Help with chips breaking!

pipdenny

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Hello all,

I have a few concerns and questions about some of my chips breaking. Please let me know if this thread is more suited for the Chip Maintenance forum.

I bought the Apache 3800 from HF and have 2 layers of racks stacked on each other for a total of 8 racks:

no2.JPG



However, I discovered several chips on the bottom racks have been breaking/cracking in the same way/pattern.

I think this is due to the chips not reaching the bottom of the racks. There is a gap at the bottom of each barrel, and there are two points of pressure applied from the racks on top as well as with the lid being closed (see red arrows below)

IMG-0737.JPG



IMG-0735.JPG


These racks came with lids, so now I want to store/transport them with the lids on to protect the chips from the weight of the racks above. However, they no longer fit into the Apache 3800 (the lid will no longer close).

I am playing with the following options, and am wondering if anyone here has ran into a similar issue or otherwise has some insight for me:

1) try to find racks which will fit these chips better such that the barrels lie flat on the bottom
2) glue some strips of foam to the bottom of each barrel in the racks so that the bottom of the chips rest on the foam
3) Buy a birdcage style case, a 1000 chip capacity that will fit the height of 4 racks with their lids (either the versa or an acrylic one)
4) Buy the larger Apache case and store the chips with their lids
5) get the versa aluminum briefcase and forget the racks altogether

Here is what the 8 racks look like with the lids on. Does anyone know if this will fit in a 1000-chip birdcage?

IMG-0732.JPG


As always, thank you all for the help and advice.
Since joining this forum I've had such a blast learning from you all. I am really glad I found this community!
 

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BearMetal

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It sounds like the problem is the ill-fitting racks. I used an Apache 3800 case with my China Clay Royals for 8 months (800 chips, 2 layers) and saw no problems with Bud Jones racks. They fit a LOT better than the rando 43mm racks I got at first.

I don't think a 1000 chip birdcage will help you here. If the racks are putting pressure on the chips, stacking them high will still put pressure on them.
 

mtl mile end

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Spacers?

EDIT Reread OP. Bottom spacers like suggestion #2 would help, but you need to stop the pressure from the rack edge. If the fit is tight, the bottom spacers might do it, but if there's wiggle, I'd put in a more standard spacer on the ends.
 
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pipdenny

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@BearMetal I had no idea that racks were that different. I guess I assumed that 39mm is 39mm and that all racks were pretty much the same. Thank you! Maybe I can do a thread search and see if anyone has a suggestion for a rack that would be perfect for CPS.

As for the birdcage, I meant that I'd now want to use the racks with their lids on so that there is no longer pressure on the chips. I am just not sure if the extra height and width gained from the lids would fit in a birdcage.
 

pipdenny

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Spacers?

EDIT Reread OP. Bottom spacers like suggestion #2 would help, but you need to stop the pressure from the rack edge. If the fir is tight, the bottom spacers might do it, but if there's wiggle, I'd put in a more standard spacers on the ends.

There is definitely wiggle and I didn't know this was a problem. There is not enough space to put 1 more chip in each rack. I assume that spacers are thinner and are made for this purpose. I'll do some more research on thise.

Thank you!
 
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BearMetal

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I had no idea that racks were that different. I guess I assumed that 39mm is 39mm and that all racks were pretty much the same. Thank you! Maybe I can do a thread search and see if anyone has a suggestion for a rack that would be perfect for CPS.

Oh yes. I have at least 4 different kinds of 39mm and they each fit different 39mm chips differently.
 

pipdenny

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some more info: The racks/lids are GSE brand

edit: It looks like 4 racks with lids is almost the same height as 5 racks with no lid. So a 1000-chip birdcage might be what I'm after.
I just wonder if the slightly extra 'girth' from the lids would be too much.

IMG-0741.JPG
 
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BGinGA

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Hello all,

I have a few concerns and questions about some of my chips breaking. Please let me know if this thread is more suited for the Chip Maintenance forum.

