Hello from Ambassador Games!

AmbassadorGames

Sitting Out
Site Vendor
Joined
Nov 15, 2020
Messages
36
Reaction score
94
Location
Hong Kong
So basically you are looking to do a brain dump from people here who are unlikely to be your customers?

Im relatively new around here but I find what you are asking offensive. It might not be my place to be defensive of PCF but how Im currently interpreting everything you have posted so far is that you are basically wanting to use the collective intelligence around here so you can improve your products to profit and offer the community nothing in return.

Im not sure how everyone else would feel about PCF being some sort of "focus group" but if you really want to improve your products maybe you can start by creating some new designs with the assistance of some of the amazing designers that offer their services here on a professional level (i.e. pay them).

Besides being chip collectors, a lot of us here are poker players as well, and we know an angle shooter when we see one.

I hope I'm wrong with my read and in that case I will be happy to have made an ass of myself but I doubt it. Only time will tell.

Welcome to PCF.
Hi (Davis?),

Thanks for your message, and I can understand your concerns. I expected coming in here this could be slightly skeptical territory - a bit like a top-40 pop band coming to a page of classical music aficionados and trying to find common ground for discussion about 'music'!

We definitely didn't come on here with a business plan on how to exploit this website. As i said in my initial post, we were just looking to see if anyone reviewed our new set, and we stumbled onto this. Google search led me to a thread about the product, and I wanted to answer some of the comments/questions there, but as it was in a classified section and we did not have correct permissions (needing 7 posts or something like that), we could not. I would say from a professional standpoint there was no real reason to get involved in that thread; for our company it doesn't really matter (by this I mean answering a few technical questions on this website is not going to impact how successful or not the product is at Costco over these next few weeks), but I thought it would be fun (personally). I am sure one of the reasons you are also all here as you get a kick out of the discussions. So I posted on a page for new members, at which time a site admin contacted me to explain about the 'site vendor' requirement since we're a company and not an individual. So we signed up to be a site vendor as basically 'why not'. That's the sum total of how we got to my posts above.

All along my motivation was simply to get involved in the discussion, share some knowledge (ie. answer those questions, as perhaps asian-based bulk manufacturers of mass-market products have not gotten involved here) and perhaps learn a few things along the way from a demographic of people (ie. the 'serious poker chip people') we honestly have never interacted with much. We typically meet with retail store buyers who really dont know or dont care much about the the fine details of the products; they're typically more concerned that we have the right basic spec (they only know 11.5g), catch the right price point with the right amount of margin, and have a compelling packaging design!

I didn't put any real deep thought about what we could do here beyond posting a few comments here and there. As this place is new to me and we just signed up I haven't even had a chance to read any of the message threads beyond this one and the one about the Costco set. You're definitely correct in that we may never produce a product that the people here would deem worthy of buying - at least as far as chips go. But perhaps we could - products improve after gaining new knowledge and insights!

Big picture we are a table games & board games company; we make chess sets, we make dominoes, we make arcade themed games, we make foosball & air hockey tables, we make kids action games, we make board games under Disney brands for 5 year old girls, and we've also made poker sets for over 15 years. Poker related products account for less than 5% of our turnover. No hidden agenda - so don't worry! I'm just into board games and table games, and always happy to join a knowledgeable community, because I'm living and breathing this stuff 10 hours a day 5 days a week for 15+ years and I find it personally very interesting to find ways to have deeper talks that go beyond the superficial ones we have most of the time with retail stores.

If you consider that to be unethical because it is exploitative without offering fair compensation for the things I could learn here which could help my company make better products, I can say that was definitely not our intent or consideration coming here, but that we're also open minded to anything if any paths lead us there. As a board games company we are constantly partnering with inventors, freelance designers, and the like, and we definitely pay them for their work! It surely wouldn't be outside the real of possibility we could team up with designers here - I'm sure there are some very experienced and talented ones. I don't want to get ahead of myself here, as I said I haven't had a chance to explore the site and/or understand how other 'site vendors' get involved in the community, but I just wanted to try and address this.

I was honestly shocked at the number of messages received (I'm on a different time zone here in Hong Kong so I saw all of these together) when i opened this up; I definitely now realize this is a very active and passionate group! It's probably unlikely we'll be as active on this site as most (considering why we initially joined up), but we do hope we can add something useful to the community.

Mark
 
Last edited:

AmbassadorGames

Sitting Out
Site Vendor
Joined
Nov 15, 2020
Messages
36
Reaction score
94
Location
Hong Kong
Currently no plans for that. But we're new here - things may change! For now we're mainly interested to learn more about likes and dislikes from the true poker chip experts, and get involved in those types of discussions.
I should clarify this point; when I say we don't sell retail I mean we currently don't sell directly to the end user. We sell our products through brick & mortart retail stores, so the only products of ours that become available are those we can convince a retailer to stock on their shelves. I would say the majority of our customers would never expand their poker offerings to include so many accessories and parts; for them a poker set is just one of the 100+ games they have in their board games section. I'm curious; are there popular online shops for poker products that most of you frequent? Perhaps that could be an opportunity for us to get some of our less 'mass-market' items out there - and at the same time we could see about doing deals within this community. Just an idea. Alot of our back-catalogue of products has been accumulating dust as the mass-market poker offerings became ever more narrowed and commoditized since the early-mid 2000 years.
 

AmbassadorGames

Sitting Out
Site Vendor
Joined
Nov 15, 2020
Messages
36
Reaction score
94
Location
Hong Kong
That tray would be of interest to someone like me, who primarily hosts multi-table tournaments. If you ever decide to sell the trays without the chips, you would have a market here. Perhaps not enough to be of interest, but that's the kind of decision you have to make.

I can say with certainty that you can't sell any if you don't offer them.
Thanks for your feedback. I've always liked those 300 and 500 trays myself, so wanted to find a way to make & sell more of them. What always held me back was finding a way to make them which would accomodate the variances in chip dimensions from different manufacturers. Are there any standards in these types of chip trays that satisfy most people? Like a chip measurement that could be used as the reference point to make sure we can fit 50 of them per row, that would then allow the majority of chips to fit inside? Logically you could just use the widest & thickest, but that could be annoying if it left an open space at the end of the row once 50 chips had been loaded, right? Interested to hear your thoughts.
 

