem to prefer a 2/4, 3/6, or 4/8 chip structure. For example a 50c/$1 game played with 25c workhorse would be a 2/4 chip structure. Keeps things really simple when you only have 2 denominations on the table, and this is also the way that casinos will spread limit games.

Of course getting rid of $1s, $5s, and $25s might require you to go above your existing budget...but 800-1600ct chip sets are generally what are recommended around here for limit sets.

 

[Ragman]

If you are running a true fixed limit game at those stakes, I question whether or not you actually have enough small chips.... I would argue for 3 racks of quarters a rack and a half of 5s and if you are worried about bank 50 of the 25's. In a .25-.50 limit game the 1s would basically get in the way if not be virtually worthless. The quarters are your workhorse and 5s are value chips only used to make change and rebuys. The $25s would only be for extreme banking needs. For this skinny of a set I would want at least 2 barrels of workhorse chips per person (3-4 barrels would be much more ideal) and give them the rest in 5s. If you get to where you need the 1s you can always add them later.

Before even get into the $25s you have $925 in bank.....

That makes sense. In a perfect world I’d just have racks and racks of whatever denomination chip fits the small blind best, in the case of a .25/.50 that would be quarters, plus some bigger chips for rebuys and coloring up so people can still see the board over their stacks. The more I think about it, I’d really rather get folks playing .50/1, with the opportunity to play lower if people want to, if a little clunky making change more frequently. Does that change the recommendation any? Should I get a bigger set, like 600?

This is starting to feel like buying a house - if I could just spend 20% more I can get what I really want! Of course, when I move up to that price, Istill need 20% more to get what I really, REALLY want!

How about this, if I want a set, that I could expand later if needed, that was geared toward .50/1,but could also accommodate .25/.50 if needed, how big of a set do I need, consisting of which denominations. Please keep in mind I’m envisioning an ongoing, rakeless games for friends. I won’t be inviting strangers or running an underground card room.

 

[Ragman]

@RowdyRawhide makes a good point, BTW.

Typically with a limit set you are going to have 1 workhorse chip and 1 "big" chip. For something like a 25c/50c or even a 50c/$1 game you would probably want your workhorse to be 25c chip and your "big" chip to be a $5 chip. Most around here would recommend you purchase ~1 rack of workhorse chip per player, and 1-2 racks of "big" chip for rebuys. Make the buy-in $25 and give each player 100 x 25c chips for 50 big bets at 25c/50c or 25 big bets at 50c/$1. Most limit players also seem to prefer a 2/4, 3/6, or 4/8 chip structure. For example a 50c/$1 game played with 25c workhorse would be a 2/4 chip structure. Keeps things really simple when you only have 2 denominations on the table, and this is also the way that casinos will spread limit games.

Of course getting rid of $1s, $5s, and $25s might require you to go above your existing budget...but 800-1600ct chip sets are generally what are recommended around here for limit sets.

Good advice. I was hoping to get a 500 chip set that gave me all the flexibility I need, but sounds like that won’t work. I think the one saving grace I have is the the stock set/custome label route allows me to expand as needed. I’m thinking I start off with four racks of workhorse and one rack of big chip and then go from there.

Edit: five racks of workhorse and one rack of big chip for a total of 600 to start.

 

[upNdown]

I think the 2/4. 3/6. and 4/8 structures are ridiculous.
I've only played $2/$4 limit, but every time I have, it's been played with $2 chips (with minimal $1's for small blinds/bring ins)
Why on earth would I want to throw in two $1 chips or god forbid, four .50 chips to make a small bet, when I can do it with a single $2 chip? I don't get it.

 

[RowdyRawhide]

That makes sense. In a perfect world I’d just have racks and racks of whatever denomination chip fits the small blind best, in the case of a .25/.50 that would be quarters, plus some bigger chips for rebuys and coloring up so people can still see the board over their stacks. The more I think about it, I’d really rather get folks playing .50/1, with the opportunity to play lower if people want to, if a little clunky making change more frequently. Does that change the recommendation any? Should I get a bigger set, like 600?

