High Hand suggestions/concerns (1 Viewer)

[joseywales]

First off, a shout out to @Quicksilver-75 for his Majestics raffle. I was fortunate enough to win that raffle, twice actually, and ended up with a really nice set of Majestics, with The Silver Club logo, some custom sports logos, a nice dealer button, and a really nice High Hand button. So thanks for all of that!

So that awesome HH button got me thinking, why not? So tonight I'll start a high hand pot.

To consider:
- we play .25/.50
- we play low stakes. $15 initial buy in.
- we play, self dealt, for 5 hours - what's that 100-125 hands?

My plan:

- .25 from every pot that sees the turn? Or should I go with a minimum dollar amount?

- I realize some players will be tempted to chase, due to the added incentive. However, I don't have many that would chase more than they normally do. Also, maybe chasing isn't a bad thing, to keep the game excited in our "power hour" - that's the last hour where guys are trying to dig out of the hole they've dug for themselves. Maybe some winners will put money in, to catch the HH prize, and that could help the losers?

Any other thoughts/drawbacks/pros, etc.?

 

[manamongkids]

check out these threads https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/high-hands-and-other-promotions.17016/

https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/home-game-high-hand-jackpot-rules.18038/

in a low stakes game. I would consider either taking 25c from every pot and doing an end of the night high hand giveaway. Qualifier is usually good. Maybe a full house or better, must use both hole cards.

if there is not a single full house tonight it will carry over to your next game.

if you average 30 hands/hour. $7.50 per hour will be going into the HH giveaway.

 

[Quicksilver-75]

We usually just collect $5 or $10 from each player who wants to be in it. But raking the pot to fill it may work out better. good luck!

 

[joseywales]

Thanks. I read those other threads as well. Here are my revisions:

- .25 from every hand that sees the flop.
- Full house or better to win 75%
- Quads or Royal Flush takes 100%
- we pay end of night
- both hole cards must play
- showdown not necessary

I'll revise as we go, but I think this is a good place to start.

 

[chipjoker]

We do a $5 buy-in to the high hand pot.
No qualifier
Must go to showdown
You do NOT have to use both hole cards

Players who show up later will also buy in sometimes even after hearing what the high hand is, some chose to not buy-in.. This is nice because players are not forced to be in the high hand side pot.

 

[WedgeRock]

Thanks. I read those other threads as well. Here are my revisions:

- .25 from every hand that sees the flop.
- Full house or better to win 75%
- Quads or Royal Flush takes 100%
- we pay end of night
- both hole cards must play
- showdown not necessary

I'll revise as we go, but I think this is a good place to start.

How about every hand that sees a flop bet. Or a minimum $amount in pot ($3? 4?). At 25c/50c with a PF limp, flop, bet/fold after the flop, are you going to take 25c from a $1 pot (only 50c of which is profit)?

Only issue with not paying it all out the same night is if you don't have the same group next time. And might be an issue if you have late arrivals.

We do a $5 buy-in to the high hand pot.
No qualifier
Must go to showdown
You do NOT have to use both hole cards

Players who show up later will also buy in sometimes even after hearing what the high hand is, some chose to not buy-in.. This is nice because players are not forced to be in the high hand side pot.

I don't like MUST SHOW DOWN because it can affect the action. Player might have to soft play the nuts to make sure there is a showdown. SHOWDOWN or SHOW would be fine in my book.

 

[detroitdad]

I do my HHJP a little differently. Everyone who wants to participate buys in for 10 bucks. I pay it out at the end of the night. No qualifier. The best hand wins. As @WedgeRock states. It does not have to go to showdown which is how I think the best way to handle it.

We play NLHE, Crazy Pineapple, PLO, PLO8, SOHE and or CINCI. If you get your HH in SOHE. Good for you!!!

First time it was in play we had two straight flushes and quads.

 

[joseywales]

We runs a small cash game. Only 10 players total on the list and the core group makes just about every game.

We all arrive and leave at the same time. Just how it's always been.

@detroitdad and I have the same HH button. Nice!

 

[DJ Mack]

Only issue with not paying it all out the same night is if you don't have the same group next time. And might be an issue if you have late arrivals.

My group is never exactly the same week to week or month to month, we're usually up or down a person each time but that's just how it rolls. Also in some states you can run into problems when not all wagered money is paid out in the session. I'm looking at Texas here ... Are you really running a side pot or are you just covering an illegal rake? The old "I'm just holding it for a buddy" excuse when you close the doors with an extra $15 or whatever in your pocket.