I bought the Apache 3800 from HF and have 2 layers of racks stacked on each other for a total of 8 racks:

View attachment 475707


However, I discovered several chips on the bottom racks have been breaking/cracking in the same way/pattern.

I think this is due to the chips not reaching the bottom of the racks. There is a gap at the bottom of each barrel, and there are two points of pressure applied from the racks on top as well as with the lid being closed (see red arrows below)

View attachment 475712


View attachment 475710

These racks came with lids, so now I want to store/transport them with the lids on to protect the chips from the weight of the racks above. However, they no longer fit into the Apache 3800 (the lid will no longer close).

I am playing with the following options, and am wondering if anyone here has ran into a similar issue or otherwise has some insight for me:

1) try to find racks which will fit these chips better such that the barrels lie flat on the bottom
2) glue some strips of foam to the bottom of each barrel in the racks so that the bottom of the chips rest on the foam
3) Buy a birdcage style case, a 1000 chip capacity that will fit the height of 4 racks with their lids (either the versa or an acrylic one)
4) Buy the larger Apache case and store the chips with their lids
5) get the versa aluminum briefcase and forget the racks altogether

Here is what the 8 racks look like with the lids on. Does anyone know if this will fit in a 1000-chip birdcage?

View attachment 475709

As always, thank you all for the help and advice.
Since joining this forum I've had such a blast learning from you all. I am really glad I found this community!
You need different racks for storage. Continuing to use those will create additional damage in the future.

I'd recommend getting 39mm Chipco racks from @ABC Gifts and Awards. The 67.7mm Key West racks from @dennis63 should also work well.
 

pipdenny

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You need different racks for storage. Continuing to use those will create additional damage in the future.

I'd recommend getting 39mm Chipco racks from @ABC Gifts and Awards. The 67.7mm Key West racks from @dennis63 should also work well.

Thank you!
so getting those chipco racks will solve this problem by allowing the chips to sit with their bottoms making contact with the rack? Would there still be concern about the pressure from the racks above/the closed lid of the apache case? Will adding spacers to take up any remaining space in the rack be helpful as well?

I checked the ABC website but couldn't find the chipco racks. I found this from Apache: https://www.apachepokerchips.com/product/chipco-poker-chip-rack/
Are these the same?

And one laaaaast question. I bought a cash set of Pharaoh china clay which also do not sit well in the racks I bought. With the chipco racks work for those as well?

Thank you for your guidance and wisdom as always, especially with my endless questions. it is hugely appreciated!
 

pipdenny

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After some further thread-perusing, I am starting to understand the significance of the barrel length of racks (66.7 vs 67.7)

I just checked and the racked I bought are advertised at 70mm!

In reading @BGinGA 's reply I gather that a 67.7mm rack would be the best for my CPS chips (and possibly my CC Pharaohs as well), however I am still unclear as to how the rack barrel length is related to the diameter of the slots. I presume I need a larger diameter so that my chips make contact with the bottom of the rack. As far as I can tell, diameter is not usually stated in rack specifications.

Here is what I found in 67.7mm:

1) Key west (as suggested): https://www.keywestresortcasino.com/buy-casino-chips-racks--storage.html
2) spinetti's (most expensive option): https://spinettisgaming.com/collect...-39mm-chips-66-7mm-insert?variant=14885898692
3) customizedpokerchips (is this ABC as well?): https://www.customizedpokerchips.co...c-chip-trays-set-of-10?variant=12434832490568

I assume all of these are extremely similar, so I may go for the most economical option (key west).

NOTE: the apache "Chipco" that I linked in the previous post are 66.7mm and I assume they will not work for me.
 

pipdenny

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Update:

I ordered some 67.7mm Chipco racks from BRPro Poker, however there is still a significant gap between the barrel of chips and the bottom of the rack (illustrated in the pic in the OP with the red arrows). The barrel length is a little shorter so the chips don't lean as much, but they do lean a little bit.

