Help in improving my game... (1 Viewer)

jlb2782

High Hand
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Hey guys. I play in small cash games locally, usually once a week for the past year or so. Every now and then, I attend some small local tournaments but nothing major. $50 buy ins. And have not yet been to the casinos to play. Reason being, I need to understand the game more. A couple of guys I play with really understand the game and have a very good analysis of the hand, with their outs and percentages, or they understand their pot odds. I am not that quick to see or understand that stuff yet. Besides practice which is understandable, what can I do to understand better?? Do most of the people you play with analyze this every hand??

Took me about 30 min to write this because I couldn't figure out how to say it. Hahahaha.
 
Hey guys. I play in small cash games locally, usually once a week for the past year or so. Every now and then, I attend some small local tournaments but nothing major. $50 buy ins. And have not yet been to the casinos to play. Reason being, I need to understand the game more. A couple of guys I play with really understand the game and have a very good analysis of the hand, with their outs and percentages, or they understand their pot odds. I am not that quick to see or understand that stuff yet. Besides practice which is understandable, what can I do to understand better?? Do most of the people you play with analyze this every hand??

Took me about 30 min to write this because I couldn't figure out how to say it. Hahahaha.
Quick way to get started, head over to the strategy forum, read through the hand descriptions and think about how you would have played it. Some really good discussions over there.

https://www.pokerchipforum.com/forums/poker-strategy.43/
 
Any "friends" within this poker group? Use them to discuss hand strategies of hands and situations that come up. Pick up a few poker books. Anytime @DrStrange responds to a hand strategy thread make sure you soak up anything that he has to say.

Yea. Decent group of guys. The guys that really understand the odds have no problem explaining the hand if I ask. But I don't ask much because it tends to slow things down. I am not super great at math I guess, and trying to understand it on the fly makes it more difficult.
 
The guys that really understand the odds have no problem explaining the hand if I ask. But I don't ask much because it tends to slow things down. I am not super great at math I guess, and trying to understand it on the fly makes it more difficult.
Learn the shortcut of the "Rule of 4 and 2" when it comes to computing outs/odds. That's the 'math on the fly' that most people use.

For a starter book on poker math, odds, strategy, etc, I'd recommend Phil Gordon's "Little Green Book." I think this is solely for No Limit Holdem, though. Although some of the math and strategy will also apply to other games with a flop, turn, & river like Omaha.
 
Yeah, just absorb it bit by bit. Don't be afraid to ask questions, even if you feel like they might be stupid questions. We all started somewhere.

As to calculating odds, if your game is Hold'em, you can gain a lot just by memorizing a handful of key ratios. For example, some preflop hands are 50/50 against each other, some are 60/40, some are 55/45, some are 75/25, some are 80/20, and a small number are 85/15 or better. Similarly, after the flop, you can find pre-calculated odds for many common draws and situations (e.g., flush draws improve on the next card about 1/4 of the time, and the figure is close for open-ended straight draws as well, while gutshots only improve about 1/10 of the time).

What do you do with these figures? Compare them to the pot, the bet you're facing, and what you expect to win if you hit. For example, if you'll make your flush 1/4 of the time, that means you win 1 time and lose 3 times, so when you hit, you need to make back at least 3 times as much as you're investing for it to be a good investment.

There are millions upon millions of different situations in Hold'em, but almost all of them fit into a handful of categories that you can memorize. (IMO, this is one of the reasons NLHE is not going to hold its place as the dominant poker variant forever. People have studied the game to death already. But that's a whole other topic.)
 
Yea. Decent group of guys. The guys that really understand the odds have no problem explaining the hand if I ask. But I don't ask much because it tends to slow things down. I am not super great at math I guess, and trying to understand it on the fly makes it more difficult.

I don't mean discuss the hand in the moment. Take note of them and discuss it with them vial texting or emailing? I routinely hit up @ChaosRock to inquire about his opinion on a hand we were involved in.
 
Write down the details and start a thread here! There are several people in this forum who will happily explain their reasoning in detail. You can learn a lot.

Absolutely. What's cool is you will get a handful of different ways to handle a situation and they might all be correct.
 
I don't mean discuss the hand in the moment. Take note of them and discuss it with them vial texting or emailing? I routinely hit up @ChaosRock to inquire about his opinion on a hand we were involved in.

If you can't remember a hand well enough to discuss it later with one of your friends, take a photo of the board at showdown. Reconstructing a hand is another useful skill to develop.
 
If you can't remember a hand well enough to discuss it later with one of your friends, take a photo of the board at showdown. Reconstructing a hand is another useful skill to develop.

I'm horrible at that. I usually depend on Paulo to reconstruct the hand. Excess bourbon doesn't usually help :)
 
I 'm not a mathematical brain either, but you don't need absolute precision; only rough yet speedy calculations.
Do memorize, as @Jimulacrum said, some standard key ratios and number of outs when drawing.
Ask each dealing friend to enforce the no-splashed-pot rule and keep the pot neat and countable:)

You should be of course aware of all the factors of the equation, even if you can't know precisely on the spot the exact value of each factor. If poker were purely about math, super computers would be beating humans, but they 're not, yet.
I doubt that anyone but the very best in the world can precisely quantify "fold equity" (how much terror and pain your bet induces to opponents, to make them fold; this is added to your own hand's equity). Which opponents? would be the question there. It's a people's game.