This is starting to feel like buying a house - if I could just spend 20% more I can get what I really want! Of course, when I move up to that price, Istill need 20% more to get what I really, REALLY want!

How about this, if I want a set, that I could expand later if needed, that was geared toward .50/1,but could also accommodate .25/.50 if needed, how big of a set do I need, consisting of which denominations. Please keep in mind I’m envisioning an ongoing, rakeless games for friends. I won’t be inviting strangers or running an underground card room.

I still think just doing 25c and $5 chips is the way to go...... for .25-.50 you just use 1 chip and 2 chips....for .50-1 you just use 2chips and 4 chips for the bet. To me that is part of the beauty of a fixed limit game. The $5s are only there to make change between hands (one $5 = one barrel of quarters) ...they can't be used for betting for the most part since you can only bet or raise the limit amount for that round.

If you think you will be playing more .50-1 then I would absolutely get another rack of quarters. You can always add more later as your game grows.

I think my suggested break down for the first 580 chips would be

400 x 25c
180 x $5

The last barrel could be all $25 or you could even do 15 x $25 and 5 x $100 if you are very worried about bank. These could also be extras for the set and just finish the main 600 off with another barrel of $5.... it sounds like that's how it will play most of the time any way. 1100 in bank right there. That's over $100 per person for buy ins and rebuys

As stated a rack of workhorse chips per person would be ideal but I also understand the fiscal limitations as well

 

[RowdyRawhide]

I think the 2/4. 3/6. and 4/8 structures are ridiculous.
I've only played $2/$4 limit, but every time I have, it's been played with $2 chips (with minimal $1's for small blinds/bring ins)
Why on earth would I want to throw in two $1 chips or god forbid, four .50 chips to make a small bet, when I can do it with a single $2 chip? I don't get it.

I've played almost exclusively limit in casino setting for the last 5 years and have never played a 1-2 chip structure. I've played at Indian casinos, Vegas, horseshoe southern indiana, local casinos in KC. Perhaps it's a local casino thing in your neck of the woods. Not saying there's anything wrong with it and he's gonna play .25-.50 that's how he'll have to do it

Besides moving more chips around is much more fun than tiny pots...

Also I've never played a limit game with bring ins either

 

[upNdown]

I've played almost exclusively limit in casino setting for the last 5 years and have never played a 1-2 chip structure. I've played at Indian casinos, Vegas, horseshoe southern indiana, local casinos in KC. Perhaps it's a local casino thing in your neck of the woods. Not saying there's anything wrong with it and he's gonna play .25-.50 that's how he'll have to do it

Besides moving more chips around is much more fun than tiny pots...

Also I've never played a limit game with bring ins either

Ever play stud?
I'm not saying that the 2-4, 3-6, 4-8 structures aren't common - I believe you, and I see those structures discussed here a lot. But I don't understand it, because fewer chips are more efficient. Also it's my opinion that once you get over the novelty of raking one or two giant pots, the excess chips get to be a pain in the butt. That's an opinion, and I wouldn't try to argue that. But I will argue the efficiency point - the game works very well with a 1-2 chip structure. Again, why more?

 

[Ragman]

I've played almost exclusively limit in casino setting for the last 5 years and have never played a 1-2 chip structure. I've played at Indian casinos, Vegas, horseshoe southern indiana, local casinos in KC. Perhaps it's a local casino thing in your neck of the woods. Not saying there's anything wrong with it and he's gonna play .25-.50 that's how he'll have to do it

Besides moving more chips around is much more fun than tiny pots...

Also I've never played a limit game with bring ins either

Thanks for all the advice @RowdyRawhide and others. Great advice and insight that has really helped me dial it in.

