Hello PCF and need a little help here (1 Viewer)

[NYC]

Hello to all of you here at PokerChipForum, the amount of information I have learned, as a very novice poker player, has been invaluable. All of you should be proud of what you have developed.

I've been lurking/learning here for some time now and want to get your opinion(s) on what I'm going to buy for my son. My son has always liked playing poker so after his first very successful semester of college I'm going to buy him a nice set of chips and we are going to learn together before he finishes college and takes off.

Here is what I am thinking and some questions at the end. For now we will have 4-6 players but might increase to more when we start playing so I want to have a little room for growth.

600 chip cash set of Pharaoh Apache Poker Chips chips with the following breakdown:

200 - 5 cent
200 - 25 cent
150 - $1
50 - 5$
Dealer Button

With something on the line I think the low demonization set will help with learning and concentration, I can always buy higher demonizations when/if needed.

I have an unused dinning table that is 46"x 86" so I am going to turn it into a poker table.
I am going to buy Suided Speed Cloth from YAT to cover it. We will see how it goes but I think I can later turn it into a proper poker table with rails and cup holders.

I would like to say I didn't buy any samples sets against all of your advise because I really don't think it applies in my case. I watched almost all of the @Hobbyphilic YouTube videos and think his opinions are enough for me to make a decision. Thank you to him for all the time and effort it takes to produce them.

I only have a few questions but very much value your opinions also.

Questions:
First, to confirm, is YAT "Your Auto Trim?" If not, where should I buy the suited speed cloth from?
Second, since my dining table is solid wood, should I also get the 3/16" foam padding? Maybe 1/4"?
Third, I haven't researched playing cards but are Bee cards the best?
Finally, what is the best online site to subscribe for practice?

Thank all of you again for this resource, especially the person(s) who started this site.

Gene

 

[Mental Nomad]

200 - 5 cent
200 - 25 cent
150 - $1
50 - 5$

People often forget to say what they're playing. I'll assume No-limit holdem.

If you're playing 5c/10c NLH, I'd suggest cutting the nickels to 100 and bumping the $1 to 200.

Most people won't call a 60c bet with 12 nickels, they'll use 2 quarters and two nickels. Post-flop, you'll hardly need nickels at all. (For most flops, you'll need at least quarters to make anything resembling a proper NL bet. If the pots are often small enough that you can bet half pot with a few nickels, then your crew aren't learning how to play poker.)

 

[ReallyGoodUsername]

First, to confirm, is YAT "Your Auto Trim?" If not, where should I buy the suited speed cloth from?
Yes it stands for Your Auto Trim. I just bought felt from there last month and love it however for your described needs above, the SSC (suited speed cloth) on Amazon is cheaper and will do the trick just as well.

$30 for more than enough SSC than you'll need:
https://www.amazon.com/YH-Poker-108...=8-18-spons&keywords=suited+speed+cloth&psc=1

Second, since my dining table is solid wood, should I also get the 3/16" foam padding? Maybe 1/4"?
Yes. Playing on a hard surface like wood or marble can (though infrequently) lead to the chips chipping while players toss bets into pots or accidentally drop them. You'll also want foam padding for the players since you won't have padded rails and their arms will be resting on the table. Someone else here may know better whether 3/16" or ¼" is preferable but for your use either will work.

Third, I haven't researched playing cards but are Bee cards the best?
No, at least not for most people on this site. Most people prefer plastic playing cards as opposed to paper which is what the Bee cards you pick up at CVS are made of (though they probably have a plastic line as well). If you search "playing cards" on the site you'll come up with a number of different threads like the one below. Copag, Fournier, Guild, KEM, and Desjgn are all ones you'll see a lot. Any of them are great cards but they each have their own feel and different attributes.

https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/what-playing-cards-should-i-buy-and-why.29828/

Finally, what is the best online site to subscribe for practice?
I'll leave this up to more practiced players.

One final thing I wanted to ask you. Do you know what your son plays regularly for stakes (how much do they buy in for and how much are the blinds they play for)? 200x $0.05 chips is a lot and unless they're blinds are $0.05/$0.05, $0.05/$0.10, or $0.10/$0.10... if they play $0.25/$0.25 blinds or above they won't get used at all and are taking up a third of your chip count which could be used somewhere else. (see @Mental Nomad's response as well for this concern)

Good luck on your project! My dad and I just re-did a Barrington poker table by replacing the felt and cupholders as well as adding handles and a new bracket where the table folds. Took us a lot longer than we'd thought but it was a great bonding experience and one of the best gifts I've ever gotten and will always cherish.

 

[Highli99]

In lieu of speed cloth, You might just consider a neoprene table topper (like a giant mouse pad). Amazon has a bunch of them around $50. I have one from BBO which is nice.

