Home game players refuse to chip up? (1 Viewer)

grebe

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My neck of the woods is very clicky.
Its all about popularity and keeping up with the Joneses type crap. I know a lot of people within 2 miles of me that play often but I'm not popular and never will be so I'm not invited.

Wait, did you go to school with this bunch?
1_high-school-musical-main.jpg
 

LotsOfChips

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@Sparkynutz , people here are trying to give you advice on how to properly run a tournament, which might improve the quality of your game and increase your player base. Your repeated response is that you don't really want to follow that advice for a variety of reasons.

Respectfully, it sounds like you really don't want advice, because if you did, you would listen to and follow the advice of experienced members here. Instead you say that you want to maintain your existing chips/structure/(lack of) rules, etc. in order to please some "players" who would be laughed or kicked out of any self-respecting game other than yours.

Honestly, if you don't want advice, please don't post a thread asking for advice. If you do want advice, please listen and learn.

/rant
 

Sparkynutz

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@Sparkynutz , people here are trying to give you advice on how to properly run a tournament, which might improve the quality of your game and increase your player base. Your repeated response is that you don't really want to follow that advice for a variety of reasons.

Respectfully, it sounds like you really don't want advice, because if you did, you would listen to and follow the advice of experienced members here. Instead you say that you want to maintain your existing chips/structure/(lack of) rules, etc. in order to please some "players" who would be laughed or kicked out of any self-respecting game other than yours.

Honestly, if you don't want advice, please don't post a thread asking for advice. If you do want advice, please listen and learn.

/rant
I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. Sorry you don't understand or relate.
I vented and clarified my situation and reasoning I also got some really good feedback and things to implement or atleast try and see what works best when the opportunity comes.
I have never been to or taken part in anything more organized than a fundraiser in a church basement. Everything I have done up until joining this group was wing it. Please understand it may take me a few tries and more mistakes to reach the amazing host status and overflowing attendance many here enjoy. There's still more than one way to skin a cat and there's got to be more than one way to hold a successful small town poker party. I intend to some day figure that out or atleast enjoy my ignorance along the way.
 

justsomedude

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@Sparkynutz , people here are trying to give you advice on how to properly run a tournament, which might improve the quality of your game and increase your player base.

Nailed it.

How many players is this guy losing because of his approach. Honestly, if I was invited to this game, I'd walk out as soon as I saw the (lack of) structure/rules.

Host a non-serious game... you're gonna attract non-serious players. You can't have it both ways. I understand hosting a social/fun game, but even social/fun poker games need proper rules and adequate structure. OP thinks he's appeasing his players, but doesn't realize the damage he's causing to his own game.

Yes, implementing and adhering to hard/firm rules may mean you lose the casual "I don't take poker seriously" people, but you'll gain far more committed/serious/interested players who respect you for adhering to those rules in the long run. Trust me. And you'll all become better players as a result. :tup:
 

Josh Kifer

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The problem is you're changing stakes in the middle of the night. Sounds like you're going from .05/.10 to .25/.25 or .25/.50 within a couple of hours. So the problem is of your own design.

I'd suggest changing the stakes. Get rid of the nickels. Ditch the $5 starting game entirely and go straight to $20 buyins with .25 chips.

Another option is to run two tables: one for the $20 players, and one for the 5-dollar diehards, but with a new house rule... if you switch to the bigger table, you MUST chip up.

Side note: Make house rules. Print them. Post them.
This.

Cash games require no chip up, unless your low on chips.

This is literally just an issue of it's own creating. If you fiddle with the stakes, won't be an issue.
 

Josh Kifer

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This makes no sense. Players don’t have the option to refuse color-ups. It happened as part of the natural course of a tournament.
Also, there’s no logical reason for a player to attempt to refuse a color up. Either he’s an idiot or a jerk.
Yeah, it's not optional.

If I had a player say no... God help them. I am a bastard man.
 

