Help with new chip set (1 Viewer)

[crazman]

We recently moved and my wife bought me a nice new BBO poker table for the basement back in December. I've been putting off setting up a game for a few reasons, but the main reason is that I don't want to play with big box store dice chips. I just can't seem to find the "perfect" set and I was hoping the forum can help.

Things I'm looking for:
1. Good quality chip
2. No dollar sign with the denomination. IMO it makes it easier to use for cash and tournaments.
3. "Standard" colors and denominations (1/Blue or White, 5/Red, 25/Green, 100/Black, 500/Purple, 1000/Yellow)
4. Priced somewhere < $750

Anything anyone can do to help me figure this out would be great.

Thanks!

 

[Lemonzest]

are you looking to host 1 table of NLHE? Stakes?

Horseshoe Cincinnati and Horseshoe Cleveland chips are available in bulk. Google those and see what you think.

 

[crazman]

I think I'll start with a set for 1 table NLHE. We usually play 0.25/0.50 with anywhere from $20-$50 buy ins. I figure if I go with a set without the "$" on it, I can use the same chips for cash and tournament. This would, in theory, allow me to spend more on a nicer set because I would only need 1.

In terms of tournaments I only have room for a single table, so I would only have 1 table going.

Originally I was thinking that I would want/need somewhere in the 750-1000 chips, but thinking about it logically now that's probably way too many.

 

[Nex]

1. Good quality chip

So you're limiting to custom ceramics (starting at ~$1/chip) and upwards (casino used Paulsons, custom CPCs).

2. No dollar sign with the denomination. IMO it makes it easier to use for cash and tournaments.

You absolutely do not want to use one set for both cash and tournament. Guy pockets a chip during the tournament, puts it back in play during the cash game, your bank is fucked. Even if you do notice that a chip is missing from your set before you start the next cash game - you won't be able to use your set in peace because you know someone might have that chip and abuse it. Besides, tournaments tend to use different denominations. If you play 0.25/0.50, the only chips that would probably have dual use is your $25 and $100, if you even opt to have the latter denom.

If you don't have the budget for two quality sets I'd recommend getting a quality cash set and buy some cheapo plastic chips for the tournament (for starters - can later still buy another quality set). But do get two different sets for both uses.

I would also not use stock chips for cash games of any kind. Too easy for a player to just buy a couple more chips where you bought them and sneak them into the game. If you do prefer casino used Paulsons, I'd at least relabel them if they are used in cash games. Of course labels can be faked much easier than whole chips, but it adds a hurdle to a potential cheat.

4. Priced somewhere < $750

Custom ceramics are around $1/chip, so you can get 750 with your budget, which should be fine for a one-table cash game.

There is a popular set breakdown floating around geared for 1 table of 0.25/0.50 and up that has 800 chips, so not very far away:
100x$0.25
200x$1
400x$5
80x$25
20x$100
If you shave off the $100s and a handful of $25 it should still work well. Or, if you really think your crew might drain this still quite large chip bank, you can alternatively remove a few $5s and leave the higher denoms as they are.

The Horseshoe chips @Lemonzest was referring to can be found here - https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/february-12th-multi-casino-sale.17972/
Custom labels available from @Gear at 20c-30c/chip.

Originally I was thinking that I would want/need somewhere in the 750-1000 chips, but thinking about it logically now that's probably way too many.

People here will tell you that you can never have enough chips.

But even without being in that extreme, more chips still make sense up to a certain degree. You can get away playing with much less, sure, it technically works. But it comes at a cost: A lot of change-making. More/less chips on the table influences fluency of play. Have too few, and the game slows down for making change so often. Have too many, and the game can slow down because players' stacks (and pots) become hard to count because of the large amount of chips.

1000 chips for one table is absolutely reasonable if you don't want to mess around with making change all the time.

 

[Trihonda]

When designing or crafting a cash set, you want to determine what stakes you will play, how many players, and the amount of money you will buy in for. Then just make sure you have enough chips total.

There are certainly playability factors when it comes to how many of each chip to get.