Welcome!

 

[Beakertwang]

Assuming the game 5¢/10¢ NLHE, quarters and dollars will be your workhorse chips. Definitely reduce your nickels to 100, and up your ones. If there's a chance they'll play larger stakes, like 25¢/25¢ or 25¢/50¢, I'd get 100 nickels, 100 quarters, 200 dollars, and 200 fives. That would give a bank of over $1200.

Of course, with Pharaoh's it's easy and relatively inexpensive to expand the set at a later date.

 

[Beakertwang]

And a +1 to the roll up topper that @Highli99 mentioned. I also have the BBO version, and it works great.

 

[yone]

Welcome! I’m from the Riverdale section of the Bronx. I like to play with Kem bridge size cards both regular and jumbo. I can get you a new set (2 decks) for $20 or used but in great condition for cheap.

 

[Mental Nomad]

Agreed on all point above.

A foam topper is a great, cheap, easy start. Speed cloth is better, but only with padding. I'm unconcerned about chips breaking, but with no padding, it's hard to pick up cards.

Plastic cards last much longer and don't get marked up in one night. All you need is one "heavy" handed player and the cards aren't usable after one night because everyone knows which three have a permanent bend. Bicycle sells some relatively cheap starter plastic decks.

On the table - IMHO, cup holders aren't critical, but a rail is. You may agree after picking up cards and chips from the floor a few times.

As former dealer, I have an aggressive pitch, but a lot of people can have a card catch an air cushion and see it float across the table. When that happens without a rail, it hits the floor.

 

[Forty4]

Finally, what is the best online site to subscribe for practice? PCF poker stars home games. But PokerStars is probably best online, but no play money sites are great for a real feel of the game.

 

[Beakertwang]

https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/pcf-p-home-games-club-info.7769/

These games are a lot of fun, the guys are great, and it's a good way to get used to tournament play without risking a bunch of money. It's a bit different than a regular cash game, but the basics remain the same.

 

[justsomedude]

Assuming the game 5¢/10¢ NLHE, quarters and dollars will be your workhorse chips.

I think it depends on how the group plays. Mainly because .05/.10 can play very differently from .25/.50 and 1/2. This is because players have so many intermediate bet options... such as .10, .15, and .20, before they hit the next denom of .25.

I've found that more nickels in .05/.10 isn't necessarily a bad thing, again, it just depends on the playing style of the group. If it's a tighter/nittier crew that's regularly raising to .15 or .20, then 150 nickels isn't outrageous, and can minimize change-making.

 

[BGinGA]

Agree with getting fewer nickels (100-150) and more dollars (150-200); our single-table micro-stakes group works well with a 150x5c, 200x25c, 200x$1, 50x$5 breakdown or close equivalent. 600 chips is sort of a standard minimum number for single-table cash sets.

Also agree with others about picking up an inexpensive roll-out neoprene table topper for starters. Cheaper than even unpadded ssc, and will always come on handy for impromptu games. Good cheap long-term investment.

Strongly encourage you to pick up a decent deck of plastic playing cards (vs inexpensive paper or plastic-coated cards from the drugstore). The difference is substantial, and the long-term cost is actually much lower since plastics will generally last a much longer time.

Lastly...... not getting chip samples is a huge mistake, unless you happen to have hundreds of spare dollars to toss towards buying chips that you and/or your son may actually despise once in hand. This cannot be emphasized enough -- samples are cheap insurance against making an unwise and potentially expensive purchase decision mistake.

Nothing against Jon Hobby, but what he thinks about any specific chips really has absolutely ~nothing~ to do with what you will like -- or dislike -- about those chips. Some people love real casino compressed-clay chips, others love ceramics, while others find comfort in china clays, plastic chips, or labeled-ceramic hybrids. And there are also people who can't stand each of the above, as well.

The bottom line is that there is no way to tell what ~you~ will like based on pictures or even a video, which omits key points such as realtime feel, sound, and the overall tactile experience of actually handling a specific chip mold/type/size.

Get samples and decide for yourself, or be prepared for major disappointment and potentially wasted chip fund purchases.

 

[yone]

I don’t have a wide range of samples, but I wouldn’t mind lending them to you. If you’re in nyc we can meet up. This is what I have:
Dia de los muertos - abc ceramics (middle)
Dia de los muertos - chipco ceramics (middle)
Cpc - compression mold (expensive)
Paulson - compression mold (expensive)
Matsui - injection mold plastic (expensive)
Dice chips - composit plastic? (Cheap)
Other random chips that won’t help with building a set.