Will the slightly shorter barrel length of these racks help with this problem? Should I continue my search for racks in which the bottom of the chips make contact with the rack?
 

One Eyed Dollar

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Do you have a caliper that you can use to measure the diameter of your chips? You can get a cheap one at Harbor Freight if you don't have one. I don't have any of those CPS chips to measure, sorry. 39mm chips can vary in diameter up to almost 40mm actually. Racks don't report the diameter and it's harder to measure the racks than the chips. I mostly use trial and error with different chip sizes to figure out the diameter of the rack. Just last night I was checking Chipco racks and estimate their diameter to be about 39.2 to 39.5mm. My Samurai Palace chips are 39.7mm in diameter and sat on the two edges in the Chipco rack like your chips. A 39.1mm Paulson chip sat flat on the bottom.

I've been modeling the 3D printed racks in my store for a 39.8mm diameter for 39mm chips. This is overkill for a lot of chips, but there are quite a few BCC, China clay, and ceramic chips that fall between 39 and 40mm.

Another option to help your case close is to use a shorter rack for the bottom layer. There are some acrylic racks like this, but they are harder to find. Right now the only size I have in my store is for 39mm x 71mm wide chips for the really thick 8V China Clay chips, but this shows the idea:
https://3d3p.square.site/product/71mm-wide-rack-for-39mm-chips/7?cs=true

I will be making flat bottom racks in other sizes too. Not trying to push my wares, but I wanted to let you know there are some other options out there. I also make some spacers to make the chips fit the rack better and reduce wiggle, which might help.

edit: This stack has one of the shorter flat bottom racks at the bottom:

 
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pipdenny

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Do you have a caliper that you can use to measure the diameter of your chips? You can get a cheap one at Harbor Freight if you don't have one. I don't have any of those CPS chips to measure, sorry. 39mm chips can vary in diameter up to almost 40mm actually. Racks don't report the diameter and it's harder to measure the racks than the chips. I mostly use trial and error with different chip sizes to figure out the diameter of the rack. Just last night I was checking Chipco racks and estimate their diameter to be about 39.2 to 39.5mm. My Samurai Palace chips are 39.7mm in diameter and sat on the two edges in the Chipco rack like your chips. A 39.1mm Paulson chip sat flat on the bottom.

I've been modeling the 3D printed racks in my store for a 39.8mm diameter for 39mm chips. This is overkill for a lot of chips, but there are quite a few BCC, China clay, and ceramic chips that fall between 39 and 40mm.

Another option to help your case close is to use a shorter rack for the bottom layer. There are some acrylic racks like this, but they are harder to find. Right now the only size I have in my store is for 39mm x 71mm wide chips for the really thick 8V China Clay chips, but this shows the idea:
https://3d3p.square.site/product/71mm-wide-rack-for-39mm-chips/7?cs=true

I will be making flat bottom racks in other sizes too. Not trying to push my wares, but I wanted to let you know there are some other options out there. I also make some spacers to make the chips fit the rack better and reduce wiggle, which might help.

edit: This stack has one of the shorter flat bottom racks at the bottom:


I do not have a caliper, but here are some pictures that show the diameter of these CPS chips versus some paulsons (or what I assume are paulsons - Wynn $1 chips from vegas)

IMG-0776.JPG


IMG-0777.JPG


IMG-0778.JPG


The Wynn chips sit flat on the bottom, but the CPS chips sit no better than with the cheap rack.

As for the barrel length, there is definitely still wiggle, but when i put a 0.9mm guitar pick in there it's nice and snug.
 

One Eyed Dollar

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Wow, those are pretty large. It might be tough to find a rack that those will sit in properly. Something like the Bud Jones boxes might be the best option to reduce stacking height and take the weight off the chips.
 

pipdenny

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Oh boy, well perhaps I will try to find some 1-2mm thick foam and glue some strips to the bottom of the racks so that the chips rest on the foam rather than the edges. I'll also wedge some more guitar picks in there to get rid of the wiggle.