 

[RowdyRawhide]

Play spread limit stud all the time but we don't typically have bring ins....never played fixed limit stud. If you have bring ins which when I've played are usually the same or half of the SB, then that's an even better argument for a 2-4, 3-6, or 4-8 structure IMO

More chips is always better.....unless you don't like big stacks

 

[TexRex]

I use the neoprene table toppers. Like you, I can't do a dedicated poker table. I have a kitchen table, a dining room table, and on rare occasions, another hardtop wood table.

For those used to playing on nice poker tables with padded felt (or similar), the neoprene is probably a distant second choice. I understand that, but that isn't always an option.

Compared to a hard top, the neoprene toppers are MUCH better! However, I found they weren't enough. I purchased 2 neoprene pads that complete covers the table, then put the neoprene topper on top. Most players put their chips on the pad and not the topper. Both my tables are 42" wide, so the 35-36" wide topper leaves room on both sides.

The pads are 2MM or 3MM. I like the 3MM better. The two together make a nice padded surface.

The third table I have a Poker Hoody for, and it could go on one of my other tables. too. I have a carpet pad I put on that table to hold it since I've not figured out how to cinch the Hoody properly. I put it on the carpet pad and it keeps it in place. It's thicker than the toppers. It makes a good surface.

Neoprene pads and toppers are fairly easy to clean if you lay them out on the driveway. A power washer works great on them! However, I've used mine for years without cleaning. If people don't eat on the tables, or at least don't eat anything that is sticky, and they don't spill sticky drinks on them, a pool table brush after each use keeps them clean enough for a long time. I play 14x/yr, and I can go 2-4 years between washings. If I played weekly, I'd plan to wash them 1-2x/yr.

I've tried the folding table tops. I played in a group where one guy got a folding poker table, but he asked me to bring a topper to put on top because of the hard surface. IMHO, none of those work as well as neoprene.

Of the games I've played in, my pads are at least as good as any other home game I've been in. My experience is that few players actually have dedicated poker tables. The neoprene topper is, I think, the best "poor man's" poker table. It's a very flexible option. You can take it to other venues. They are cheap enough to buy more than one so you can have a different look if that's important to you.

 

[TexRex]

About chips ~

1. Get a cash set and a separate tournament set if you play both. I'm in the never mix the two crowd!
2. Buy more chips than you think you might use. Your game will likely change over time, and if you only have one configuration, you may find yourself dissatisfied and having to buy a whole new set because you thought it would never change.
3. Plan on your game growing, the stakes or stack sizes changing, and if possible, buy for one more table than you really think you can have at your place. Over time, players will change. That may dictate a different chip configuration as the game changes to fit the players. You will want to try different stack sizes. For cash, stakes will likely change from time to time, or you will have more than one stake level for different games. For tournaments, your starting stack sizes will likely change sometimes. In my case, we've tried very aggressive blinds, slow blinds, etc., to get the best mix for our group. I've learned you will never keep all players happy and what you wind up with is a compromise. How aggressive your blinds are, the blind times, starting stacks and the number of players are independent variables that affect how long your tournament lasts. There is a science to it. When you discover what you are doing isn't working as well as you like, having the chips to change quickly is very helpful to solving the issues. (#1 Rule of PCF -- More chips is ALWAYS the answer!)
4. Get chips that are likely to be available again if you need to get more of them. You may need to buy more for more than one reason. Sometimes after you've played in certain lighting conditions, you discover that 2 chips right next to each other don't work so well. It can be hard to know that.
5. A good general rule for chip colors is to have dark, light, dark (doesn't matter which you start with, but think that through before buying!) color contrasts.
6. Seriously consider denominated chips. It eliminates the "how much is the yellow worth again?" It makes life easier. It also requires more thought about your set before you purchase the chips.
7. Use chip values that truly make sense, not just what you like. For example, I played in a game where they had 25/ 50/ 100/ 500/ 1,000/ 5,000/ 10,000/ 50,000 in a mix of styles. The 50 was utterly useless. It wasn't a set -- it was a mix of 4 sets that didn't work well. Here are two pretty logical tournament progressions and you could start somewhere in the middle. [A] .25 - 1 - 5 - 25 - 100 - 500 - 1,000 - 5,000 - 25,000 - 100,000 .25 - 1 - 5 - 25 - 100 - 500 - 2,000 - 10,000 - 50,000 - 250,000. I'm not trying to start a war here, but both work really well. Which is better will depend on exactly what starting stack compared to blinds you use.
   [*]Cash values may not be as critical, but if you do $.50/1, I'd be inclined to use $.25 as your base chip, not $.50. I think .25 - 1 - 5 - 20 or 25 - 100 is easier to work with than .50 - 2.50 - 10 - 50 - 250? who knows? Maybe .50 - 2.00 - 10.00 works well, but changes will be harder than starting with .25.
   