Middle is from $.50 - $1
Expensive is > $1

 

[Trihonda]

Roll up neoprene topper is the way to go... the idea of getting 1/4” foam then covering with speed Cloth when you play won’t work (unless you’re glueing and stapling everything down permanently). And then it will cost you 2x as much as a neoprene topper.

Ya, I don’t have an issue with folks playing nickels in their games, but I’ve tried super Low stakes and it never feels like real Hold’em to me. People value $.05 (or $.10) so little that rarely do we get anyone playing close to “appropriate “ when it comes to folding properly or playing a solid range of hands. Its. No foldem Hold’em.

My recommendation is to make the jump into quarters.. it’s still low enough to be forgiving and friendly, but big enough to teach a more appropriate range of playable hands. Just my thoughts.

 

[yone]

I agree with the no foldem for low stakes. Even at the .25-.50 range preflop raises are more exaggerated than higher stake games. Everybody will call $1.50 preflop raise just to see the flop. It seems like the $3 range is when some players will think about folding - which is 6x big blind - and don’t count on it being heads up

 

[allforcharity]

Hello and welcome!

I heartily concur with the above endorsements for:
- neoprene topper that can be used on top of your dining table and folded up and put away when not in use
- a couple decks of nice plastic playing cards; you might find Bicycle Prestige to be one of the cheapest options, but Copags area also not very expensive
- getting samples before you buy so you can see, hear, and handle them

It's funny how autocorrect can turn "denominations" into "demonizations". I don't think we need any of the latter! Good luck in your search, and happy gaming!

 

[Darson]

Get samples!! You really need to get "china clays" in hand and compare them to Paulsons, plastics and ceramics before deciding what you like. Before I got them in hand, I was all set on getting a china clay set.

Also, don't let the lack of 5c chips force you into buying a specific set. You can always get $5, $25, $100 and use them as 5c, 25c, $1 and there will be a far greater selection.

 

[BeesKnees]

I would like to say I didn't buy any samples sets against all of your advise because I really don't think it applies in my case. I watched almost all of the @Hobbyphilic YouTube videos and think his opinions are enough for me to make a decision. Thank you to him for all the time and effort it takes to produce them.

I honestly can't stress enough how important it is to get samples. When it comes to matters of feel and sound it is VERY subjective. Quite frequently even the finish on the chips or the colours aren't how they look on a photo. Samples sets are cheap, 600 chip sets (with possible add-ons) are not.

 

[1A25R]

Hi

Pharaoh Apache Poker Chips are very nice, once you get them, plan to use some mineral oil on them to made the colors pops !
(Ex; baby oil also contains mineral oil, if unsure just ask. Never use vegetable oil because it will spoil)

Play with low denomination is OK if you plan to play cash games. Just take you time and think if that's the way that you would like to go. As for a start I will recommend a small tournament set. As you plan to go for 600 chips you can have a big tournament set that you will always use.
In addition, if your idea is to learn to play, most of the beginner training and lessons are tournament oriented. Tournament and cash games are not played in the same way (tactics are different)

If you go for a cash set, same recommendation that above; less fracs and more dollars.
Neoprene poker top are excellent, cards flow well, easy to pick chips from the table and super easy to carry and store. In addition you have a large choice from printed designs if you don't want to stick to a single plain color.

Cards; go for plastic cards, they last forever. (I use Kems, Mondano and Copag)

I don't know if for poker practice you mean this kind of web site :> http://www.pokertrainer.se/index.html or sites where you can play for play money against other players. For the second I know that PokerStars offer that option.

Have fun !

 

[NYC]

Thanks to all of you for your comments and suggestions.

I have ordered the Super Poker Chip Sample Set from Apache Poker Chips as well as a sample of the Tiki Kings. I think that should give us all types to chose from.

Somehow I missed the neoprene table topper in my research and that will be perfect for my situation. Definitely going with this.

I'll probably get a couple different decks from the companies suggested to see what "feels" good to us.

Some of you have asked what game we will play. No-limit holdem, .05/.10. My initial decision to go with a micro stakes cash set was to avoid what some here are calling No Foldem holdem but it seems the small amounts doesn't prevent this or may actually encourage it. I am going to have to think about starting a set with $5 chips. That will give me the option of using them in a higher stakes game and also use them for micro as well as opening up the selections.

I'll check back after I get the samples and we make our decisions. I don't mind spending more than I thought I would but I really hate making a mistake doing it because I don't know enough so I thank all of you again for your help.

 

[NYC]

Agree with getting fewer nickels (100-150) and more dollars (150-200); our single-table micro-stakes group works well with a 150x5c, 200x25c, 200x$1, 50x$5 breakdown or close equivalent. 600 chips is sort of a standard minimum number for single-table cash sets.