DoubleEagle

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Shuffling with cards up or visible half the time. Bending cards, throwing cards and chips. I rarely get all the chips back finding some on the floor sweeping a few days later. Its not so much anger issues as its just a bunch of monkeys that don't care. Folding out of turn. Most of them want to drink, talk, and play cards 3rd in that order.
Me and the two older guys I played cash games with back in the day want to play cards, talk, eat food and don't drink.
I'm a foodie and so are those two.
We always have good stuff to eat between the 3 of us. The rest rarely bring anything but alcohol.
Might be the worst game I have ever heard of
 

OfficerLovejoy

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This thread is lacking pictures of the chips OP is using - this is a poker chip forum after all. ;)

Oh and agree with everyone. This is a problem that's only fixed by doing a decent tournament structure detached from actual cash values and having / enforcing basic rules.
 

LotsOfChips

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I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. Sorry you don't understand or relate.
I vented and clarified my situation and reasoning I also got some really good feedback and things to implement or atleast try and see what works best when the opportunity comes.
I have never been to or taken part in anything more organized than a fundraiser in a church basement. Everything I have done up until joining this group was wing it. Please understand it may take me a few tries and more mistakes to reach the amazing host status and overflowing attendance many here enjoy. There's still more than one way to skin a cat and there's got to be more than one way to hold a successful small town poker party. I intend to some day figure that out or atleast enjoy my ignorance along the way.
If you won't follow the advice here on how to run a proper tournament, just run cash games. They are easy and don't require any mid-game chip ups or blind changes. People don't have to pay attention as much. Easier for you and others.

If the one player continually flashes the bottom card, announce out loud to everyone at the table what it is, every time it happens. Maybe he will start using a cut card if you do that 10 or 20 times (or you could just grow a pair. and tell him it is not optional) Or quietly use the information to take the guy's money.

If you do decide to run a tourney, spend several days/weeks here researching starting stacks, blinds, structures, etc. Read the TDA rules, and print out a copy. Enforce the rules. Anyone that complains gets a single notice - rules are rules. Second complaint gets invited to leave. Anyone that bends cards or throws chips around gets invited immediately.

Spend a few hours practicing how to shuffle. Honestly, 3-4 hours and you will be a pro. Then take over the dealing at your table. Move the game along. Enforce the rules. Don't be a doormat, otherwise people will wipe their feet on you. Some may not like the new dynamics. Tough luck for them. In time you might even find yourself invited to the "cool kids" game. Personally if that happened I would tell them to take a hike, that their clique is something that you would scrape off your shoe.
 

Pinesol13

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....My neck of the woods is very clicky.
Its all about popularity and keeping up with the Joneses type crap. I know a lot of people within 2 miles of me that play often but I'm not popular and never will be so I'm not invited. Really has nothing to do with how my game is or isn't ran in a small town like mine. It's more about gossip who was where and why would you play with them kinda crap.
Eventually someday I'll find some players and friends that got past high school bs but its a slow process.

Obviously, I can't speak to what your town is like, I'll take your word for it. The only thing I will say, can you be 100% positive that your game has nothing to do with it? It seems to me that someone would gain a reputation, and from what you've told us about your home game, that reputation would not be good, and that could prevent any chance of getting invited to someone elses game.

Might be worth putting some effort into trying to get in to one of these games.
 

moose

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This thread is lacking pictures of the chips OP is using - this is a poker chip forum after all. ;)

Oh and agree with everyone. This is a problem that's only fixed by doing a decent tournament structure detached from actual cash values and having / enforcing basic rules.

Once again, there is seriously nothing wrong with that.

The WSOP main event was run for decades using $10k buyin got you $10k in chips.

There is nothing really wrong with his structure of doubling the blinds every 15 min. He wants to have several games per night. Each game is likely structured to last not much more than an hour. He is not trying to have one tournament per night that lasts several hours. You might think it's better but that is not what he wants. Stop telling him he is not listening, when generally most people in this thread are not listening to him.

He has nickel chips. There are lots of CASINO tournament sets that use a T5 chip. He is not buying more chips. He already stated that. A T5 tournament chip is perfectly fine. Accept it and move on.
 