Josh Kifer

Royal Flush
Site Vendor
Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2017
Messages
10,307
Reaction score
22,613
Location
PNW
Thanks for your feedback. I've always liked those 300 and 500 trays myself, so wanted to find a way to make & sell more of them. What always held me back was finding a way to make them which would accomodate the variances in chip dimensions from different manufacturers. Are there any standards in these types of chip trays that satisfy most people? Like a chip measurement that could be used as the reference point to make sure we can fit 50 of them per row, that would then allow the majority of chips to fit inside? Logically you could just use the widest & thickest, but that could be annoying if it left an open space at the end of the row once 50 chips had been loaded, right? Interested to hear your thoughts.
We have found that you have that same issue with racks, but a simple spacer that could be added (maybe a couple simple plastic discs) can let you add the proper amount of chips per row and make them for correctly.
 

AmbassadorGames

Sitting Out
Site Vendor
Joined
Nov 15, 2020
Messages
36
Reaction score
94
Location
Hong Kong
Easy hero - a google search probably brought him here as people are buying up his costco stuff and there is a forum posting on it. I mean sure he doesn't know that we are throwing his chips in the garbage and are only buying it for the case (definite place for improvement there, I mean come on we all know all about "official casino weight") but they just wanted to reach out and see what is going on with their product. I actually give them credit for asking instead of just taking people's money and not caring.

As far as getting designs, maybe they need us to offer up names for them to contact (wish I had a name to give you). Give people a chance before you blow a gasket buddy.
Indeed we care alot about what people think of our products - in the modern retail world with so much sold online you live and die by the 5 star rating button! So I'm pretty compulsive in collecting feedback so we can try to improve our products for future seasons. Even if the people here are not the majority of who will buy our products at somewhere like Costco, I still feel there is real value in hearing from all areas, including the toughest crowds - when you try to impress the best then you will amaze the casual. From the comments on the Costco thread I can see there is still a long way to go (at least for the chips and even the plastic cards) in raising eyebrows on this site, which is the learning oopportunity that helps us. Thanks for your message.
 

wolfpack

Straight
Joined
Aug 4, 2020
Messages
788
Reaction score
835
Location
Ohio
ill take the 20 cherry hills

dibs lot #11

Thanks for your feedback. I've always liked those 300 and 500 trays myself, so wanted to find a way to make & sell more of them. What always held me back was finding a way to make them which would accomodate the variances in chip dimensions from different manufacturers. Are there any standards in these types of chip trays that satisfy most people? Like a chip measurement that could be used as the reference point to make sure we can fit 50 of them per row, that would then allow the majority of chips to fit inside? Logically you could just use the widest & thickest, but that could be annoying if it left an open space at the end of the row once 50 chips had been loaded, right? Interested to hear your thoughts.


The major online poker stores for mas produced products and better service and quality are apache poker chips and spinnetas gaming
 

AmbassadorGames

Sitting Out
Site Vendor
Joined
Nov 15, 2020
Messages
36
Reaction score
94
Location
Hong Kong
Why for gods sake do you continue to offer this kind of crap? Especially when much much better is available. Do you just want to sell more of the same crap, just dressed up a little prettier with free consulting from here, or do you really want to make a product we’d actually use here? Maybe you don’t sell it here for some internal reason, but at least we might consider it.

if your not designing it for us to buy then I’m not sure your going to get good feedback. Developing a product for a consumer with input from people who aren’t even going to use it just seems dumb.
I'd say as a business we make products for a vaiety of potential consumers; I guess you can say there is always a big market for 'crap'. Everyone needs to find xmas gifts they can buy for $20 or $30. But we do try to go beyond that; for example the product we got into Costco this year is considerably better than the sets found at Walmart or Target, and at a price that is accessible to alot of people. Still not a Ferarri I know, but not a Lada either. I'm genuinely interested to learn about what you all think constitutes a good chip (structurally and materially speaking). If we felt we could make it an accessible price, of course we'd be interested to do it. That's kind of what I'm looking forward to reading about as I explore this site.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nex

AmbassadorGames

Sitting Out
Site Vendor
Joined
Nov 15, 2020
Messages
36
Reaction score
94
Location
Hong Kong
I’ll take the counter argument, my friends. A lot of people buy (or are gifted) mass produced chips before becoming chippers. I think more people playing poker and chipping is a good thing. Therefore, better/more accessible ‘training wheels’ is good for our hobby.

@AmbassadorGames , I’d be curious if most of your customers are buying sets for themselves or as gifts. I imagine that data would be quite hard to extract from your retailers, but that might help you improve marketing design. I could see a bunch of moms scooping this up at Costco as a Christmas tree filler.

I’d suggest designing a chipset that is completely different than what is readily available, if possible. (I’m talking chips specifically) There are hundreds of sellers on Craigslist, Facebook marketplace, Letgo, etc selling generic dice chips for dirt cheap. You may easily get mom picking up sets at Costco because they are packaged well and hit the target market spot on, but when jimmy hosts a game with generic chips and billy decides by buy his own set after playing with jimmy’s, his default choice may not be to run to Costco to buy your set. Unlesssss, he really likes the same, cool design.

As for feedback on the design, edgespots on chips with a clean, unique inlay is widely popular. Stay away from white edgespots - your market segment is overrun with this already. I’d also say denominated chips might help newer players run better games. I imagine many people that have mass produced sets have used them only 0 to a few times. Making it easier to host / run a game might give your product more organic growth. If you do decide to denominate you’re chips, please please please spend time researching appropriate breakdowns. Cheap sets have a bad name in part because they traditionally are not set up with running a good game in mind. Search the forum - there is a wealth of knowledge to be found!

Thank you for supporting our site and making poker (chipping) more accessible.

p.s. I mean no shade to my chipping buddies with different opinions. I love you guys. :)
Hi Ethan - thanks for your message. you're correct in that we don't have much visibility into who ultimately buys our products, and why. Could be someone new to poker who is getting their first set as you said. Walmart and Target sell hundreds of thousands of the 300 11.5g dice poker chip sets each year. With the Costco set we tried to do something with a few upgrades relative to that mass-market benchmark, without making the price inaccessible to the casual player. Indeed we tried to bring more color variance to the chips, and we also experimented with the material composition of the chips to get a duller and softer texture/feel/sound. I hear what you're saying about the chip denomination breakdown to make the quantity of chips make sense as you play a normal game or tournament and get each person started with a logical stack and have the right amounts of other denominations to chip up as players get eliminated; we always face the problem of retail store buyers wanting to only have 1 color per row as it looks nicer, so we end up with too many high value chips at the expense of the low value ones; but they still always want at least 4 colors of chips. Unfortunately we're always having to accomodate people who have probably never played a hand of poker in their life. The reason you see so many white edge spots is white is the cheapest color of plastic (after black), and by using white on all the chips for the edge spots the factory can pump out huge quantities of that '1st injection' for all the chips without ever having to stop the injection machine to clean it out to change colors (whch results in downtime and higher costs). So there is a production cost reason for the white edge spot - it's not just a sad lack of creativity! For those 300 11.5g dice chip sets in an aluminum case it really is an absolute commodity price war; basically whichever producer is willing to sell them for as close to $10 as possible will get the business each year. As you have suggested, finding calmer waters makes business sense : )
 

AmbassadorGames

Sitting Out
Site Vendor
Joined
Nov 15, 2020
Messages
36
Reaction score
94
Location
Hong Kong
welcome

As far as your chip offerings the only thing you have that could possibly be of interest here would be ceramics, and for that you would have to have a much better design and a realy low price.