Also agree with others about picking up an inexpensive roll-out neoprene table topper for starters. Cheaper than even unpadded ssc, and will always come on handy for impromptu games. Good cheap long-term investment.

Strongly encourage you to pick up a decent deck of plastic playing cards (vs inexpensive paper or plastic-coated cards from the drugstore). The difference is substantial, and the long-term cost is actually much lower since plastics will generally last a much longer time.

Lastly...... not getting chip samples is a huge mistake, unless you happen to have hundreds of spare dollars to toss towards buying chips that you and/or your son may actually despise once in hand. This cannot be emphasized enough -- samples are cheap insurance against making an unwise and potentially expensive purchase decision mistake.

Nothing against Jon Hobby, but what he thinks about any specific chips really has absolutely ~nothing~ to do with what you will like -- or dislike -- about those chips. Some people love real casino compressed-clay chips, others love ceramics, while others find comfort in china clays, plastic chips, or labeled-ceramic hybrids. And there are also people who can't stand each of the above, as well.

The bottom line is that there is no way to tell what ~you~ will like based on pictures or even a video, which omits key points such as realtime feel, sound, and the overall tactile experience of actually handling a specific chip mold/type/size.

Get samples and decide for yourself, or be prepared for major disappointment and potentially wasted chip fund purchases.

I just ordered samples from Apache and the Tiki Kings. I'm not even sure why I tried to go without since the number one piece of advise here is to get samples.

Thanks for your help

 

[BGinGA]

My initial decision to go with a micro stakes cash set was to avoid what some here are calling No Foldem holdem but it seems the small amounts doesn't prevent this or may actually encourage it. I am going to have to think about starting a set with $5 chips. That will give me the option of using them in a higher stakes game and also use them for micro as well as opening up the selections.

As a poker novice, your best approach for a) providing a learning atmosphere, b) avoiding huge financial risk, and c) avoiding excessive no-fold'em play may be to host low buy-in NLHE tournaments instead of a cash game. You can limit losses (by using a set entry fee), and although tournament chips have no cash value, players tend to treat them with more respect than a cash nickel chip will typically get. I find that tournament NLHE provides a better learning platform for new players than does most cut-throat cash play.

You can get a decent set that will transition from tournament to cash use at a later date, by getting a set with $5, $25, $100, and $500 denominations. With tournament blinds starting at 5/10 and T2000 starting stacks (200BB), a small set can provide plenty of tournament play with room for growth and alternate usage.

For low-stakes cash games, the chips can be used at 1% value ($5 chip = 5c, $25 = 25c, etc.), and if stakes later increase, you can add actual $1 and 25c chips to the set and use at face value.

 

[Teggy]

I just ordered samples from Apache and the Tiki Kings. I'm not even sure why I tried to go without since the number one piece of advise here is to get samples.

Thanks for your help

I agree with everyone’s above post. In regards to the best learning platforms/style to play to learn the game, it’s imo good to start out playing tournament style play but can easily switch to cash games after.

It comes down to a few things which I think the biggest has to do with the audience with whom your playing with. If players tend to have to leave an hour or two into a game, cash games might be the way to go. If it’s a dedicated night to poker I personally love tournament style play. You can always do rebuys as an option and bounties for added bonus/fun.

In regards to your chip selection. I might have missed it earlier but what is your budget? That can open and close some doors for options when looking for chips. The sample set you got has a lot of different options some good and some bad imo. It’s good because you will get to see the quality of nicer chips vs the cheaper chips.

I’m glad you also ordered a set of Tiki King ceramics. Never owned that set but can tell you that ceramics are a great alternative to clay chips. They are a lot more durable and very hard to break so college kids tossing them around would be no big deal, and they are great over alll. I myself have a large set of ceramic Nevada Jacks that I love. The sound and feel you get from them can’t compare to that of the china Clays and Clay chips. Again just my opinion.

On the other hand I love Paulsons and other high quality clay chips. They are softer to the touch but are amazing. I have come to realize that there is nothing quite like Paulson chips. However budget can dictate what you will be looking for so that’s why I was asking before.

ABC gifts I know has the Nevada Jacks at a very good price which is the same quality of the Tiki Kong’s you just ordered. My overall suggestion is to go with what you like, not always are the most expensive chips out there the best for every player. Feel the difference and make a decision on what best suits your liking.

Good luck on the search! I have no doubt you will find a great set.

Also, cards: I’d definitely go with 100% plastic playing cards either bridge or poker size depending on preference. Copag are great starting decks and cheaper on Amazon. Kems are fantastic, along with Desjgn, Modiano, Da Vinci, etc

Good Luck and let us know what set you went with!