A general rule is that you don’t want any denomination to be double the previous. In other words It’s not very efficient to have $1, $2, $5, $10 chips in the same set. A better progression would be $.25, $1, $5, $25. This will be More efficient and cost-effective for you.

lastly, and most importantly given your statements above, you must not to get a cash set that doubles as a tournament set, or vice versa. Please resist the urge to do this. I know that when you are new you want something that fits both roles, however there is not a single person who has gone through this that afterwards felt that this was a good idea. It will end badly. And before you say, “but all my friends are Trust worthy”, I can tell you that many errors occur completely by accident and unintentionally. This is a very basic tenant of game security and your players having confidence.

And besides, it’s much more Baller to have a tournament set, then break out another chipset for cash games

 

[JustinInMN]

Welcome to our forum, what a nice wife .

Glad you posted your question, there's a lot of advice on getting new sets. Broadly I just make these points.

1) Spread the denominations out and only use a few. Especially in no limit when you need to count stacks frequently it's easier to count a lot of chips in three denominations than a few in 5.

For example, 6 quarters, 11 singles, 6 fives is 42.50. Much easier to count that 2 quarters, 2 halves, 9 singles, 6 twos, and four fives.

@Trihonda was giving you the right idea on progression.

2) Don't overbuy blind chips. These just sit in stacks and don't get much use other than on the first street. Again, this improves counting time in no limit. I run .25-.50 9 handed with only 100 quarters on the table. It's plenty.

For your stakes invest in ones and fives, and have a few high value store chips so you can trade with big stacks as need.

Also, I am +1 on separating your tournament and cash sets. @Nex was giving you the right idea if you are concerned about stretching your budget. Go cheap on the tournament set to give you the piece of mind on the cash set. You can run a single table tournament on as few as 400 chips and there's nothing wrong with going cheap on those if it helps you get a nicer cash set.

Now for me, your price point screams "semi custom" ceramic chips from @ABC Gifts and Awards

http://abcgiftsandawards.com/poker-chips/custom-poker-chips/?sort=bestselling&page=1

Semi custom meaning there is a pre-worked design but you are able to customize all the text and denominations you want.

For 500+ these chips are $75/100, or for 1000+ $65/100

(Also their full customs go about a dollar each if you want your own design.)

Give your cardroom a name and get the denominations you need. (Quarters, Singles, Fives, and Twenty or Twenty-fives)

Hope this helps.

 

[Beakertwang]

Don't let the PCF crowd spend your life savings for you!

The game, and your friends, are more important than the chips. You know your poker buddies, and your game best. A couple of the guys were almost annoyed with my Showdown chips, because they have denominations on them. "Can't we just do every chip is a nickel?" Seriously. If I bought Paulsons, they would be unimpressed, and would likely be mad at me for telling them not to throw my chips around, and would think I was stupid for spending that kind of money on chips.

So figure out what you need, and what you can afford, then buy that, and enjoy your game. There are "good" chips for significantly less than $1 ea. Majestics, Pharaohs, Nile Club ceramics, etc. The PCF mantra is get samples.

Welcome to the forum!

 

[FDLmold]

The PCF mantra is get samples.

Welcome to the forum!

Agree with this. Second mantra is not to use the same set for cash game and tournament games.

 

[JustinInMN]

Don't let the PCF crowd spend your life savings for you!

In fairness @crazman volunteered a budget of 750, we're honor bound to attempt to spend every nickel.

So figure out what you need, and what you can afford, then buy that, and enjoy your game. There are "good" chips for significantly less than $1 ea. Majestics, Pharaohs, Nile Club ceramics, etc. The PCF mantra is get samples.

Welcome to the forum!

This is great advice and I'm shocked this thread got this far before someone said "get samples."

Fwiw, ABC has a nice sample set for like 10 shipped.

 

[Beakertwang]

In fairness @crazman volunteered a budget of 750, we're honor bound to attempt to spend every nickel.

No doubt--I love spending other people's money!

I was referring to the third reply, which had the OP buying custom ceramics, up to CPC customs, with a $6000 bank for a .25/.50 game. I know some in the PCF crowd would turn up their noses at CC's and cheaper ceramics, but if my sluggers work fine, and CC's are a step up, then CC's must be good chips.