We currently have a group buy going for 70k ceramics with custom designs for .30/chip and people already clamoring for a 2nd group buy. Your price even with a good design would have to be pretty low.

If you want to know what could make your chips better well bypass the slugged plastic chips. Several suppliers have tried to replicate as close as they can true compression molded (what we call clay) chips. Currently the Milano's, Majestics, Royals are sold and we call them"china clay" they have no metal slug and while not compression molded have a less plastic feel.

Prior there were some other versions made (like davinci spirit mold and palm imports progen) that felt even more like compression molded chips but had a durability problem and began flaking.

Any attempt to reasonably replicate true compression molded chips would be a major hit

Your trays and cases could be of interest for a group buy if you offered them.
Thanks for the comments. This is definitely something we're interested in. Are Paulson & Matsui the standard bearer for compression molded chips? Injection molding processes & capabilities in China are always improving, I would expect nobody in China has attempted this in many years, so perhpas the timing is right to look into it again. I'd be interested to pick up a few of the 'good chips' and take them apart and have out engineers consider ways to yield a similar result using our production capabilities.
 

AmbassadorGames

Sitting Out
Site Vendor
Joined
Nov 15, 2020
Messages
36
Reaction score
94
Location
Hong Kong
Here is an idea on the chips. Dice chips suck and clay chips is cost prohibitive. Why not partner up with Gene and fill these things up with DDLM or Tiki Kings?
Thanks for your message. I won't argue about our dice chips comment. Could you give a few more details about who Gene is, and what DDLM and Tiki Kings are?
 

wolfpack

Straight
Joined
Aug 4, 2020
Messages
788
Reaction score
835
Location
Ohio
Thanks for the comments. This is definitely something we're interested in. Are Paulson & Matsui the standard bearer for compression molded chips? Injection molding processes & capabilities in China are always improving, I would expect nobody in China has attempted this in many years, so perhpas the timing is right to look into it again. I'd be interested to pick up a few of the 'good chips' and take them apart and have out engineers consider ways to yield a similar result using our production capabilities.
There are on;y 2 manufacturers in the world who currently make compression molded chips.

Paulson owned by GPI and CPC. Matsui does not make compresson clays anymore. Paulson only sales to casinos, CPC sales custom chips to the home market

You can buy some paulsons from a closed casino from the forum vendor the chiproom
 

wolfpack

Straight
Joined
Aug 4, 2020
Messages
788
Reaction score
835
Location
Ohio
Thanks for your message. I won't argue about our dice chips comment. Could you give a few more details about who Gene is, and what DDLM and Tiki Kings are?

Gene is the owner of abc gifts and awards. DDLM and Tiki kings are lines of ceramic chips they sale that are popular
 

tabletalker7

Flush
Joined
Aug 8, 2019
Messages
1,473
Reaction score
1,802
Location
Buffalo NY
Thanks for your message. I won't argue about our dice chips comment. Could you give a few more details about who Gene is, and what DDLM and Tiki Kings are?
Gene is the owner of ABC gifts and Awards, BR Pro Poker, and a few others. They make ceramic poker chips. Not as good as compression clay, but still a very good option and also quite affordable. Lots of us have sets from them and we all love them. Knowing what they charge us, and how the price per chip drops as quantity goes up, you may be able to fill your assembly line with good quality chips at a reasonable price. Go to www.brpropoker.com to see what chips they currently offer, to include Dia De Los Muertos and Tiki Kings. Those two are the more popular offerings.

You mentioned also hearing back on costco's feedback that people are not liking the plastic cards. There are a lot of places that make plastic cards (Modiano and Fournier come to mind quick) that we have experimented with getting our own cards from but the MOQ for a custom run is so high that it disqualifies us here at PCF. I am sure with how many of these kits you have to go through, the MOQ will be meaningless to you.

Basically, it seems like you are trying to buy products from toy manufacturers and make a poker product. Poker products need to be made by poker people. Save the injection molding for action figures. Will these changes make your product more expensive? Probably. Have people shown that they are willing to spend more to get a quality product? That is for your market research team to figure out, but my gut tells me yes. Before the virus, my home was filled every weekend with guys who always want to know where I get my stuff from because it is so much better than anything they find in stores. If you put out a good quality product at a fair price, you can easily knock out all these toy manufacturers from the poker market and make a tidy sum in the process.
 

AmbassadorGames

Sitting Out
Site Vendor
Joined
Nov 15, 2020
Messages
36
Reaction score
94
Location
Hong Kong
From the details about this recent set made for wholesale I can tell this manufacturer managed to - consciously or unconsciously - significantly up the quality on the "entry level" poker chip sets for the masses, and this probably in a way that didn't significantly increase manufacturing costs.

- dropped the usual useless dice, fed saved money into upping quality of the remainder
- no useless $10/$50 denoms
- not the same spot color for every damn chip (like with dice chips), already looks much better
- judging by the pictures, apparently no frayed chip edges, but smooth and slightly rounded (best for plastic chips imo)
- supplied plastic cards instead of paper cards
- apparently sturdy case actually able to withstand its load

So definitely a hat tip for that.

However I doubt this community can help improve this product that much more if the overall goal still is to keep the price point roughly at the current level:

- Next upgrade to the chips would be to make them china clay - dropping the metal insert but adding weight to the plastic. R&D on material will be fairly costly if you don't want to end up with super fragile chips that would give you shit customer reviews. Or you source them from an established maker with known-good quality, but then again - costs.
- Another upgrade to chips would be an unique spot design for each chip (makes it easier to tell them apart in stacks), potentially adding a second spot color for some denominations. New injection molding machinery/molds required, steep cost. If you decide to do so, really do wildly different spots to maximize the usability benefit. The way the chips look on their rolling edge is what ultimately counts for this. Check with Matsui and the likes (those who make actual casino-grade plastic chips) for spot patterns that look good with the glossy plastic material.
- Upgrade to the cards - cheapo plastic cards still suck because of the haptics; replacing them with a quality brand like Fournier will up the final price quite a bit though. If you manufacture the cards yourself, aim for more flexible, less slippery cards. Basically more towards the haptics of textured linen finish paper cards. Stiff/slippery ones are super hard to shuffle in a proper fashion (riffle shuffle) and continue on sliding to wherever you don't want them to land - loads of frustration.