 

[Ragman]

I use the neoprene table toppers. Like you, I can't do a dedicated poker table. I have a kitchen table, a dining room table, and on rare occasions, another hardtop wood table.

For those used to playing on nice poker tables with padded felt (or similar), the neoprene is probably a distant second choice. I understand that, but that isn't always an option.

Compared to a hard top, the neoprene toppers are MUCH better! However, I found they weren't enough. I purchased 2 neoprene pads that complete covers the table, then put the neoprene topper on top. Most players put their chips on the pad and not the topper. Both my tables are 42" wide, so the 35-36" wide topper leaves room on both sides.

The pads are 2MM or 3MM. I like the 3MM better. The two together make a nice padded surface.

The third table I have a Poker Hoody for, and it could go on one of my other tables. too. I have a carpet pad I put on that table to hold it since I've not figured out how to cinch the Hoody properly. I put it on the carpet pad and it keeps it in place. It's thicker than the toppers. It makes a good surface.

Neoprene pads and toppers are fairly easy to clean if you lay them out on the driveway. A power washer works great on them! However, I've used mine for years without cleaning. If people don't eat on the tables, or at least don't eat anything that is sticky, and they don't spill sticky drinks on them, a pool table brush after each use keeps them clean enough for a long time. I play 14x/yr, and I can go 2-4 years between washings. If I played weekly, I'd plan to wash them 1-2x/yr.

I've tried the folding table tops. I played in a group where one guy got a folding poker table, but he asked me to bring a topper to put on top because of the hard surface. IMHO, none of those work as well as neoprene.

Of the games I've played in, my pads are at least as good as any other home game I've been in. My experience is that few players actually have dedicated poker tables. The neoprene topper is, I think, the best "poor man's" poker table. It's a very flexible option. You can take it to other venues. They are cheap enough to buy more than one so you can have a different look if that's important to you.

Very detailed response that is very much appreciated. Thanks for taking the time to write and and showing your work for your opinions!

 

[Ragman]