 

[Nex]

Hey, gotta make the best out of the full budget, and plan ahead for future potentially bigger games

CPC customs were only mentioned in answering the first question (good quality or higher).
I wouldn't buy ceramics again after having become a proud owner of a CPC set, but CPCs won't work for OP's budget obviously, and ceramics still have good quality.

 

[Coyote]

Somewhere between China Clays, Ceramics and filthy-dirty casino-used Paulsons lies the answer. Cleaning the latter would have sounded to me anywhere between insane and pathetic a few months ago (ie before joining this forum) - not any more.
Always check the classifieds for nice deals and to get a picture of the used chips market. There are even custom clay CPC sets sold at unbelievably low prices - some without denominations if i remember well.

It will be tough to find good chips without denominations. You should shrink down you budget to find Non-D chips.
Some CCs however (Majestics and Milanos) come also without denominations, as blanks (not in all colours, though).

The fundamental question of course, is which game (tourney/cash, stakes) with how many people and whom exactly.
Same set for cash and tourney (with denominations considered to be cents in cash play) would require a steady game of more-than-brotherly childhood friends, in adequate numbers. Even in that case, to avoid mistakes, you should never play tourney AND cash consecutively or simultaneously under the same roof.
But chances are that you 'll have to always be recruiting new players for the sake of the game, ie letting in your house people you hardly know personally, whom some friend will have brought / recommended.

 

[Rhodeman77]

The Gemaco chips offered by Apache don’t have denominations. They are high quality clay chips.

The Paulson Elites are what the are being marketed as. A lot of them are out of stock currently but they will be ordered again soon.

https://www.apachepokerchips.com/product-category/paulson-poker-chips/

 

[Lemonzest]

The Gemaco chips offered by Apache don’t have denominations. They are high quality clay chips.

The Paulson Elites are what the are being marketed as. A lot of them are out of stock currently but they will be ordered again soon.

https://www.apachepokerchips.com/product-category/paulson-poker-chips/

yep. great option at a great price also really nice to own NEW so you know condition is perfect and no concern about trying to clean em up.

 

[Nex]

Only downside: They can't be customized other than with relabeling (unless you order huge amounts directly from Gemaco).
Should be fine for a quality tournament set however if you like the somewhat simple design.

 

[Irish]

The Gemaco chips offered by Apache don’t have denominations. They are high quality clay chips.

The Paulson Elites are what the are being marketed as. A lot of them are out of stock currently but they will be ordered again soon.

https://www.apachepokerchips.com/product-category/paulson-poker-chips/

^^^ Very much this. Given your requirements/preferences, these are likely your best bet and a great value, great way to dip your toe into the hobby. You may have to wait a few weeks, several denomination are currently out of stock but I believe Apache placed a new order to replenish, they should be arriving any day now IIRC.

 

[allforcharity]

Not all clay is Paulson. There are significant numbers of vintage ASMs out there, "illegals", that could be repurposed by milling and custom labelling. Depending on the acquisition cost per chip (and your tolerance for doing the work yourself or farming it out to someone else), it is possible to get a semi-custom clay chip for reasonable prices. Only downside is that matched edge spots in any quantity are quite rare.

 

[JustinInMN]

I do want to add a little breakdown advice for @crazman.

Do consider how much money is usually in the room and make sure you have enough value in the bank to cover that. Note that the breakdown @Nex proposed is designed to cover .25-.50 through 1-2.

There is something to be said for future proofing, but if there are budget realities, I think most would favor sacrificing quantity before quality. (Unless we're talking limit sets .) If that's the case be realistic about what you need short term. Surely design your set to cover .25-50 and maybe growing into .50-1. You can revisit what you need for 1-2 down the line if you find you need it, and if you can play 1-2 regularly, I don't think finding "chip money" should be a problem.

For .25-.50 my breakdown is 100 quarters, 275 singles, 200 fives, 25 twenty-fives for a bank of 1925. The most in play is 900 and I've never had to break into the twenty-fives. This should be sufficient for your near terms and if getting 600 instead of 800 means you can go for higher quality, then do it.

And then to re-iterate the advice of separating a tournament set (and it's okay to go cheap on tournament chips, imo, but that's because I'm not a huge tournament fan) here's a good breakdown for 400 chips for one table tournaments.