For now I'll find a place to keep them out and unstacked so as not to incur any more damages. Maybe I'll hit the poker gear part of the forum to see if anyone knows of a rack that will suit these chips.

Thanks all!
 

allforcharity

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Are these 43mm only, and might that be too big? (chips rattling around)

Yes, they will rattle a tiny bit. But since the racks are completely covered and stackable, there is no extra pressure on the chips themselves. There isn't so much extra room that the barrels wouldn't stay neatly in place.
 

nezara

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I think they work well for anything in the 39-43mm range. Lots of people keep their 39mm chips in them which are smaller than your chips.
 

BearMetal

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I think they work well for anything in the 39-43mm range. Lots of people keep their 39mm chips in them which are smaller than your chips.

I have many Paulson 39mm chips in matsui covered racks. Don't expect to throw the birdcage in your car and drive around, but they are fine for storage.
 

WedgeRock

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I was thinking Matsui racks too.

Just based on the images, I would guess those CPS are 40mm... That's why you're having an issue in 39mm racks. Any 43mm rack would do fine (@Apache sells a Chipco suits mold), but as was mentioned, the Matsui racks have covers, so there is no weight on the chips from the top.

Glgl.
 

Poker Zombie

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Using the racks I picked up at Spinetti's. I think these are just Brybelly racks - no markings or identifiers. They fit perfectly.

2020-06-19 09.34.20.jpg
 

pipdenny

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I think I will just try to make these work. They fit my CPC sample set absolutely perfectly, so when I one day get a set these will be here.

For now, I found some extra bits of leather and I cut some strips to place at the bottom of the racks.

leather2.JPG


leather.JPG


Now, the chips no longer rest on the edges, but rather on the leather. The leather has a tiny bit of give to it as well, but not much.
Is this a terrible idea? All the force is now on the 1" strip of leather and there are small gaps on either side as illustrated in the picture. When I compress the chips on the leather, they barely just make contact with the edges.

Thank again everyone for the help!
 

BearMetal

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My 7yo daughter to me: "Dad, my bed sheet has a hole in it!"

Me: "That's called free ventilation. Deal with it"

My Paulsons: "There's a gap of 6 microns between us and the edge of the rack"

Me: "ZOMG!!! SOMEONE GET ME SOME MATSUI RACKS STAT!"

To each his own. I'd be worried about the leather compressing over time and just not fitting right. Get the better fitting racks. The chippies deserve it.
 

pipdenny

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You're right.
I went ahead and ordered some from spinetti's as per @Poker Zombie 's post.

I really hope these are the one's I'm looking for. I'll hold on to the chipco's until they arrive, and one or both of the rack sets will need to be returned. Perhaps I can sell them for a little discount on the classifieds to help out some fellow chippers.
 

pipdenny

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Unfortunately the CPS chips also did not fit the racks from spinetti's.

I noticed that all my china clay samples were also quite a bit larger than the chips from Wynn and my CPC samples.

There must be a consensus on a rack that can accommodate these larger CC chips.

Unless it surely would be a terrible idea, I think I will just do my leather strip idea and hope for the best :banghead:
 
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hdgeno

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Unfortunately the CPS chips also did not fit the racks from spinetti's.

I noticed that all my china clay samples were also quite a bit larger than the chips from Wynn and my CPC samples.

There must be a consensus on a rack that can accommodate these larger CC chips.

Unless it surely would be a terrible idea, I think I will just do my leather strip idea and hope for the best :banghead:

There was a consensus, Matsui racks. You’ve probably spent almost as much already than if you had just gotten them right away.

It’s also hard to help when there isn’t a single measurement of your chips posted in this thread.
 

Poker Zombie

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It's very odd. It seems as if your CPS chips have spent less time on the lathe. I am unfamiliar with this syndrome, but China clay = Chinese quality. :(
 
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