Help! - I finally found some Black Starbursts but... (1 Viewer)

[DZPoker]

So I had some time to play today.

Just to put all three pics together...here’s where I started:

Oiling definitely helped. Still very visible when you catch the light on it, but not really visible otherwise (“worst” pic I could capture):

I then went a bit bolder (well...probably a lot bolder). I grabbed a drywall sanding sponge and lightly went around the space outside of the innermost groove in small circles. It actually blurred things pretty well. If you catch the light on it, the background of the hot stamp and inside some of the hats is a bit darker but not enough that I think many would notice without me pointing it out. You can still see a bit of the square shape but again, only when you catch the light just right and hardly something that jumps out at you even then. Without catching the light on it, you can’t see it at all. The end result is pretty promising though (again, “worst” pic I could capture):

I’m going to keep playing with it but if this is the best I can do, I’d honestly be pleased!

 

[wolfpack]

last pic looks fine to me, plenty usable

 

[inca911]

I’m going to keep playing with it but if this is the best I can do, I’d honestly be pleased!

 

[allforcharity]

Hey, that's pretty good! Perhaps you are lucky in that there's only surface reaction. Try the sanding first on another chip and then the oiling and see if it makes any difference.

 

[DZPoker]

Hey, that's pretty good! Perhaps you are lucky in that there's only surface reaction. Try the sanding first on another chip and then the oiling and see if it makes any difference.

I actually tried both ways and if I end with oil, it’s more apparent. When I say ‘sanding’ I really am using almost no pressure at all. It just seems to be enough to blur/blend the two tones enough to hide the difference.

I’m going to play around with trying to actually sand it down a milli-hair to see if it is just the surface though. I don’t mind killing a few to find out what works best. But if I can make them all look like this one, I’m stoked!

 

[DZPoker]

All - thanks for your various suggestions!

 

[Colquhoun]

Ok, this is strange. Just picked up some LCV solids and they have the same square mark on them as @DZPoker .

Every chip, but only on one side.
I did notice that the amount of chip outside of that square is the EXACT amount of chip that is exposed when sitting in the bottom part of a Warneke-style chip box. I thought the chips might be wearing inside the box from movement, but it wouldn’t explain the 90 degree angles of each corner of the “square” and why it’s only on one side.
I wonder if it was caused by chip cleaning machine?
So strange.

 

[DZPoker]

Ok, this is strange. Just picked up some LCV solids and they have the same square mark on them as @DZPoker .
View attachment 671470
Every chip, but only on one side.
I did notice that the amount of chip outside of that square is the EXACT amount of chip that is exposed when sitting in the bottom part of a Warneke-style chip box. I thought the chips might be wearing inside the box from movement, but it wouldn’t explain the 90 degree angles of each corner of the “square” and why it’s only on one side.
I wonder if it was caused by chip cleaning machine?
So strange.

Holly $&@)!! Look exactly the same!!

 

[Silver_Fiend]

Could the square part be damage from hot stamping?

 

[Colquhoun]

Could the square part be damage from hot stamping?

I’m not familiar enough with the whole process...but wouldn’t it have the mark on both sides?

 

[Silver_Fiend]

I’m not familiar enough with the whole process...but wouldn’t it have the mark on both sides?

Not an expert, but from what I've seen, the hot stampers are relatively small machines, and use the image relief on a square block mounted to the press, and often done a single side at a time. So it could be that wrong settings, adjustments, or manufacturing allowed the stamp block to as a whole to affect the chip and not just the design being stamped.

Again, just guessing.

 

[allforcharity]

Maybe some sort of manufacturing process product (lubricant) was transferred onto the face of the chip during stamping, and over time protected that area from some surface reaction that caused the slight bleaching effect.

 

[CdnBeerLover]

Could it be from the flat part of the stamp die touching the chip while stamping? If so, then using a slightly lighter pressure on the other side wouldn't have it. Either that, or perhaps the chip became slightly warped, so it didn't touch on one side, but did when it was flipped to stamp the other side.

 

[Colquhoun]

This theory of the hot stamper sounds definitely plausible, because the square looks as if it has flattened and smoothed the surface, almost like it was melted smooth. Interestingly, it affects not just the surface, but also deep in the hats as well.

 

[ekricket]

While these obviously are not mint before cleaning and polishing, can you call them mint unused afterwards, since they look a lot nicer? Asking for a friend of mine who is trying to sell some $100’s he bought as used but thinks if he gets at least one other person to agree with him then he can call them mint.