Qty (rounded to 25 if required)
120 (125) * T25
120 (125) * T100
50 (50) * T500
70 (75) * T1000
40 (25) * T5000

This lets you do 10 even stacks of (T25/T100/T500/T1000) of 12/12/5/6 for a T10000 starting stack with enough T1000/T5000 left over for color ups or mega-stacks.

We'll be curious what you decide

 

[Rhodeman77]

I do want to add a little breakdown advice for @crazman.

Do consider how much money is usually in the room and make sure you have enough value in the bank to cover that. Note that the breakdown @Nex proposed is designed to cover .25-.50 through 1-2.

There is something to be said for future proofing, but if there are budget realities, I think most would favor sacrificing quantity before quality. (Unless we're talking limit sets .) If that's the case be realistic about what you need short term. Surely design your set to cover .25-50 and maybe growing into .50-1. You can revisit what you need for 1-2 down the line if you find you need it, and if you can play 1-2 regularly, I don't think finding "chip money" should be a problem.

For .25-.50 my breakdown is 100 quarters, 275 singles, 200 fives, 25 twenty-fives for a bank of 1925. The most in play is 900 and I've never had to break into the twenty-fives. This should be sufficient for your near terms and if getting 600 instead of 800 means you can go for higher quality, then do it.

And then to re-iterate the advice of separating a tournament set (and it's okay to go cheap on tournament chips, imo, but that's because I'm not a huge tournament fan) here's a good breakdown for 400 chips for one table tournaments.

Qty (rounded to 25 if required)
120 (125) * T25
120 (125) * T100
50 (50) * T500
70 (75) * T1000
40 (25) * T5000

This lets you do 10 even stacks of (T25/T100/T500/T1000) of 12/12/5/6 for a T10000 starting stack with enough T1000/T5000 left over for color ups or mega-stacks.

We'll be curious what you decide

Great post! Agree with everything said. 600 chips will cover a single table game if it is the correct breakdown if that is what you can afford. The extra chips would be for future proofing the set.

 

[crazman]

WOW. Last night I was sitting watching the WSOP ME and decided to post here around midnight local time. I NEVER expected to log in today and see this kind of response. Thank you everyone.

After reading through the posts I think I've made a few decisions.

Based on everyone's suggestions, I'm not going to get a single cash and tournament set. So, for now, I'm going to focus on a cash game set.

First thought is that we usually play 0.25/0.50 NL with initial buy in anywhere between $20 to $50.

Starting Stack Qty
$0.25 - 20
$1 - 20
$5 - 5

If i expand this out to 9 players I get:
$0.25 - 180
$1 - 180
$5 - 45
Total - 405

I also want to have some extra chips for rebuys, bigger games, etc. So I'm thinking of the following totals:
$0.25 - 200
$1 - 200
$5 - 60
$25 - 40
Total - 500

What do you think? I kind of feel like I have too many $0.25 but I'm not sure.

 

[Rhodeman77]

WOW. Last night I was sitting watching the WSOP ME and decided to post here around midnight local time. I NEVER expected to log in today and see this kind of response. Thank you everyone.

After reading through the posts I think I've made a few decisions.

Based on everyone's suggestions, I'm not going to get a single cash and tournament set. So, for now, I'm going to focus on a cash game set.

First thought is that we usually play 0.25/0.50 NL with initial buy in anywhere between $20 to $50.

Starting Stack Qty
$0.25 - 20
$1 - 20
$5 - 5

If i expand this out to 9 players I get:
$0.25 - 180
$1 - 180
$5 - 45
Total - 405

I also want to have some extra chips for rebuys, bigger games, etc. So I'm thinking of the following totals:
$0.25 - 200
$1 - 200
$5 - 60
$25 - 40
Total - 500

What do you think? I kind of feel like I have too many $0.25 but I'm not sure.

A lot of us go with just 100 fracs per table. Just give 20 to the first 5 people that buy in then the rest can get some from the table when they sit down. 20 per player is a lot and means most of them will sit in the back of most players stacks not getting used.

Add the extra chips to your $5’s total. I would recommend at least 200 of them for a 25/50c game.