 

[joseywales]

Well we had our first go at it. For some reason, as host, I allow topics for debate. Here's where we ended up:

- pull .25 for any hand that sees the flop
- four of a kind or higher wins 100%
- full house wins 75%. 25% rolls to next game
- you only need one card in the hole

5 players. We ended up with $22.00. So 88 hands in 5.25 hours. Just under 17 hands per hour. That includes our pizza break, but still seems slow. We talk too much.

Only one winning hand all night. Ks full of As. That hit first, about half way through the game, and never looked back.

Guys weren't thrilled with idea at first, and as usual the biggest whiner won the money. The HH money made him just over even for the night.

I like it. If nothing else we can improve our dealing times :

Oh. The Majestic, HH button and dealer button continue to being me luck

 

[DJ Mack]

Yeah it does give you an easy method to figure out how many hands were played!

 

[joseywales]

True and you know what, we rabbit hunt nearly every hand, after the fold. This first count shows that those hunts could be costing us 8 hands or more per hour. Even if it's only costing 4/hour, it's still 20 hands for the night that we're losing. Damn...

 

[Mojo1312]

I had a short list of rules to my home game. (8 if I remember correctly) One of them was no rabbit hunting. We also had a HHJ. Player needed to use both hole cards, four of a kind or better to win. Jackpot was updated weekly.

 

[Quicksilver-75]

Uhhhhgggg...rabbit hunting. Do yourself and game a favor. Put a price tag on each card turned. Add it to the bad beat or what-have-you but that is something that should be discouraged at every request.

 

[joseywales]

Uhhhhgggg...rabbit hunting. Do yourself and game a favor. Put a price tag on each card turned. Add it to the bad beat or what-have-you but that is something that should be discouraged at every request.

I hear you. It's a social game, which is how this nonesense started. I think rabbit hunts only encourage chasing. I had the rule initially, but guys want to chase, so fine. But now seeing how many hands we're losing out on, maybe they'll want to pass and see more hands. I'm up 3 weeks in a row, so I'm good

 

[Quicksilver-75]

Well if the chips you won make it into play I'd love to see some pics! I hope they bring you some run-good!

 

[joseywales]

Well if the chips you won make it into play I'd love to see some pics! I hope they bring you some run-good!

I used the dealer button and the HH button last night. In for $15 out for $108. I'd say luck is running just fine with those byttons. I'll get the $1 chips in play next week. We play weird, with green .25 and orange .50. I like your orange $2, so I'm trying to figure that out.

 

[bsdunbar1]

After our weekly league tourney our cash games start up at .50/$1 before midnight and then it changes to $1/$2 after midnight until we quit. We take $1 for every $50 that builds in a pot, so if it is a $150 pot the HHJ gets $3 input. No one misses the $3 out of a pot that size & if the pot only gets to $45 no money is removed. Our weekly cash games are regularly only 1 table.

Quads or better, must use both hole cards and the rest of the normal HHJ rules. Ours carries over from week to week, doesn't matter who plays or who doesn't. Theoretically you could sit down and win it in your first hand without ever inputting $1, as the pot grows it gives people another incentive to stay and play cash.

Our HHJ also travels among a few regulars so if a different league member is hosting, the HHJ is available at all events.

 

[CraigT78]

I hear you. It's a social game, which is how this nonesense started. I think rabbit hunts only encourage chasing. I had the rule initially, but guys want to chase, so fine. But now seeing how many hands we're losing out on, maybe they'll want to pass and see more hands. I'm up 3 weeks in a row, so I'm good

Get some rabbit hunting chips and sell a max of 3 per player or something like that. That way a player must decide he REALLY wants to see what would have came, instead of doing it by habit. You can use the cost of the chips to juice the jackpot or cover your drinks/snacks for hosting.

 

[WedgeRock]

...or cover your drinks/snacks for hosting.

 

[Mental Nomad]

I'm contemplating the following High Hand jackpot for my game:

• one bb raked from any hand that flops into the Jackpot pool
• payouts every 60 minutes if there's a qualifying hand
• two cards in hand to qualify:
  • full house, jacks full or better, gets 1/4 pot
  • quads gets 1/2 pot
  • straight flush gets the full jackpot

... and I roll the pot over to the next game. All jackpot proceeds get paid out to players, so this is not a house rake.

Based on the general odds in seven cards, for every three straight flushes, we should see 17 quadruples, and 80 full houses (jacks or better). These may actually be different when requiring both cards in the hand play, but I haven't thought about that. I'm happy enough with these relative frequencies / rough payouts.

We'll see a lot more quarter-jackpots than big ones, which means the pot will tend to grow, hour by hour, but will definitely get halved and even wiped out from time to time.

A big question I have is this: require showdown, or no?