About the only thing apart from the fairly bland label design that probably can be improved in a cost-neutral way would be the sizing of the set and breakdown. The latter currently is just as poor as all the other low-end sets out there and could definitely use some tweaking.

If you don't want to spend much on a poker set, you likely play micro stakes if you go the cash game route. Your current set starts with a $1 chip, so the lowest stakes you can play with it is $1/$2 (i.e. usually $200 buy-ins). Who in their right mind will use a junk-y $50 poker set that can be bought at every bigger supermarket for such stakes? Chances are people would rather try to play tournaments with it, and T1 base tournaments are rather uncommon and also "feel" bland because all the numbers are so low. Most commonly, tournaments use T25 base or T100 base.

Make separate sets for cash game and tournament play.

Cash -- Sell sets with 25c or even down to 5c chips for cash games. This also adds an unique selling point - very few low-end denominated chip sets have a fractional chip, let alone a fractional as small as a nickel. Could do a bright yellow 25c (brown spots) and perhaps a white 5c (black/gray spots) to fit with your current designs.

Adjust the composition of the sets so they can be used more efficiently. This will require you to drop the "always multiples of 50 chips" thing but hey, if you're making huge quantities of these sets, you can make it work.

400 chip set microstakes 5c/10c ($10 buy-ins) up to 25c/50c ($50 buy-ins) for 6 players:
- 5c x 60
- 25c x 100
- $1 x 100
- $5 x 100
- $25 x 40
Total bank $1628 ($1625 excluding the 5c chips which aren't used in 25c/25c and up, or $628 excluding the $25 chips which aren't used in 5c/10c).
Means 62 buy-ins for 5c/10c games, 65 buy-ins for 25c/25c or still 32 buy-ins for 25c/50c. That's between 4-9 rebuys per player on average, so plenty of room for the target range of stakes.
There's enough fractional chips for six-handed play (10/14/6 stacks for first buy-in) but it can be made to work for 8 players too (first 4 players: 10/14/6, next 4 players 5/11/7). This was for stakes that require the 5c chip. For 25c/25c and 25c/50c stakes, you can do 16/11/X for 6 players or 12/12/X for 8 players.

Tournament -- Offer another set designed for tournament play. The smartest way would be offering a T100 base set so people can buy both the cash set and the tournament set and not have any "duplicate" denominations (i.e. the $25/T25) that could lead to costly mistakes for the game host. I am absolutely not a tournament head, so better have someone else with more tournament experience sketch a proper 400 chip breakdown for that.
Thanks for this message - really appreciate the time and thought you put into it. Alot of on-the-mark comments. Having different patterns on the different values of chips is not a big deal cost-wise; for a large project (such as this Costco one) we made over 20 new sets of molds (each with 2 different molds for the 2 injection steps). We easily could have done some of them with a different pattern. That's definitely something we should consider in the future. Same for the denominations. For the chip labels I agree they could be improved - probably that is one area we would potentially be interested in partnering up with some designers, if there are some in this community (I suspect the answer is problably "many great ones!"). The "China Clay" thing is something we'll need to explore. For the 98% of non aficionados in the market for poker chips, I'm not sure if they care what is hidden under the surface of the chip; but definitely their experience is impacted by how the chips feel and look and sound. Many of them are also brainwashed into thinking the heavier the chip the better - which is why we needed to make these Costco chips 13.5g. We tried to improve the material texture on this Costco set; we experimented with alot of resin & plastic combinations. It is much better than the ABS 11.5g dice chips, but we'll need to get our hands on some of these Paulson chips and China-Clay chips and see how ours measure up. Same for the plastic cards. Alot for us to chew on and digest. Thanks again for all of your suggestions and points.
 

LotsOfChips

Flush
Joined
Jul 10, 2019
Messages
1,017
Reaction score
1,121
Location
Chilliwack BC
I'm genuinely interested to learn about what you all think constitutes a good chip (structurally and materially speaking). If we felt we could make it an accessible price, of course we'd be interested to do it. That's kind of what I'm looking forward to reading about as I explore this site.
Caveat: I'm a relative newby on this site, and don't have a ton of experience with all of the chips mentioned below. However here is a bit of info for you on the various types of chips.

What constitutes a good (or great) chip is the subject of much debate on this forum. In many cases it comes down to a combination of look, feel, and sound. Sharpness of the edges, colors, edge spot colors and combinations, edge spot progression, how they feel and sound when shuffling or playing, how well they stack during play, weight (10g seems to be about the sweet spot), slipperiness, inlay design, and a lot of other factors come into play.

Most sought after are of course the compression molded "clay" chips such as those used in actual casinos, manufactured by Paulson (GPI - not available to the general consumer market) and non-casino custom chips, manufactured by CPC (available through custom order). These are quite pricy (>$1/chip in most cases, and in some cases upwards of $10/chip). Not what you would consider for mass marketing

Close behind in desirability are high quality custom ceramic chips (used in some casinos) such as Sunfly, and high end plastics (also used in some casinos) such as Matsui or Bud Jones. Cost can be <.30/chip, and the possibilities for custom design at an affordable cost make these types of chips fairly desirable for those that don't want to empty their bank accounts for a nice set of chips. (Still more expensive than most entry-level players would initially consider).

China Clays are injection molded chips that somewhat closely mimic the look (and partially the feel) of compression molded clay chips. Probably the best example of these would be the Royal Card Room (43mm) chips from Apache (site vendor). They have great colors, stack well, feel and sound reasonably good. They retail around .50/chip, so again, more than many entry level players might consider.

Then you get into the lesser priced china clays (Milanos, etc.), non-custom ceramics (Dia De los Muertes or DDLM, Tiki Kings, etc) available from ABC, followed by slugged plastic and then the ubiquitous Dice chips.

Personally I have a cash set of casino used Paulsons and a tournament set of Royal Card Room China Clays (CC). That's what my budget could afford, and way more (>10x) than I initially expected to pay before I landed on this site. Once my bank account recovers from Covid shock and I can actually play live poker again, I'll probably go the custom CPC route, based on the ability to make a completely unique set of my own design.
 

