Help me with my first Gun Purchases (2 Viewers)

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Josh Kifer said:
Kimbers used to be such nice pistols, boy did they go downhill over the years.
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After doing some Googling I finally remember the problem my dad's Kimber 1911 had...

In the early aughts Kimber began implementing external extractors on their 1911s. They had terrible reliability issues and FTFs, stovepipes, etc. Their warranty/service/repair rates skyrocketed. And after terrible complaints/press, Kimber finally went back to internal extractors, and the problems seem to have corrected themselves.

My dad's 1911 has the external extractor. :tdown: Although it's my understanding that if you have an early 2000's 1911 and send it in to Kimber for any type of service, they'll swap it with an internal extractor (whether your request it or not).
 
justsomedude said:
After doing some Googling I finally remember the problem my dad's Kimber 1911 had...

In the early aughts Kimber began implementing external extractors on their 1911s. They had terrible reliability issues and FTFs, stovepipes, etc. Their warranty/service/repair rates skyrocketed. And after terrible complaints/press, Kimber finally went back to internal extractors, and the problems seem to have corrected themselves.

My dad's 1911 has the external extractor. :tdown: Although it's my understanding that if you have an early 2000's 1911 and send it in to Kimber for any type of service, they'll swap it with an internal extractor (whether your request it or not).
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Yup. They also moved to MIM parts, and alot more burr issues. The Clackamas ones are really great guns.
 
Josh Kifer said:
View attachment 436101
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Does the reduced recoil really have a noticeable impact?

-- I know virtually nothing of firearms and ammo. Likely will get a Remington 870 12 gauge soon. Although for home-defense am thinking about starting with a 870 Youth 20 gauge as it is (1) easier to handle and (2) a better gun for my teenagers to potentially start with.

Any shotgun advice for a novice? I've watched tons of youtube videos. Been years since I've used any firearms and virtually no experience. (clay shooting with 20 gauge once, and messing around with friends (who were avid hunters) when i was much younger.)
 
Sparty said:
Does the reduced recoil really have a noticeable impact?

-- I know virtually nothing of firearms and ammo. Likely will get a Remington 870 12 gauge soon. Although for home-defense am thinking about starting with a 870 Youth 20 gauge as it is (1) easier to handle and (2) a better gun for my teenagers to potentially start with.

Any shotgun advice for a novice? I've watched tons of youtube videos. Been years since I've used any firearms and virtually no experience. (clay shooting with 20 gauge once, and messing around with friends (who were avid hunters) when i was much younger.
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Sure. It kicks less. Anyone can shoot a 12 gauge. Heck, anyone can shoot a. 45-70. Just takes time and shooting alot. 12 is the standard. But you can start with birdshot, toss on a recoil pad. Move up to 00. Then slugs. It's just getting used to handling the firearm, the placement of the stock and getting used to pressing it into your shoulder rather then holding against it.

The best thing you can do is shoot. Have fun.
 
Haven't seen anything about ammo, but if you're going to be using at the house I'd recommend hollow points over full metal jacket.

Edit: to reduce risk of collateral damage
 
In Southern Michigan we have to hunt deer with shotguns. We always used 12 ga with 2 3/4" slugs over buckshot, because we were shooting at an average of 50 yards. My buddy and I decided to go to 3" slugs, so we could shoot out to 100 yards. You want to talk about recoil! After shooting 10 rounds to sight in my gun at 100 yards, I quickly decided to change back to 2 3/4". No recoil pad and my shoulder was bruised. I had never suffered from anticipation of recoil before, but that got me.
 
TheChipRoom said:
In Southern Michigan we have to hunt deer with shotguns. We always used 12 ga with 2 3/4" slugs over buckshot, because we were shooting at an average of 50 yards. My buddy and I decided to go to 3" slugs, so we could shoot out to 100 yards. You want to talk about recoil! After shooting 10 rounds to sight in my gun at 100 yards, I quickly decided to change back to 2 3/4". No recoil pad and my shoulder was bruised. I had never suffered from anticipation of recoil before, but that got me.
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I just looked up the recoil energy and a 2 3/4", 1 1/4 oz slug produces 32 ft lbs of recoil energy. A 3", 1 5/8 oz slug produces 52 ft lbs of recoil energy. No wonder it hurt so much.
 