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Trihonda

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as I’ve already said, if you build it, they will come. I guarantee there are players out there (in your area) that would love some legit, even low stakes, poker.

as I’ve already said, many of us were in your exact same shoes. 15+ years ago, My regular players were horrible with etiquette and our game rules were crappy, and unreal by standards I practice today. However, My game grew up, my understanding of poker grew up, my players (most of those original buddies I played with) eventually fell off the invite list, but that was after years of getting really amazing players to my game. We aren’t high stakes hustlers, it’s just guys who love poker, and we enjoy getting together. My game (even last minute) almost always fill up.

Build the game and environment for the players you want, NOT the other way around.

the reason many of us have said switch to a more normal tourney structure, is that’s what most poker players know, or will play at a casino or bar tournament.

you‘re obviously very frustrated with a number of the players you have, and you should realize YOU are the type of player you want at your game… so don’t cater your game to satisfy the players that are obviously a barrier to growing your game, don’t cater to players that frustrate you. Because those players will frustrate the kind of players you DO want.

now if these guys were amazing, well behaved, and you loved hanging with them, and it’s a regular group, and they all wanted to play for nickels and 1 for 1 denominations, then I’d say cater to them. Otherwise, nope. Take some advice, revamp your structure, get a nice poker timer app for your iPad, wow them with a professional “casino” like poker tourney experience. Have rules, make it fun, make it an event, do a buyin with extra chips awarded for food pantry donations, do a bounty tourney, there are tons of options.

We are here for you, but you gotta be willing to take the advice (I was reluctant at first too).
 

Josh Kifer

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as I’ve already said, if you build it, they will come. I guarantee there are players out there (in your area) that would love some legit, even low stakes, poker.

as I’ve already said, many of us were in your exact same shoes. 15+ years ago, My regular players were horrible with etiquette and our game rules were crappy, and unreal by standards I practice today. However, My game grew up, my understanding of poker grew up, my players (most of those original buddies I played with) eventually fell off the invite list, but that was after years of getting really amazing players to my game. We aren’t high stakes hustlers, it’s just guys who love poker, and we enjoy getting together. My game (even last minute) almost always fill up.

Build the game and environment for the players you want, NOT the other way around.

the reason many of us have said switch to a more normal tourney structure, is that’s what most poker players know, or will play at a casino or bar tournament.

you‘re obviously very frustrated with a number of the players you have, and you should realize YOU are the type of player you want at your game… so don’t cater your game to satisfy the players that are obviously a barrier to growing your game, don’t cater to players that frustrate you. Because those players will frustrate the kind of players you DO want.

now if these guys were amazing, well behaved, and you loved hanging with them, and it’s a regular group, and they all wanted to play for nickels and 1 for 1 denominations, then I’d say cater to them. Otherwise, nope. Take some advice, revamp your structure, get a nice poker timer app for your iPad, wow them with a professional “casino” like poker tourney experience. Have rules, make it fun, make it an event, do a buyin with extra chips awarded for food pantry donations, do a bounty tourney, there are tons of options.

We are here for you, but you gotta be willing to take the advice (I was reluctant at first too).
This is gospel. He's 1000% right.

If you build it, set the standards and rules, and do it in a way where people have fun but feel like it's being ran honestly, they will get it.

Most of us have fought this battle before, but once you get that "core" of players who love the game and keep showing, the drama will start going away.

Good luck dude!
 

TheOffalo

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I agree with a lot of the advice. As trite as it sounds, "Be the change you want to see."

I'm the primary organizer for my regular home game. I introduced Copags (no Copag bashing pls :ROFL: :ROFLMAO:) to the group and "decent" slugged chips w/denoms (Monaco Casino from DPS) to our group, and people were like, "These don't feel as good as the Bicycles I'm used to" or "These chips are too heavy" (we were using dice chips before, so they should be around the same weight) at first.