AmbassadorGames

Sitting Out
Site Vendor
Joined
Nov 15, 2020
Messages
36
Reaction score
94
Location
Hong Kong
This storage case is very unique. If you could develop the 500 to stack/interlock and transport well you'd have a winner. Better than a birdcage if these are as sturdy as they appear.

I'll offer to be a test consumer if you want to ship me some to test. ;) :)
That's a great idea for this, thanks for the message. I think very achievable. Sure we can add mini feet at the corners that could fit into cavitities on the upper side so they can stack up.
 

AmbassadorGames

Sitting Out
Site Vendor
Joined
Nov 15, 2020
Messages
36
Reaction score
94
Location
Hong Kong
Caveat: I'm a relative newby on this site, and don't have a ton of experience with all of the chips mentioned below. However here is a bit of info for you on the various types of chips.

What constitutes a good (or great) chip is the subject of much debate on this forum. In many cases it comes down to a combination of look, feel, and sound. Sharpness of the edges, colors, edge spot colors and combinations, edge spot progression, how they feel and sound when shuffling or playing, how well they stack during play, weight (10g seems to be about the sweet spot), slipperiness, inlay design, and a lot of other factors come into play.

Most sought after are of course the compression molded "clay" chips such as those used in actual casinos, manufactured by Paulson (GPI - not available to the general consumer market) and non-casino custom chips, manufactured by CPC (available through custom order). These are quite pricy (>$1/chip in most cases, and in some cases upwards of $10/chip). Not what you would consider for mass marketing

Close behind in desirability are high quality custom ceramic chips (used in some casinos) such as Sunfly, and high end plastics (also used in some casinos) such as Matsui or Bud Jones. Cost can be <.30/chip, and the possibilities for custom design at an affordable cost make these types of chips fairly desirable for those that don't want to empty their bank accounts for a nice set of chips. (Still more expensive than most entry-level players would initially consider).

China Clays are injection molded chips that somewhat closely mimic the look (and partially the feel) of compression molded clay chips. Probably the best example of these would be the Royal Card Room (43mm) chips from Apache (site vendor). They have great colors, stack well, feel and sound reasonably good. They retail around .50/chip, so again, more than many entry level players might consider.

Then you get into the lesser priced china clays (Milanos, etc.), non-custom ceramics (Dia De los Muertes or DDLM, Tiki Kings, etc) available from ABC, followed by slugged plastic and then the ubiquitous Dice chips.

Personally I have a cash set of casino used Paulsons and a tournament set of Royal Card Room China Clays (CC). That's what my budget could afford, and way more (>10x) than I initially expected to pay before I landed on this site. Once my bank account recovers from Covid shock and I can actually play live poker again, I'll probably go the custom CPC route, based on the ability to make a completely unique set of my own design.
Thanks for this overview. Really helpful to understand the big picture. We used to make ceramics about 12-15 years ago, but as our mass-markte retail customers narrowed their poker offerings and gradually grinded-down the retail prices we eventually stopped on them. They would still be expensive to make (for us, relatively speaking) due to the costs of the heat transfer printing. I'm more curious now about the 'china clay' idea; one advantage we have is scale, which sometimes allows us to make more technically difficult or expensive items at a signifcantly lower price through the effiiciences of mass production. We've made serious steps forward in the automation of our chip manufacturing in the past 12 months which is helpding us drive costs down further. Off the top of my head , if we could make them at a cost to retail them for around $0.05 - $0.10 a chip (so under $30 for 300) that may bridge these 2 worlds (our mass market one, with this afiocionado one). No idea if possible until we check these out and consider how they could be produced. But we'll explore : )
 

Nex

Flush
Joined
Jan 25, 2017
Messages
1,791
Reaction score
2,249
Location
Club Hel, Downtown Megacity
The "China Clay" thing is something we'll need to explore. For the 98% of non aficionados in the market for poker chips, I'm not sure if they care what is hidden under the surface of the chip; but definitely their experience is impacted by how the chips feel and look and sound. Many of them are also brainwashed into thinking the heavier the chip the better - which is why we needed to make these Costco chips 13.5g. We tried to improve the material texture on this Costco set; we experimented with alot of resin & plastic combinations. It is much better than the ABS 11.5g dice chips, but we'll need to get our hands on some of these Paulson chips and China-Clay chips and see how ours measure up.
Context: I have owned (actually still own, because it was my very first set) dice chips, I have owned slugged plastic "laser" chips, I own some ceramics, and I own a bigger amount of the expensive compression molded clay chips from CPC. I also have a couple of Paulsons, not in playable quantities but only for reference purposes.

To me, it's not at all about what's "inside" of the chips per se. The technical things I am looking for are:
  • uniform size (in particular thickness - so you can just put one stack of chips of which you know the amount next to another to quickly measure how many chips are in that other stack, or to quickly count out multiple equal stacks of chips)
  • solid stack-ability (i.e. no spinners (slightly convex surfaces) like it happens so often with slugged plastic chips) - should at least be able to stack 30 chips without any wobbling
  • just the right amount of surface texture, so the chips don't easily slide around when stacked (weight also ties in here), but still easy to take chips off of a stack (no interlocking chips)
  • no frayed chip edges (looks bad, feels bad, can even hurt) but either A) sharp edges with perfectly flat rolling edge (measurement of quality: chip can stand on its edge) or B) deliberately smooth, slightly rounded edges (feels good, gives tactile cue how many chips you hold). Variant A is hard to get right on compression clays and likely even harder on plastics; hence is pretty much reserved to the high-end expensive chips. Variant B however should be reachable even for low-end plastics.
  • preferably have the whole chip material colored throughout instead of painted/printed on (ceramics, which are printed on, quickly get unsightly white rings around the edges where the color scrubs off first from usage) - makes the chips look good for a longer period of time, wears them down more gracefully
  • varying edge spot designs (both good shape and color contrast; only the look on the rolling edge is important for the techical aspect) that make it easy to tell one denomination apart from another when chips are stacked; also making it easy to count stacked chips just by looking at it. Particularly important to easily be able to identify "dirty stacks" (i.e. a chip of one denomination accidentally mixed into a stack of chips of another denomination)
These properties above all improve certain aspects of gameplay; they aren't primarily subjective in the sense of "I simply like the looks of this more than the looks of that".
You can still go wild on the color and edge spot pattern selection under these guidelines and produce a lot of variations that will work.
  • One thing you can safely ignore is trying to eliminate weight variance among chips of the same design/production run. This is another measurement of quality with high-end chips, but has zero use outside professional/casino usage.
  • Another thing you can conditionally ignore is trying to find some nice mold design for the chips (the "embossed" shapes on the surface, like the famous "Top Hat & Cane" design from Paulson) - this just looks weird and out of place on glossy plastic chips in the style of Matsui/Bud Jones/Bourgogne & Grasset - which is the kind of style your current product leans towards.
    Where you should go for it however is if you're going the china clay route and pick edge spot designs reminiscent of compression clay chips (examples: Showdown/Monaco Club/Poker Knights, Pharaohs, Majestics, Royals)
China clays tend to have much fewer spinners if any, probably because of the missing metal slug. That is one of the major reasons why china clays are regarded as being among "the best of the cheap" around here.