About chips ~

1. Get a cash set and a separate tournament set if you play both. I'm in the never mix the two crowd!
2. Buy more chips than you think you might use. Your game will likely change over time, and if you only have one configuration, you may find yourself dissatisfied and having to buy a whole new set because you thought it would never change.
3. Plan on your game growing, the stakes or stack sizes changing, and if possible, buy for one more table than you really think you can have at your place. Over time, players will change. That may dictate a different chip configuration as the game changes to fit the players. You will want to try different stack sizes. For cash, stakes will likely change from time to time, or you will have more than one stake level for different games. For tournaments, your starting stack sizes will likely change sometimes. In my case, we've tried very aggressive blinds, slow blinds, etc., to get the best mix for our group. I've learned you will never keep all players happy and what you wind up with is a compromise. How aggressive your blinds are, the blind times, starting stacks and the number of players are independent variables that affect how long your tournament lasts. There is a science to it. When you discover what you are doing isn't working as well as you like, having the chips to change quickly is very helpful to solving the issues. (#1 Rule of PCF -- More chips is ALWAYS the answer!)
4. Get chips that are likely to be available again if you need to get more of them. You may need to buy more for more than one reason. Sometimes after you've played in certain lighting conditions, you discover that 2 chips right next to each other don't work so well. It can be hard to know that.
5. A good general rule for chip colors is to have dark, light, dark (doesn't matter which you start with, but think that through before buying!) color contrasts.
6. Seriously consider denominated chips. It eliminates the "how much is the yellow worth again?" It makes life easier. It also requires more thought about your set before you purchase the chips.
7. Use chip values that truly make sense, not just what you like. For example, I played in a game where they had 25/ 50/ 100/ 500/ 1,000/ 5,000/ 10,000/ 50,000 in a mix of styles. The 50 was utterly useless. It wasn't a set -- it was a mix of 4 sets that didn't work well. Here are two pretty logical tournament progressions and you could start somewhere in the middle. [A] .25 - 1 - 5 - 25 - 100 - 500 - 1,000 - 5,000 - 25,000 - 100,000 .25 - 1 - 5 - 25 - 100 - 500 - 2,000 - 10,000 - 50,000 - 250,000. I'm not trying to start a war here, but both work really well. Which is better will depend on exactly what starting stack compared to blinds you use.
   [*]Cash values may not be as critical, but if you do $.50/1, I'd be inclined to use $.25 as your base chip, not $.50. I think .25 - 1 - 5 - 20 or 25 - 100 is easier to work with than .50 - 2.50 - 10 - 50 - 250? who knows? Maybe .50 - 2.00 - 10.00 works well, but changes will be harder than starting with .25.

Perfect, and all lines up with my current thinking. I'm going to go with Majestics and custom label them. For now I'm probably going to get 3 or 4 (maybe 5) racks of yellows and label them quarters (don't like the pink stock quarters and the color doesn't provide enough contrast over the others), and a rack of reds and label them 5s. From there I'll add in others a rack or two or different colors/denominations at a time as needed. Other than the quarters, my plan is to use all "normal" casino denominations like you describe.

 

[upNdown]

I've mentioned this a few times here, but never seen or heard of anybody else doing it. My buddy ran a game for years with just a piece of carpet on top of the dining table. It worked great, and better than a lot of commercially sold "toppers." Obviously you'd need the right piece of carpet that's dense enough but not too plush. But my point is that WHAT the playing surface is really doesn't matter, as long as you can pitch cards, stack chips, and there's enough padding or give to be able to easily pick up cards and shuffle chips. And that could be anything. Padded rails are nice, but overrated. Speedcloth and gaming suede and the like are great, but totally unnecessary. And people can find places for their drinks. $800 tables are great, but chances are you can get the same playability out of some $30 solution.

 

[Ragman]

I've mentioned this a few times here, but never seen or heard of anybody else doing it. My buddy ran a game for years with just a piece of carpet on top of the dining table. It worked great, and better than a lot of commercially sold "toppers." Obviously you'd need the right piece of carpet that's dense enough but not too plush. But my point is that WHAT the playing surface is really doesn't matter, as long as you can pitch cards, stack chips, and there's enough padding or give to be able to easily pick up cards and shuffle chips. And that could be anything. Padded rails are nice, but overrated. Speedcloth and gaming suede and the like are great, but totally unnecessary. And people can find places for their drinks. $800 tables are great, but chances are you can get the same playability out of some $30 solution.

That is something I hadn't considered but makes a lot of sense. Depending on the type of carpet, it would be possible to mark it with a bet line, etc. Would also be inexpensive if a remnant of what I need is available. Lastly, I could cut it to perfect size. Great idea. If I go this route I'll be sure to post pictures!