Then slowly it became, "Wow, the cards are still in great shape after a few games, even Steve couldn't mess them up bending them," and "It's so much easier with the values printed on the chips than try to remember what color was worth what..." (we used to use different sets of chips depending on who hosted--I just organized--so the workhorse chip may change colors depending on what color chips a particular host had the most of).

People hate change. I had to ease people into Scrotum (that's what she said) and other circus games to our mix for dealer's choice. People balked at all of those things at first and now they're semi-regular part of our games. You can help your players get to where you'd like them to be, or at least closer, without hurting friendships or the vibe. It's doable!

Edit: Forgot to add, yes I've since upgraded our game to Fournier cards (WSOP 2012 and Bicycle Prestiges) but I still like the Copags. And I have a bunch of other decks to try out with these guys. Also, I've also upgraded from slugged chips to spirit mold CCs w/custom labels (see profile pic) and am already building up to the next upgrade, a low stakes Paulson cash set.
 
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BPTDirector

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If you know what the bottom card is, cut the deck onto a cut card before anyone deals. Problem solved. As for your ‘friends’ don’t coddle them. If it bothers you change it otherwise accept the fact that you play at the worst game with the worst players in town. Seek better friends. If you know of other games you aren’t invited to, take a risk and ask to be invited by saying something to the effect of ‘ hey I hear you run a great card game, maybe I can come sometime’.
 

grebe

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Obviously, I can't speak to what your town is like, I'll take your word for it.
There is literally a movie about it...everybody is in their own cliques, but then one guy decides he doesnt want to just be a jock, he wants to sing show tunes too! All kinds of ruckus ensues (along with several songs). In the end, it turns out that you can be smart AND a good singer, AND date the basketball coach's son. They are all in this together.


Yes, this is a silly post....going along with the silliness of the entire thread.
 

ChipTalker

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Exactly, guys that don't want to follow organized rules are not guys you want anyway.

My game, my rules.
tumblr_348946e5bd964ab080c52ff05585e27b_c274b469_400.gif
 

jazzV3

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I got some. No-one will use it but me and I suck at shuffling so I'm probably not doing it right and only youtube to go off.
I'm a bit of a fumble fingers but try my best.

Practice makes perfect...! :cool

Plastic and flexible cards make this much easier.

 

CrazyEddie

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You might think it's better but that is not what he wants. Stop telling him he is not listening, when generally most people in this thread are not listening to him.

Agreed. @Sparkynutz , you don't have to change anything about your game if you're happy with it the way it is. What you do need to do, though, is decide whether you want Mister I-Won't-Chip-Up in your game or not. Decide whether you're running your game for him or for you. It's really that simple. You can either put up with his time-wasting nonsense, persuade him to change voluntarily, or enforce chipping up and risk making him unhappy and possibly losing him as a player.

Most people here don't have much advice for you because they would never let someone like that in their game in the first place. Not chipping up isn't an option in most people's tournaments; it's just something that you do, and nobody would be allowed not to. Anyone who made a fuss about it would just be dropped from the invite list without a second thought.

I think @navels has the only real advice in this thread:

My serious advice: just talk the guy before the next game and explain his shenanigans are slowing down the game and you are asking him to color up like everybody else.

And if asking nicely in private doesn't do it, then make a choice: run a game that makes him happy or run a game that makes you happy.
 

Deucekies

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Chipping up happens at the appointed time. At that moment, those chips are out of play. If someone refuses to chip up, they simply forfeit those chips.
 

LeLe

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A good host with a firm standing on the ruling and a good structured will attract players

A host that act like @ss or had players in their game that act like one will only attract more @ss and turn away proper poker player who just want to enjoy the game

I had experience attending game with host/player that act like @ss before and it not a pleasant experience

A lot of good advises we’re been given, it came from host/player that had many years of experience in home game poker which does count for something and not just dust it off just become of “reasons”
 
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This thread gave me a headache.

After reading all of it and taking all of OP’s comments in, I see only one thing he needs to do…. Force the jackass to color up. Stop the game until he does it.
 

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