There is a valid argument for heavier chips - of course the more the chips weigh, the more force is required to topple a stack of chips. But as detailed above, weight is not the only factor in that. Too high weight strains arms and fingers over time; too low weight will make chip stacks easy to topple regardless of the remaining important properties being met or not, and also makes the chips feel "cheap".

I would not go under 8g and not over 10g per chip. Aim for about 9g.
Buy a barrel (20 chips) of Paulsons and/or CPCs (which fall in that weight range) and check out their feel. Despite their significantly lower weight, they don't feel cheap at all and work well.
Buy a couple of china clay Pharaoh chips (available from Apache Poker Chips) to see quality china clays that also have great edges. Buy a couple of Progen80 chips to see what to avoid when making china clays (they are brittle as hell, super easy to break them - on the other hand, they stack a bit better).

If you meet with a prospective wholesale customer and they demand heavy chips, I think chances are good you can change their mind if you hand them a barrel each of those super heavy slugged chips, and of china clays.

Make sure they pick up a good amount of chips (~half barrel) and exercise the motion you usually do when betting chips in poker, multiple times, all while sitting at the table (not standing). Make them feel the strain which overly heavy chips generate. Make them notice how nicely the less heavy china clays stack, how the chip stack doesn't topple significantly easier than the one with the heavy slugged chips.
 
Last edited:

LeGold

Flush
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 31, 2020
Messages
1,174
Reaction score
2,019
Location
Norway
Thanks for your feedback. I've always liked those 300 and 500 trays myself, so wanted to find a way to make & sell more of them. What always held me back was finding a way to make them which would accomodate the variances in chip dimensions from different manufacturers. Are there any standards in these types of chip trays that satisfy most people? Like a chip measurement that could be used as the reference point to make sure we can fit 50 of them per row, that would then allow the majority of chips to fit inside? Logically you could just use the widest & thickest, but that could be annoying if it left an open space at the end of the row once 50 chips had been loaded, right? Interested to hear your thoughts.
I too am very interested in such trays (hoping you will get persuaded into selling them to us, somehow :) ). Stackable, yet with possibility to pick them up somehow (handles or inset "holes").

Size-wise - ideally, they shouldn't have too much open space when all the 50 (or whatever predefined number of) chips are put inside, both for stability and for easier counting. However, with 50 chips, one might want to group them with spacers in between? That would put a need for more space.

Bigger is not always better - one major issue with "standard" 100 chip racks (5x 20) is that they are often a few mm for deep, which for the majority(?) of chips means that they wobble. That means than when stacked on top of each other, something not uncommon, the whole tower becomes flimsy. So, offering 66.7mm deep racks would be a win in this community.

Another problem with abovementioned racks is that the inner diameter of the barrels is often too small, causing chips to get stuck on edges instead of rolling nicely (and potentially causing damage on chips when stacked). That is of course also dependent on the chips' diameter, and here we find quite a few variations. Still, here I feel that a tad wider would be better than a tad too narrow (experts please correct me).

Paulson did it just about right here with their racks - in addition, their racks have small notches on the sides (inside) that prevent the stacked racks to move horizontally. something I haven't seen on "cheap" racks.
 

Nex

Flush
Joined
Jan 25, 2017
Messages
1,791
Reaction score
2,249
Location
Club Hel, Downtown Megacity
Some more notes...
  • Add one or two plastic cut cards to the decks. Just try to make the surface of them matte, because if they are reflective, they will completely counter the reason why these cards are used (preventing peeking at the bottom card of the deck).

  • If doing a dedicated tournament set, try to include a simple battery-powered timer. To save a tiny bit on total manufacturing costs, perhaps make it in the shape of a dealer button (and drop the dedicated dealer button instead, also the blind buttons). Come to think of it, drop the blind buttons for the cash set too. The only thing that's really needed is the dealer button.