 

[ekricket]

This theory of the hot stamper sounds definitely plausible, because the square looks as if it has flattened and smoothed the surface, almost like it was melted smooth. Interestingly, it affects not just the surface, but also deep in the hats as well.

That speaks to something on the face of a mold. Probably a clever operator noticed if he put a piece of heat tape over the mold it stayed cleaner through more pressings. Made his job easier.

 

[allforcharity]

Interestingly, it affects not just the surface, but also deep in the hats as well.

...hence my chemical hypothesis. I note that it's not always uniform over the recesses of the hats as well. If it was a lubricant transfer we're probably talking about a powder lubricant rather than the more popular notion of an oil- or water-based lubricant.

 

[monkeydog]

Not likely caused by the hot stamping die because the image would be in the center of the square, not offset.

It looks like residue from some kind of label. Maybe a sticker that was used to keep track of inventory and stayed on the chip for years? That would explain the only one side...

 

[mtl mile end]

Not likely caused by the hot stamping die because the image would be in the center of the square, not offset.

It looks like residue from some kind of label. Maybe a sticker that was used to keep track of inventory and stayed on the chip for years? That would explain the only one side...

To me, it's clearly the adhesive residue from a piece of tape or the like.

 

[Colquhoun]

To me, it's clearly the adhesive residue from a piece of tape or the like.

I have 85 of these with this mark, only on one side. I find a chip cleaner, hot stamper or some type of machine producing this more plausible than someone with a lot of post-it notes.

 

[Colquhoun]

Took some more photos and a microscope shot.
Here you can see the line go through the hat:

And the area in the hat under 60x microscope...the smooth area is REALLY smooth and the dull portion above is quite chewed up:

It’s hard to determine if the smooth square is the original chip or the outside area.

 

[Colquhoun]

And this is the inside of the hat on the OTHER side of the same chip. Looks like neither sections of the hat on the damaged side.

And looking at the hat and cane with the arrow below, the detail is all softened, like it was melted. Not nearly as sharp as the others.

I’m done investigating, this one is a mystery.

 

[DZPoker]

@Colquhoun - awesome analysis! In the interest of science...I want this solved. Not just for me (I thought my rack was unique when I posted) but for all!!!!

 

[Colquhoun]

@Colquhoun - awesome analysis! In the interest of science...I want this solved. Not just for me (I thought my rack was unique when I posted) but for all!!!!

I agree... if it was just a one rack like this, you could chalk it up to just a one-of-a-kind thing. But two different colors/styles of chips with this affliction makes me want to solve it.

 

[Silver_Fiend]

Considering the change to the chip in the affected areas, I would guess some chemical interaction. I cant see heat affecting inside the stamps as the surface. I'm all out of ideas. This ones a head scratcher.

 

[Kakeesh]

I'm still impressed @DZPoker restored that chip as well as he did. Hope the rest of them turned out just as good.

 

[DZPoker]

I'm still impressed @DZPoker restored that chip as well as he did. Hope the rest of them turned out just as good.

They did! If I were to pick my 20 worst black chips right now (out of 300)...none would be from this batch.

 

[Statesvegas]

I have a theory! Give me a few to investigate....

 

[Statesvegas]

In reading another thread, @Colquhoun posted the following in response to a member's request for assistance with chip storage:

"I’ve never been a big fan of long-term storage where black foam is in contact with the chips.
Some foams may be fine, but depending on the chemicals used and the manufacturer, some foams can break down or cause damage to things they contact."

That got me thinking about this thread, and I also remembered an old chip case that belonged to my son that at the end of each row had some square, black foam spacers to keep the rows of chips snug.

Since the affected chips in this post are relatively few and with only one side affected, could this be a plausible explanation? That the chips had been stored in some type of case that utilized spacers such as these.

 

[Colquhoun]

In reading another thread, @Colquhoun posted the following in response to a member's request for assistance with chip storage:

"I’ve never been a big fan of long-term storage where black foam is in contact with the chips.
Some foams may be fine, but depending on the chemicals used and the manufacturer, some foams can break down or cause damage to things they contact."

That got me thinking about this thread, and I also remembered an old chip case that belonged to my son that at the end of each row had some square, black foam spacers to keep the rows of chips snug.

View attachment 672760


Since the affected chips in this post are relatively few and with only one side affected, could this be a plausible explanation? That the chips had been stored in some type of case that utilized spacers such as these.

I like the theory! The squares look definitely the right size.
However, every one of the chips has this, but only on one side. Can’t imagine each chip came in contact with the square, and never both sides of the same chip.