 

[hdgeno]

I'd stick to a rack of quarters, and then buy more $1's and $5's. If wanting to stick to 500 chips I would prolly go 100-200-160-40. 12 quarters for each starting stack works just fine

edit: looks like Rhodeman beat me to it

 

[Nex]

You'll hear both opinions on the amount of 25c chips.
Some say more 25c chips lead to lower bets while fewer 25c chips make people tend to round up whatever they want to bet to the next dollar. 12 per player should be the minimum though. I like having more, just in case. But if your budget is tight you're probably better off with sticking to the lower amount.

Regarding your breakdown, I'd suggest adding in more $5s.

 

[JerseyGigolo]

I'm shocked this thread got this far before someone said "get samples."

Agree with this ^^

And welcome to the forum!

 

[JustinInMN]

What do you think? I kind of feel like I have too many $0.25 but I'm not sure.

Trust this instinct. I overbought blind chips in my first set and it just makes counting needlessly difficult. I would go with the breakout you have and just do 100 more fives and 100 fewer quarters for a set of 500.

By my count that's a bank of 2025. Plenty for .25-.50 and still some room to grow.

 

[TexRex]

You will get two different schools of thought on the lowest chip.

If you are limited to a set of 500, I'd tend to have more of the higher value chips. If you had 10 players buying in for 50, I'd prefer to see a total bank of more than 2 re-buys each. One reason is your game may grow, or the stakes may increase.

I'd look at the following:
$.25 -- 100-125
$1 -- 100-200
$5 -- 100
$20 or $25 (I prefer $20 for cash) -- 75-100

If you could expand the set to 750 chips, then I'd add more $1 and $5 chips, and maybe a few $100.

A bigger bank gives you more flexibility.

Another rule I've incorporated is buying for 10 players. I don't disagree with a min of 12 each for the lower chip, but you could get by with as few as 10. With 120, it only gets fewer than 12 when you have 9-10 players.

 

[crazman]

I worked my original breakdown based on everyone's feedback to eliminate some of the $0.25 and added some more $5.

Starting stack would look like:
$0.25 - 12
$1 - 22
$5 - 5

With 9 players I would need a minimum of:
$0.25 - 108
$1 - 198
$5 - 45

From what I can see, a lot of the site's that I've looked at sell in batches of 25. So I expanded this to:

$0.25 - 125
$1 - 250
$5 - 100
$25 - 25

Honestly, I don't see these games getting to the point where I'll need $100 chips any time soon. Worst case, I can always add on more $25 and $100 chips down the line if necessary.

Now for the hard part. What chips do I end up buying. My table is black, so I want something that has colors that will "pop". A few months back I started designing chips on CPC and I LOVED them, but they came out to almost $3/chip, which doesn't fit the budget. I'm thinking that I'll order samples of the Showdown, Majestic, Milano and Pharaoh's from Apache to get a better idea of look and feel. Most of what I read about the company makes them sound pretty reliable and like they provide a good, quality product.

Thanks again everyone!

 

[JustinInMN]

If you are only getting 500, I still say custom ceramics from @ABC Gifts and Awards are your best bet and well under your budget at 1.04 each. You can probably take a lot of your decsign elements too. Printing on ceramics is very flexible.

Semi custom would save you more at .75 each if you are happy with one of their designs.

If I wasn't holding out to do my photo chips on ceramic hybrids this is what I would do.

http://abcgiftsandawards.com/palmas-custom-poker-chips/

You can get custom lettering and any breakdown so long as you get a minimum of 20 chips per denomination. (And I would tweak your breakdown rounding to the nearest 20 for easy counting.)

 

[codeman00]

I would focus on buying a stock China clay chipset like Majestics for your tournament set since good quality high denomination chips are very expensive. You can probably find a great deal in the classified forum.

I would then spend a majority of your money on good more expensive cash chips of your choice since the chips are much more plentiful and cheaper in the stakes range that you’re looking for.

If you found some deals I think you would be right in your price range and not use the same chips for both tournaments and cash.

 

[codeman00]

$240. Tournament problem solved and still $500 left for a nice Paulson Horseshoe cash set.

https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/fs-majestic-tourney-set-used-stl-casino-fracs.31589/