Hi Guys here is an Update. I finally got my FID card this week and got my permits for a few Handguns. In NJ that means I can get multiple Handguns, but I have to buy one and wait 30 days then I can get another with each permit, and then wait again. With an FID Card I do not need to get a permit and wait for Shotguns and Rifles and I can get those at any time. I set up my appointment with a Firearms dealer in NJ and went down to the store today to look at the Smith and Wesson M&P line. However, I did not like it as much as I thought I would. I didn't like the feel of it and they didn't have any safety on the ones they had in stock. I also looked at Sig Sauers, Glocks, and F&N's. And the Gun I bought Today? DRUM Roll.............

None of the above. Turns out I was showed a Walther PPQ M2 9MM Hand Gun. I loved the feel and the grip of the Gun in my hands. Everything compared to the others I thought was better. And it was easiest of the Guns to click the Barrel into place. It also has the ridges in the front to attach a light or a laser. Has the double trigger and internal safety. It is only 10+1 here in NJ for the rounds. While we could not shoot it at their range as all public ranges are closed I felt I had enough information to go on. I decided to call two of my friends in LE who actually steered me towards the S&W they told me that the Walther is a nicer gun and is a step up from the S&W. I then compared some pricing to make sure their pricing was not that out of whack. May is my Birthday month on the 14th so when I got home the wife agreed since I already got it that it will be my own self bought Birthday present. I am very good with that. The pricing was a little more than the original firearm I was looking at, but screw it. Everyone between the Salesman and all my friends called it the "James Bond" Gun. I never knew that Walther was the brand he used. They also had 25% of any accessories because I got a gun there. I got the RFID gun safe, Cleaning Kit, Fast Loader, and Electronic Ear Protection. Oh yeah and Ammo. While I couldn't get it today because of the "Cool Down" period I can get it next week. I can't wait. Any thoughts on the Walther?

When I go back to get the gun I was going to get more Ammo as they only let you get two boxes of ammo per day. I got the standard 9MM ammo. One question do any of you guys think I should get or need the home defense ammo? That Ammo is what are Hollow Point Bullets. The salesman asked me like twice if I was interested in it. The guy told me it is legal to own, but is against the law to have when committing a crime. No problem there.

Thanks for everyone's help with their suggestions and input,
Mike
 
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Wow, weird. It should be so much simpler. You should go to a range and rent a gun and see how it goes, then rent another, and another. don't go by what some gun nut at the gun store tells you. a glock or a CZ should have been good enough. Walther is fine - James bond gun.... that was a .380... sheesh,

These f**ing liberal states need to loosen shit up, it's a gun not a nuclear weapon. I had one when I was 12. I carry every day- better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.

I have 1200 rounds of 9mm, that's good for 3 trips to the range. You need to use the shit to be a better gun owner- practice, practice, practice. I just bought 600 rounds for my AR, I need 2000 more. Fucking pussies, the whole lot of 'em.
 
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in my mind i was like, "oh sure the james bond gun" ~in the classics it was a PPK but IIRC, pierce brosnan had a ppq
 
Nuhockey said:
Hi Guys here is an Update. I finally got my FID card this week and got my permits for a few Handguns. In NJ that means I can get multiple Handguns, but I have to buy one and wait 30 days then I can get another with each permit, and then wait again. With an FID Card I do not need to get a permit and wait for Shotguns and Rifles and I can get those at any time. I set up my appointment with a Firearms dealer in NJ and went down to the store today to look at the Smith and Wesson M&P line. However, I did not like it as much as I thought I would. I didn't like the feel of it and they didn't have any safety on the ones they had in stock. I also looked at Sig Sauers, Glocks, and F&N's. And the Gun I bought Today? DRUM Roll.............

None of the above. Turns out I was showed a Walther PPQ M2 9MM Hand Gun. I loved the feel and the grip of the Gun in my hands. Everything compared to the others I thought was better. And it was easiest of the Guns to click the Barrel into place. It also has the ridges in the front to attach a light or a laser. Has the double trigger and internal safety. It is only 10+1 here in NJ for the rounds. While we could not shoot it at their range as all public ranges are closed I felt I had enough information to go on. I decided to call two of my friends in LE who actually steered me towards the S&W they told me that the Walther is a nicer gun and is a step up from the S&W. I then compared some pricing to make sure their pricing was not that out of whack. May is my Birthday month on the 14th so when I got home the wife agreed since I already got it that it will be my own self bought Birthday present. I am very good with that. The pricing was a little more than the original firearm I was looking at, but screw it. Everyone between the Salesman and all my friends called it the "James Bond" Gun. I never knew that Walther was the brand he used. They also had 25% of any accessories because I got a gun there. I got the RFID gun safe, Cleaning Kit, Fast Loader, and Electronic Ear Protection. Oh yeah and Ammo. While I couldn't get it today because of the "Cool Down" period I can get it next week. I can't wait. Any thoughts on the Walther?