For an introduction and definitions, look here:
http://www.thepokerbank.com

For serious reading (NOT bedtime reading) I, as a learner too, recommend Harrington on Cash, Vol I & II
But you 've got to be playing in parallel; otherwise you won't be able to absorb and assimilate much.
 
Thanks ya'll. This is great. I was going to quote you all and reply individually, but that seemed tedious, haha. The 4/2 rule is very cool and I need to probably get a hold of that book. Right now, all I play is NLHE, so looks like that will be fine. As far as remembering the hands, I am terrible at that. I really need to work on making mental notes of what I had, or what others had. But a pic of the board every now and then isn't a bad thing.

All great responses. I really do appreciate it.
 
I used to read a ton of books back in the day but now you can just subscribe to dozens of YouTube channels discussing strategy. I really like Negreanu’s channel but there are others.

As far as casinos, I would suggest you try if you are ok with the stakes. The quality of players won’t be much better than the typical home game at the lowest tables. Just look for a table full of retired guys and avoid hands with the guy in comfy clothes who has $1600 in front of him at a $1/2 table and only plays a couple hands an hour;)

Besides the obvious practice, you will also learn proper poker etiquette and rules. Not necessarily from the players but from the dealers. Home games can often have some very bizarre and illogical rules and practices especially when run by people who never play casino poker. If anything it will help you host a better run game.
 
I used to read a ton of books back in the day but now you can just subscribe to dozens of YouTube channels discussing strategy. I really like Negreanu’s channel but there are others.

I'm still a big fan of reading poker strategy books. ;)
 
All good advice already stated. Read all you can, books, articles, strategy posts, everything. But most important is play!!! There is no replacement for practice. My brother loves poker, I talk to him about it all the time, but he only players once a year or so. For as much as we talk about it he should be much better at it, but unless you put in the time playing all the theory in the world isn’t that much value.

And if you can’t play on a very regular basis, deal out hands by yourself. Deal 8 hands and go around looking at each one and think how you would play each one in that position. Then deal a flop and think about how each hand would play, repeat for the turn and river. After a while you will start to realize why some hands are better and which hands you should be folding.
 
And if you can’t play on a very regular basis, deal out hands by yourself. Deal 8 hands and go around looking at each one and think how you would play each one in that position. Then deal a flop and think about how each hand would play, repeat for the turn and river. After a while you will start to realize why some hands are better and which hands you should be folding.

I do this myself. I’m new to this forum, and between all the chip samples and new deck/card setups I’ve received over the past 3 weeks, it gives me a reason to sit at the table and deal out several hands to get a feel for the cards I’m dealing and chips I’m handling. I deal to 6-10 players and decide how I would play each one, all the while shuffling and tossing around my latest sample set!
 
Thanks ya'll. This is great. I was going to quote you all and reply individually, but that seemed tedious, haha. The 4/2 rule is very cool and I need to probably get a hold of that book. Right now, all I play is NLHE, so looks like that will be fine. As far as remembering the hands, I am terrible at that. I really need to work on making mental notes of what I had, or what others had. But a pic of the board every now and then isn't a bad thing.

All great responses. I really do appreciate it.

I would definitely check out Phil Gordon's Little Green Book! It's a great place to start and revisit every once in a while. If I still had my copy I would gladly send it to you, but, unfortunately, a friend of mine lost it. I absolutely love discussing hands and strategy, so if you want to shoot me a PM and discuss anything at all I'd be more than happy to put in my two cents! I'm also happy to share articles that I think may be useful in any way!
 
I do this myself. I’m new to this forum, and between all the chip samples and new deck/card setups I’ve received over the past 3 weeks, it gives me a reason to sit at the table and deal out several hands to get a feel for the cards I’m dealing and chips I’m handling. I deal to 6-10 players and decide how I would play each one, all the while shuffling and tossing around my latest sample set!

+1 on this. I don't find it especially useful for Hold'em myself, but mostly because I study that game in a different way. Dealing out sample hands has been massively helpful, however, for more complex games, SOHE in particular.

Back to Hold'em, one of the things that can make it hard to learn at the poker table is that you only get to see your own hand, and occasionally another hand or two. So many pots get awarded where you don't know what the winning hand was, or any of the losing hands for that matter. And watching televised poker doesn't help because, though you see all the cards, you're only seeing a curated sample of interesting hands.

Dealing out sample hands lets you see the raw cards that get dealt out, anyway, and you can adjust to see samples from 9-handed, 6-handed, heads-up, or whatever you want. It can be really eye-opening.
 
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Poker has so many topics and concepts to master. Years, truly years of stuff. The main key I think is to continue exploring and examining the game. Don’t get complacent.

As to the analysis: You’re going to want to avoid the pitfalls of results based analysis. Do you have 1000 hand sample of that bluff situation that got picked off? Then don’t assume it was a bad bluff. Results based analysis can cause one to regress.

As to topics: they come up through PCF strategy, Reddit, some poker content has strategy discussion, YouTube, etc. wealth of “things to think about”... for hold em and PLO. Not so much for the circus games, at least that I’ve found.
 
Great stuff everyone. Really appreciate it. Already starting to understand more. Thanks!!
 

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