  • Supply specific instruction booklets (separate ones for the cash game set and the tournament set) that contain a little more than just the basic rules of poker: Information/best practices around how to run an actual game! I.e. for the cash set:
    • How cash a game works (compared to tournament)
    • What kind of stakes typically are played, and can be played with this set (5c/5c, 5c/10c, 10c/25c, 25c/25c, 25c/50c)
      • which range of buy-ins this means (most commonly 100 big blinds (BB), typical range from 50 BB-200 BB)​
        • note that it is typical for players to rebuy a few times if they lose their stack; for the sake of judging whether the stakes are just right, too high or too low for your group of players, calculate with being prepared to lose up to 3 buy-ins (300 BB) worst-case in one game night (i.e. $30 for 5c/10c or $150 for 25c/50c)​
        • note what implications different buy-in sizing has (>100 BB: deep stacks = more wiggle room for skilled play, usually play more hands; <100 BB: short stacks = more coin-flips, more all-ins, usually play fewer hands; 100 BB: the usual level that strikes a nice balance between the extremes = pick this if you have no clue yet)​
      • noting which implications it has if you choose to make big blind and small blind the same (a bit looser play (action!) blind vs. blind, and in some cases a little faster gameplay due to one chip denomination not being used)​
    • How to compose starting chip stacks, and in the greater sense, how to handle the chip bank and buy-ins/rebuys
    • How to properly shuffle cards (riffle-riffle-box-riffle, let another player cut)
    • How to properly hold the deck and deal cards (also: how to use the cut card)
    • How to properly handle your hole cards (lifting up to see what you have without enabling other players to see)
      • suggest using a card guard; worst case use one or two chips (explain why)​
    • Poker etiquette basics (with explanation why!)
      • no splashing the pot (why: clearly see who put how much into the pot)​
      • no string betting (why: clear information for other players)​
      • no going south/ratholing (why: fair play - allow other players to win back what you won from them)​
      • no chips/cards leaving the table otherwise (why: prevent cheating and going south)​
      • no hiding high denomination chips behind low denomination chips (why: clear iformation for other players about the size of your stack)​
      • clear play announcements (why: clear information for other players, avoiding mistakes)​
      • no acting out of turn (why: fair play - acting out of turn gives other players information)​
      • no teaming up (why: fair play - poker is a solo game)​
      • one player to a hand (why: fair play, avoid sharing information useful to other players still in the hand)​
        • exception: talking about a hand that is already over (or where no more actions are possible, i.e. when all remaining players are all-in) is OK​
      • etc.​
    • In addition to a poker hand ranking chart for each player, also include a somewhat solid hand selection matrix as guideline for clueless new players like this one from navels. Should not be too "tight" - new players don't like to fold 9 out of 10 hands they get (By the way, do check out that whole thread for more suggestions about what tips to potentially include in a newbie guide - contains strategy basics)
  • For the tournament set, this would for example include:
    • How a tournament works (compared to cash game)​
      • suggest playing for some amount of money or some other stuff of value (sweets, booze, etc.) rather than "for fun" - people play differently (more serious/better/stronger) if there's something tangible to win and to lose. Playing "just for fun" won't improve anyone's game by much​
    • A suggested blinds schedule; perhaps two different ones​
      • one for a longer, more skill-focused game (4-6 hours average)​
      • another for a short, more luck-influenced game (2, max. 3 hours average)​
      • suggestion for clueless newbies: the shorter one (they have no skill yet anyway to make use of the additional time, and they rather tend to get overwhelmed if the game goes on for too long in the beginning)​
      • some further information about how and why blind schedules are constructed the way they are​
      • change of game dynamics as blinds increase​
      • typical duration of a tournament based on blind schedule, starting stacks and number of players​
      • enforcing end of tournament with extreme blinds increases towards the end of the blinds schedule​
    • Suggested payouts for varying amount of players, plus basic explanation how these suggestions are constructed and what it means for tournament participants​
      • how many % of all players will be "in the money" -> bigger % better for newbies, more people "get a piece"​
      • how steep or flat the curve of payout increases is from last to first place -> steeper curve favors better players more, flatter curve better for newbies​
    • Starting stack composition for each player​
      • depending on chip breakdown, could also offer two different starting stack sizes​
        • one with significantly >100 BB in first blind level for longer play time​
        • another for shorter play time​
    • If the chip breakdown includes extra chips for "coloring up" (and it should):​
      • What is coloring up (removing a chip denomination that is no longer required for the current and future blind levels)​
      • Why do you do it (keeping stacks easily countable)​
      • How do you do it (best done during a scheduled break; different methods, suggested: race for chips)​

The expanded instruction booklets are pretty much a one-time investment and have the potential to strongly improve reviews from Average Joe "I have never played Poker before" type customers who, without these instructions, would likely end up running a game that ends in chaos and not much fun. For a group of complete newbies, chances are higher they will have an enjoyable first poker night if given more guidelines than just the basic rules of poker.

Since there are a few excourses in theory-heavy territory among these suggested booklet contents, it might be a good idea to put the advanced stuff into a separate "further reading for the interested" section and merely reference it from various places in the other section with basic information.

For the issue of clueless customers asking for a single color of chips per row in the case, this can possibly be amended by changing the inner structure of the case: Rather than having 50-chip columns, perhaps try putting multiple (2 or 3) rows of 20-chip columns inside. That way, each separate column can consist of a single color. Also, as Zombie suggests in the post below, this makes it much easier to get chips out of and into the case.
 
Last edited:

Poker Zombie

Royal Flush
Joined
Oct 29, 2014
Messages
12,338
Reaction score
21,557
Location
Nashville-ish
Thanks for your feedback. I've always liked those 300 and 500 trays myself, so wanted to find a way to make & sell more of them. What always held me back was finding a way to make them which would accomodate the variances in chip dimensions from different manufacturers. Are there any standards in these types of chip trays that satisfy most people? Like a chip measurement that could be used as the reference point to make sure we can fit 50 of them per row, that would then allow the majority of chips to fit inside? Logically you could just use the widest & thickest, but that could be annoying if it left an open space at the end of the row once 50 chips had been loaded, right? Interested to hear your thoughts.
39mm is by far the most common diameter. Thickness varies considerably, but (as someone else pointed out) putting spacers in there is extremely common. You see it in chip trays in casinos all the time, because having 50 chips in a row is cumbersome. They dont just pop out, you have to tilt the chip, then wedge your thumb in there to get the chips out. If the chips are slippery (as your type of chip tends to be) that imperfect grip can cause a "barrel explosion" - a stack of chips that shoots everywhere because the pinching grip was uncentered on the chip.

Here is a shot of what a spacer looks like in a rack. You can see that they are a smaller diameter (the camera flash illuminated the 2 edges of the spacer). That smaller diameter allows a thumb to get in there easier, and I can pull out 20 chips at a time, which makes counting stacks easier (most chip racks hold 100 chips, in 5 barrels (rows) of 20.
2020-11-22 09.26.39.jpg


Adding more or less spacers makes up for any "slop" if the chips are thinner than the rack holds.
 

Goldfish

Straight
Joined
Jan 23, 2020
Messages
933
Reaction score
1,601
Location
Maryland
Thanks for the comments. This is definitely something we're interested in. Are Paulson & Matsui the standard bearer for compression molded chips? Injection molding processes & capabilities in China are always improving, I would expect nobody in China has attempted this in many years, so perhpas the timing is right to look into it again. I'd be interested to pick up a few of the 'good chips' and take them apart and have out engineers consider ways to yield a similar result using our production capabilities.
While I am certainly not an expert in poker chips, I have purchased a number of low end sets during my poker chip journey. Without a doubt, the best inexpensive set I ever owned, and still currently own, is the “all in” clay poker chip set (sorry for the crappy pic). These have a great clay feel and weight. They stack well And the cost was in line with other inexpensive chip sets. In my opinion, these are an inexpensive way to play with a somewhat decent chip as compared to the plastic chip. I don’t see these for sale anymore. Any specific reason why? Can these be made with denominations? Maybe something for you to look into. Just a thought.
174AEF7A-DD94-4736-894D-6C8A9504D74B.jpeg
 

LotsOfChips

Flush
Joined
Jul 10, 2019
Messages
1,017
Reaction score
1,121
Location
Chilliwack BC
+1 for including denominations on the chips (and +0.5 for having separate cash and tournament sets). That is the reason I found this site in the first place, as the gifted 500 piece set I had did not have denominations, and I wanted something that did. I could probably have lived with a set that had denominations suitable for both cash and tournament, but after coming here, I think it is best to have separate sets.
 