When I go back to get the gun I was going to get more Ammo as they only let you get two boxes of ammo per day. I got the standard 9MM ammo. One question do any of you guys think I should get or need the home defense ammo? That Ammo is what are Hollow Point Bullets. The salesman asked me like twice if I was interested in it. The guy told me it is legal to own, but is against the law to have when committing a crime. No problem there.

Thanks for everyone's help with their suggestions and input,
Mike
Click to expand...

you definitely want hollow point/ self defense ammo!!!!!! It is designed to mushroom out once it hits something to prevent over penetrating. You don’t want to shoot it through a wall and have it go through another wall and hit a neighbor!

FMJ (full metal jacket) should only be used at the range. Self defense ammo should be loaded all other times. Also you should shoot some of the self defense ammo at the range to make sure the pistol likes it. You can do some research online of the pistol to see if others have had issues with any particular brand of self defense ammo as well.

you should try to get 500 rounds through the pistol ASAP as that is the typical break in period for a pistol.

and not to be or sound mean, the fact that your LE friends and the sales person didn’t convey the self defense ammo info is sad and kind of irresponsible of them. I would HIGHLY recommend you take a self defense class to get a better basic understanding of your purchase and legal responsibilities if you were ever involved in a shooting.

There are lots of horror stories of people shooting people accidentally because of over penetration. You go to prison if that happens BTW.

A basic NRA class is a good start.
 
I never brought up self defense ammo with my LE friends we just discussed which guns I was going to get. I never knew hollow points were legal in NJ. I always assume everything is illegal in NJ. Because it usually is. That is something the salesman brought up when I checking out. The place I bought the gun has a range and a four hour tactical gun course which I planned on taking. However, because of the lockdown the range and courses cannot be offered at this time. I’m hoping by the end of May these things will open. I’ll probably get a yearly membership to the place.
 
Ok...a lot of great info in this thread but so many of you clearly have no idea how strict gun laws are in NJ!!!

Carry? Not even a consideration. I can carry in well over half the US but not my home state of NJ! My wife even tried to apply as an attorney ‘with cause’ because of people who may not think favorably about the results of her work and no dice. If you all think getting chips to Europe is hard...try getting a CCW in NJ!

Reasonably sized magazines? Fully-auto? Lol...not a shot.

OP - I know you have something lined up you already like, but my personal recommendation would be a revolver. The rounds limits on semi-autos continue to drop and are closing in on 6 anyway. The benefit of 6 in a revolver vs 6 or a few more in a semi-auto? The perception of NJ if and when you ever have to use if (God forbid). Others will feel differently I’m sure but case law in NJ is very very anti-gun-owner. Just some food for thought!
 
Nuhockey said:
. I never knew hollow points were legal in NJ. I always assume everything is illegal in NJ.
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Be VERY careful in your own interpretation of the statutes vs what a shop owner may tell you. I’m not your attorney nor did I stay at a Holiday Express last night...but storage at your home, transport, and hunting by a registered sportsman are not the same as self defense. At least not in the eyes of those you will have to convince.

https://www.njsp.org/firearms/transport-hollowpoint.shtml
 
DZPoker said:
Ok...a lot of great info in this thread but so many of you clearly have no idea how strict gun laws are in NJ!!!

Carry? Not even a consideration. I can carry in well over half the US but not my home state of NJ! My wife even tried to apply as an attorney ‘with cause’ because of people who may not think favorably about the results of her work and no dice. If you all think getting chips to Europe is hard...try getting a CCW in NJ!

Reasonably sized magazines? Fully-auto? Lol...not a shot.

