High hand drama at Tampa Hard Rock

Anthony Martino

Straight Flush
Joined
Sep 26, 2015
Messages
7,840
Reaction score
12,876
Location
Tampa, FL
Some drama today at the 1/2 PLO at Tampa Hard Rock

A player flopped quad 2's with a 9. In PLO we HAVE to flop our high hand to qualify for the high hand payout

The river was an Ace, so they refused to qualify his high hand because the hand changed to quad 2's with an Ace.

But because he didn't FLOP that Ace kicker, they say they have to count his highest hand, and can't pay the high hand because his highest hand came on the river

My belief was that they should just put quad 2's with the 9 kicker as his hand on the board

Thoughts?
 

Hornet

Full House
Supporting Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2017
Messages
2,704
Reaction score
7,118
Location
Columbus
Some drama today at the 1/2 PLO at Tampa Hard Rock

A player flopped quad 2's with a 9. In PLO we HAVE to flop our high hand to qualify for the high hand payout

The river was an Ace, so they refused to qualify his high hand because the hand changed to quad 2's with an Ace.

But because he didn't FLOP that Ace kicker, they say they have to count his highest hand, and can't pay the high hand because his highest hand came on the river

My belief was that they should just put quad 2's with the 9 kicker as his hand on the board

Thoughts?
This has happened multiple times at our local casino. The rule is clear. If your hand improves after the flop, you don’t get paid. I don’t like the rule, but everyone is aware of it now.
 

Anthony Martino

Straight Flush
Joined
Sep 26, 2015
Messages
7,840
Reaction score
12,876
Location
Tampa, FL
This has happened multiple times at our local casino. The rule is clear. If your hand improves after the flop, you don’t get paid. I don’t like the rule, but everyone is aware of it now.

Kinda discourages someone from extracting value out of their hand for fear of missing out on a $500 high hand
 

WedgeRock

Royal Flush
Joined
Feb 25, 2016
Messages
14,381
Reaction score
24,119
Location
America's High-Five
If the Casino is paying out the high hand (regardless of what it is), they have nothing to gain by not paying 22229.

If the rules say "highest flopped hand," it's a bummer for 22229, but that's what the rules say.

Maybe the casino should change the name of the promo from HHJ to HFJ.
 

k9dr

Straight Flush
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2014
Messages
9,470
Reaction score
23,755
Location
Florida Gulf Coast
Since it is PLO, he must use 2 cards from his hand. Therefore, the kicker shouldn't matter. If he is using 2-2 and the flop came 2-2-x, it shouldn't matter what the kicker is since he can only use 2 cards. Even if the flop came 2-2-2, he should be able to use his 2 plus the highest remaining card in his hand.
 

Kain8

Flush
Joined
Sep 16, 2016
Messages
1,389
Reaction score
2,567
Location
Regina, Canada
The hand is a FLOPPED four of a kind, what the hell else do they want the players to do to qualify for a bonus? Absolutely gross.
 

WedgeRock

Royal Flush
Joined
Feb 25, 2016
Messages
14,381
Reaction score
24,119
Location
America's High-Five
If the rules aren't tightly written, I agree that the best flopped Omaha hand should be included (if it later improves, you just don't count the improvement).

If the rules are written tightly to address exactly this and say the best hand that didn't improve after the flop, then it sucks for 2222, but you must follow the rules.
 

Natskule

Two Pair
Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 9, 2016
Messages
316
Reaction score
483
Location
Belgrade, Nebraska
Some drama today at the 1/2 PLO at Tampa Hard Rock

A player flopped quad 2's with a 9. In PLO we HAVE to flop our high hand to qualify for the high hand payout

The river was an Ace, so they refused to qualify his high hand because the hand changed to quad 2's with an Ace.

But because he didn't FLOP that Ace kicker, they say they have to count his highest hand, and can't pay the high hand because his highest hand came on the river

My belief was that they should just put quad 2's with the 9 kicker as his hand on the board

Thoughts?
It should count. In the high hand payout, PLO stops after the flop, doesn't matter if his hand improves. It qualified as quad 2s with a 9.

If your PLO hand, for this payout, can not improve with the turn or river, then it cannot become unqualified.

For the purpose of the high hand payout, the turn and river in PLO are meaningless and not considered. That dude is getting screwed over.
 

Hornet

Full House
Supporting Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2017
Messages
2,704
Reaction score
7,118
Location
Columbus
If your PLO hand, for this payout, can not improve with the turn or river, then it cannot become unqualified.
But his PLO hand did improve. He flopped quad deuces with a 9. That improved to quad deuces with an A.

I don’t like the rule, but as long as it’s clearly stated they are enforcing it correctly.

The reason for the qualifier is to equalize the high hand payouts between NLHE and PLO.
 

Natskule

Two Pair
Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 9, 2016
Messages
316
Reaction score
483
Location
Belgrade, Nebraska
But his PLO hand did improve. He flopped quad deuces with a 9. That improved to quad deuces with an A.

I don’t like the rule, but as long as it’s clearly stated they are enforcing it correctly.

The reason for the qualifier is to equalize the high hand payouts between NLHE and PLO.
1. Your right if it is clearly stated in the rules as such than it is ruled on correctly.

2. From a fairness standpoint it doesn't holdup. It is a payout shared across games so the 7 cards in NLHE can be used against the first 7 cards in PLO. If a PLO hand can become unqualified on the turn and river than a NLHE hand should have to withstand conterfeiting with 2 more cards. The contest is not comparing PLO hands to NLHE hands, but the NLHE hand to the first 7 cards dealt in a PLO game.

IMO, without knowing the rules, the hand should qualify as Quad 2s with a 9 kicker, as I think that is within the spirit of the contest.
 

upNdown

Royal Flush
Joined
Aug 8, 2016
Messages
11,271
Reaction score
13,559
Location
boston
Whatever. High hand bonuses are a stupid gimmick - they rake extra money out of each pot to give an inconsequential bonus to a luckbox each hour. But they're totally effective in filling seats. Meh.
 

Anthony Martino

Straight Flush
Joined
Sep 26, 2015
Messages
7,840
Reaction score
12,876
Location
Tampa, FL
UPDATE: Spoke with the floor this afternoon who spoke with room manager In the past they did award based on what we flopped. But they looked at the language of their rule and it mentions "best hand" They stated it will be corrected for next month, but they can't do anything about it this month
 

Anthony Martino

Straight Flush
Joined
Sep 26, 2015
Messages
7,840
Reaction score
12,876
Location
Tampa, FL
UPDATE: POSTED THIS ON FACEBOOK

Headsup that Hard Rock Tampa will pull $2 jackpot drop in 1/2 PLO but making it difficult for players to qualify our high hands

In the past we had to flop our high hand and if the turn or river improved our high hand they didn't matter

Example, you have 9987 and flop is 99T

If the turn and river come

J
A

your hand at showdown was 9999A but for high hands it was 9999T

Last month they switched it, claiming their rules state they have to use your "best hand"

I bitched about it online, was told it was run up to the top (Pablo) and they couldn't fix it this month (July) but they would correct it in August so the turn or river can't screw our high hands

Well, here we are in August, lady flops quads, rivers a bigger kicker and we're told they went in the other direction and that her hand doesn't qualify

So we can't value bet our high hands because we risk losing a high hsnd payout if we mske a better kicker on quads or a higher straight flush

So you essentially need to end your hand on the flop if you want a shog at high hand now
 
Top Bottom