Nex

Flush
Joined
Jan 25, 2017
Messages
1,791
Reaction score
2,249
Location
Club Hel, Downtown Megacity
Denominated chips are less flexible than undenominated ones - but the flexibility is deceptive.
  • One, it can cause big issues for the game host / bank holder when someone pockets a chip while it is "worth" just a small amount of money or virtually nothing (like in a tournament), then later sneaks it back into the game when the chip is declared to be "worth" more.
  • Two, it can cause confusion because people need to remember which color is worth how much. This is particularly nasty for newbie players and can massively slow down the game.
    If the host/bank holder sticks to "traditional" color assignments ($1=white/blue, $5=red, $25=green, $100=black) then people with casino experience may find the color-value assignment easier to remember.
    But there will always be the crazy guy who makes up his own strange color assignments, like e.g. $1=green, $5=white and $25=red, where no previous experience will be of help.
In my opinion, all summed up, I'd argue that the advantages of denominated chips more than outweigh their drawbacks. Particularly for inexperienced players and hosts.

Some examples how to neatly fit the proposed cash game breakdown into a case, in 20-chip barrels --
(Not the same colors of course. 5c=red, 25c=green, $1=blue, $5=yellow, $25=purple here.)
(Re: Crazy dude mentioned above: There is another major color scheme which is very popular in California where $1 is blue, $5 is yellow, $25 is purple and $100 is white. For fractional chips, there are no real "standard colors" in either of these two color schemes.)
85A_4569r=2048t.jpg


85A_4568r=2048t.jpg


85A_4566r=2048t.jpg

Also a comparison to show how varying edge spot patterns (in addition to colors) can help in telling chips apart --
85A_4558ecr=2048t.jpg 85A_4559ecr=2048t.jpg
(Simulating extremely bad lighting conditions / color blindness by turning the photos into grayscale)
85A_4558ecgr=2048t.jpg 85A_4559ecgr=2048t.jpg
(click thumbnails to enlarge)
 

TheWhat

Two Pair
Joined
Apr 23, 2020
Messages
355
Reaction score
245
Location
MB, Canada
Unfortunate there is no direct option of purchasing. Some of your cases could likely go over well with this group.
 

Nex

Flush
Joined
Jan 25, 2017
Messages
1,791
Reaction score
2,249
Location
Club Hel, Downtown Megacity
Quickly sketched a breakdown for a 400-chip tournament set for up to 10 players, with up to 10 rebuys optionally (= 1 per player):
- T100 x 100
- T500 x 60
- T1,000 x 150
- T5,000 x 90
(Starting stacks: 10/4/12/X)

One could run this with:
- T20,000 starting stacks, 100/200 starting blinds (100 BB stack) and a faster blind schedule for quick luckbox tournaments where each player could optionally rebuy up to two times, or
- increase starting stacks to T30,000 (150 BB) and slowing down the blind schedule for a bit longer play time with optionally max one rebuy per player, or
- drop the ability for rebuys and use T40,000 (200 BB) up to T60,000 (300 BB) starting stacks for a long running, deep stacked tournament.

Calculation includes extra chips for coloring up the T100 and T500 chips as the tournament progresses.
Rebuys are done exclusively with T5,000 chips; need to make change for an appropriate number of lower denom chips with people at the table. Yes, it does waste time, but it works using significantly fewer chips - more bang for the buck.

Chip counts are even more "odd" than the cash game set breakdown, so a bigger challenge to put them into a case in a neat way. But you won't be able to get anywhere near the efficiency of this breakdown here if you try to make the counts of all denoms multiples of 50. You'd need to include a lot more chips and many of them would just stay unused all the time.

Example blind structures spit out by an online calculator:
- T20,000, 2 hours, no rebuys - 6 players / 10 players
- T20,000, 4 hours, 30% rebuys - 6 players / 10 players
- T30,000, 3.5 hours, 50% rebuys - 6 players / 10 players
- T60,000, 6 hours, no rebuys - 6 players / 10 players
Caution: This calculator generates very odd blinds in some cases, also it does not aim for even distribution of color-up breaks - manually adjust or consult a tournament director on this forum. These are a starting point but you'll want to tweak them.

You probably also do not want to include this many different blind schedule charts in the instruction booklet, but pick some baseline for the combination of # of players, starting stack and # of rebuys and add instructions on how to shorten or prolong the tournament by changing blind level time (can vary ~10/15/20/30 min). This allows people to choose e.g. between 4hrs or 6hrs of total playtime using the very same blind schedule for the T60,000 deep stack, just with different blind times - or choose between 2hrs and 4 hrs for the T20,000.

May also want to leave out blind schedules that include rebuys but apart from that are a duplicate of another included schedule.

Usual color scheme (taken from high-value cash chips in casinos):
T100=black
T500=lavender/purple (alternative: pink) - make sure it has enough contrast to the T100
T1,000=orange (alternative: yellow, but avoid re-using a color from the cash game set)
T5,000=gray (alternatives: white or blue, but avoid re-using colors from the cash game set)

Again: I am not a tournament head, so do cross-check with someone who has more tournament experience.

tournament400.png
 

Colquhoun

3 of a Kind
Joined
Apr 4, 2020
Messages
571
Reaction score
942
Location
Long Island, NY
The average joe buying a $50 chipset in Costco has very little idea about hosting a tournament...starting stacks, blind schedules, rebuys, etc.
We are so used to it that it all makes perfect sense to us, but I'm sure it is lost on the the Costco buyer, who's thinking, "Cool looking chips, nice price, lets play!"
 

Nex

Flush
Joined
Jan 25, 2017
Messages
1,791
Reaction score
2,249
Location
Club Hel, Downtown Megacity
The average joe buying a $50 chipset in Costco has very little idea about hosting a tournament...starting stacks, blind schedules, rebuys, etc.
We are so used to it that it all makes perfect sense to us, but I'm sure it is lost on the the Costco buyer, who's thinking, "Cool looking chips, nice price, lets play!"
Which is why I suggested to throw an expanded booklet into the box that explains Mr. Average Joe exactly how to run a tournament that works. Of course it won't/can't be so verbose as to explain the math and all the considerations behind it, but give them an exemplary setup that, if followed, should give them an enjoyable evening of poker.

I don't remember ever seeing a pre-made poker set that would supply a blind schedule and a list of chips of which to compose a starting stack, for example.
 
Top Bottom