 

[JustinInMN]

Ever play stud?
I'm not saying that the 2-4, 3-6, 4-8 structures aren't common - I believe you, and I see those structures discussed here a lot. But I don't understand it, because fewer chips are more efficient. Also it's my opinion that once you get over the novelty of raking one or two giant pots, the excess chips get to be a pain in the butt. That's an opinion, and I wouldn't try to argue that. But I will argue the efficiency point - the game works very well with a 1-2 chip structure. Again, why more?

There are two reasons
1) More chips means more action (at least that the belief)
2) More chips means avoiding single chip ruling issues.

Now I can only speak anecdotally to point one, but my local room (Canterbury Park) spreads mostly limit games (mainly due to state regulation limiting bet size to $100, was $60 until about 6-7 years ago, IIRC). So games with a 4/8 chip structure are seen as looser and anecdotally I would concur. 8/16 is far looser than 6/12 (both played with 2s and 6/12 barely runs anymore.) 20/40 replaced 15/30 a few years ago as well. (Though both games had a rep for being pretty wild.)

The second point is what's important and what really gives limit games their speed. For example, in a 3 chip structure, a player can move 5,6,7 chips more and they all mean raise. A player that moves 1, 2, 3, 4 chips facing a bet is always calling. In a 1-2 structure there is none of this clarity or flexibility. A player that drops an extra chip in the pot is bound to a raise, whereas an extra chip in a 3-6 or 4-8 structure is only a call and raise has to be more deliberate.

 

[JustinInMN]

That makes sense. In a perfect world I’d just have racks and racks of whatever denomination chip fits the small blind best, in the case of a .25/.50 that would be quarters, plus some bigger chips for rebuys and coloring up so people can still see the board over their stacks. The more I think about it, I’d really rather get folks playing .50/1, with the opportunity to play lower if people want to, if a little clunky making change more frequently. Does that change the recommendation any? Should I get a bigger set, like 600?

This is starting to feel like buying a house - if I could just spend 20% more I can get what I really want! Of course, when I move up to that price, Istill need 20% more to get what I really, REALLY want!

Very well put, my mental custom set has ballooned from 1000 to 1800.

That said, although I personally prefer the limit game, I don't think it's a very popular format in home games. I am trying to host a limit game through our "Minneapolis Rounders" poker group on Meetup.com in two weeks, have one player signed up out of hundreds of members in the group. If I set up .25-.50 NL, I can get 6-8 players without sweating a ton.

If you really have a group interested in a limit game @RowdyRawhide and @v1pe are giving you the right advice. Load up on "workhorse" chips (at your stakes quarters are the choice, don't bother with .50 chips) and get a few high value store chips. If I were you I would go for a set of 600: 500 quarters, 75 fives, 25 twenty-fives (just for bulk), for a bank of 1125.

If you are playing .50/1 then this accommodates 45 buy ins of 25, and 20 buy ins before you would even tap the twenty-fives.

If you are playing .25/.50 then your typical buy in would probably be 10-15 and you would have 33-50 buy-ins before tapping the twenty-fives.

I think this would accommodate both stakes well. With regards to the issue of the small blind in a .25/.50 limit game the 50% rule isn't set in stone. (So don't worry about finding 0.125 chips ;P) There is nothing against the rules about making both blinds the same, and that's what I would do if you don't want to mess with anything smaller than quarters as you said. The only real difference with this change is it would get the small blind involved in more hands than otherwise. (They've already essentially "limped", but will also have better pot odds when facing a raise.) I don't consider that significant, and at least the change would be in the direction of increasing action, which is better.

The only real alternative would be to get some nickels and use a .10 or .15 small blind, but in my opinion I don't think that's really worth dedicating any portion of your somewhat tight set for this specific purpose. I'm already pushing you to 600 as it is .

But the main point is focus on "workhorse chips" whether building a no-limit set or a limit set. But in a limit set you can really take the idea further because you really only need two denominations and you only need to make change to break value chips instead of during pots (if you used singles in this case). If you were to decide to do 1000, I would say 8 racks of quarters, 1.5 racks of fives, 0.5 racks of twenty-fives for just in case.