OP - I know you have something lined up you already like, but my personal recommendation would be a revolver. The rounds limits on semi-autos continue to drop and are closing in on 6 anyway. The benefit of 6 in a revolver vs 6 or a few more in a semi-auto? The perception of NJ if and when you ever have to use if (God forbid). Others will feel differently I’m sure but case law in NJ is very very anti-gun-owner. Just some food for thought!
Click to expand...
Hi DZ,

I got a Walther PPQ M2 10 Round Capacity back in May. To get a CCW in NJ you fist have to get the Police Chief in your town to sign off on it and vouch for you. Then there are other steps which make it almost impossible to get a CCW if you are non Law Enforcement. My friends who are in Law Enforcement told me not to even bother with a CCW because I would never ever be able to get one. Yes they also warned me about the laws in NJ saying that God forbid I ever shot anyone breaking into my house the deck would be stacked against me. I was also warned I would also have to 100% expect a lawsuit from the intruders family whether or not it was justified. NJ is really a crappy state with regards to Gun ownership laws. Just think if I moved over the border to PA I could get more capacity and even get a silencer if I ever wanted to.

Thanks,
Mike
 
Nuhockey said:
Hi DZ,

I got a Walther PPQ M2 10 Round Capacity back in May. To get a CCW in NJ you fist have to get the Police Chief in your town to sign off on it and vouch for you. Then there are other steps which make it almost impossible to get a CCW if you are non Law Enforcement. My friends who are in Law Enforcement told me not to even bother with a CCW because I would never ever be able to get one. Yes they also warned me about the laws in NJ saying that God forbid I ever shot anyone breaking into my house the deck would be stacked against me. I was also warned I would also have to 100% expect a lawsuit from the intruders family whether or not it was justified. NJ is really a crappy state with regards to Gun ownership laws. Just think if I moved over the border to PA I could get more capacity and even get a silencer if I ever wanted to.

Thanks,
Mike
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Even worse...I moved from PA to here!
 
DZPoker said:
Be VERY careful in your own interpretation of the statutes vs what a shop owner may tell you. I’m not your attorney nor did I stay at a Holiday Express last night...but storage at your home, transport, and hunting by a registered sportsman are not the same as self defense. At least not in the eyes of those you will have to convince.

https://www.njsp.org/firearms/transport-hollowpoint.shtml
Click to expand...

Thanks for this info. I always assumed hollow points were illegal until the guy at the gun store told me otherwise. My Law Enforcement friends also warned me about the laws on the hollow points and the transportation and keeping them at home.
 
My gun club has a significant competition community. One sponsored shooter is also a criminal defense attorney. He says he has shot matches in NY (though he gets a hotel on the PA border as he doesn’t want to stay overnight there with a gun) but advised never ever going into NJ with a firearm. He said the laws are so complex and convoluted it’s hard for him to understand exactly what is and isn’t allowed.

Laws against hollow points are obviously written by people who have zero understanding of the subject matter. Many police are required to carry them in the US because they prevent over penetration...beside being ballistically superior. The law was just arbitrary BS and I hope this kind of crap gets to SCOTUS

I live in SE PA. I honestly can not find a single reason to want to live in NJ.
 
Old State said:
My gun club has a significant competition community. One sponsored shooter is also a criminal defense attorney. He says he has shot matches in NY (though he gets a hotel on the PA border as he doesn’t want to stay overnight there with a gun) but advised never ever going into NJ with a firearm. He said the laws are so complex and convoluted it’s hard for him to understand exactly what is and isn’t allowed.

Laws against hollow points are obviously written by people who have zero understanding of the subject matter. Many police are required to carry them in the US because they prevent over penetration...beside being ballistically superior. The law was just arbitrary BS and I hope this kind of crap gets to SCOTUS

I live in SE PA. I honestly can not find a single reason to want to live in NJ.
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NYC is more strict than NJ on Gun Laws. Not sure about NY State itself. Yes you shouldn't ever go into NJ with a firearm from another state unless you have the permit to carry it across state lines, but I'm not sure what that entails. The only reasons to live in NJ are because of work and the convenience of having many options near by like the multiple Targets, Walmarts, Costcos, Malls etc.... The property taxesin NJ make it not feasible as a place to live. Like for example my cousin lives in MD near Baltimore and he pays $4800 in property tax where the same house in NJ the Property tax would be close to $20,000.
 
Understand the work and absurd taxes. We have shopping in spades in the Philly suburbs though ;)

I always encourage people to come here but I don’t want PA to turn into CO were people leave states like CA to escape taxes and stupid laws and vote for the same crap in their new state. NY and NJ have been hemorrhaging people.

As to guns, NJ is probably the only state where a revolver makes any sense.
 

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