I'm inclined to award the jackpot any time a qualifier is shown, but to include hands that are voluntarily shown after winning the pot uncontested. So if someone has quads, and bets, and everyone folds, they can still show the quads to claim the jackpot.

Why? Because I think that disturbs the proper play of the hand a lot less than requiring it to get to showdown. And it doesn't really mess too much with people who'd rather not show their hand... because all of these hands are quite rare. Most people will always show quads or better, anyway, because they're so notable.

Thoughts?

 

[WedgeRock]

A big question I have is this: require showdown, or no?

Showdown or show, IMO. For the reasons you stated.

 

[CraigT78]

I'm contemplating the following High Hand jackpot for my game:

• one bb raked from any hand that flops into the Jackpot pool
• payouts every 60 minutes if there's a qualifying hand
• two cards in hand to qualify:
  • full house, jacks full or better, gets 1/4 pot
  • quads gets 1/2 pot
  • straight flush gets the full jackpot

... and I roll the pot over to the next game. All jackpot proceeds get paid out to players, so this is not a house rake.

Based on the general odds in seven cards, for every three straight flushes, we should see 17 quadruples, and 80 full houses (jacks or better). These may actually be different when requiring both cards in the hand play, but I haven't thought about that. I'm happy enough with these relative frequencies / rough payouts.

We'll see a lot more quarter-jackpots than big ones, which means the pot will tend to grow, hour by hour, but will definitely get halved and even wiped out from time to time.

A big question I have is this: require showdown, or no?

I'm inclined to award the jackpot any time a qualifier is shown, but to include hands that are voluntarily shown after winning the pot uncontested. So if someone has quads, and bets, and everyone folds, they can still show the quads to claim the jackpot.

Why? Because I think that disturbs the proper play of the hand a lot less than requiring it to get to showdown. And it doesn't really mess too much with people who'd rather not show their hand... because all of these hands are quite rare. Most people will always show quads or better, anyway, because they're so notable.

Thoughts?

Show >>>Showdown

 

[CraigT78]

I respectfully disagree. If I sell a handful of rabbit hunting chips for a couple of bucks each to help cover a bag of tostitos, some salsa and a bottle of Jack it would hardly be considered a rake.

 

[WedgeRock]

I respectfully disagree. If I sell a handful of rabbit hunting chips for a couple of bucks each to help cover a bag of tostitos, some salsa and a bottle of Jack it would hardly be considered a rake.

Just need to be careful is all... Any money going to the house might be considered a rake, depending on where you live.

Find out up front, unless you like silver bracelets and a free ride in a police car.

 

[Mental Nomad]

Just need to be careful is all... Any money going to the house might be considered a rake, depending on where you live.

For clarity, a rake refers only to taking a percentage of the pot. Hourly charge, admission fees, etc. are not rakes.

But you're right that any money going to the "house" can be considered when determining if the game is an illegal "gambling resort." And while you may or may not be able to argue about whether there's a profit, it's certainly safest to have no proceeds, whatsoever.

Know your state laws to know how much risk you take when playing or hosting.

 

[BGinGA]

I hear you. It's a social game, which is how this nonesense started. I think rabbit hunts only encourage chasing. I had the rule initially, but guys want to chase, so fine. But now seeing how many hands we're losing out on, maybe they'll want to pass and see more hands. I'm up 3 weeks in a row, so I'm good

Get some rabbit hunting chips and sell a max of 3 per player or something like that. That way a player must decide he REALLY wants to see what would have came, instead of doing it by habit. You can use the cost of the chips to juice the jackpot or cover your drinks/snacks for hosting.

One of the guys I used to deal for had a simple rabbit-hunting rule: you pay to see, and you pay everybody who is affected by your time-wasting decision. $1 per card tip to the dealer, plus a $1 bonus dead-money donation to the next pot. Worked for me. Auto-tip if he hunts, more time to earn other tips if he doesn't. Loved the guys who wanted to 'see the flop' anyway after a raise shut everybody down...

 

[Mental Nomad]

I'm really liking that rule. May try it tomorrow night.

 

[Jambine]

For clarity, a rake refers only to taking a percentage of the pot. Hourly charge, admission fees, etc. are not rakes.

But you're right that any money going to the "house" can be considered when determining if the game is an illegal "gambling resort." And while you may or may not be able to argue about whether there's a profit, it's certainly safest to have no proceeds, whatsoever.

Know your state laws to know how much risk you take when playing or hosting.

That is great advice. In Colorado the game is illegal if the house profits in any way.
The money does not have to come out of the pot.

 

[bsdunbar1]

That is great advice. In Colorado the game is illegal if the house profits in any way.
The money does not have to come out of the pot.

Where do you find this info? Everything I find for "gambling" has more to do with "booking" and such