Hellmuth just won bracelet number 15 (1 Viewer)

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I love it. People smugly criticize him, like the game has passed him by. Truth is that some people have had success playing a different style, but Phil continues to have success playing his style.
 
Phil is... Okay.

He's certainly a good poker player, you can't argue with his results. It's just too bad that he's usually an asshole with a huge ego. Arrogance is one of the few personality traits that really grinds my gears though, so the ego might bother me more than others.

What he's certainly not is one of the elite hold em players in today's professional (and especially high roller) player pool. He is a huge underdog in any of the really elite NLHE tournaments. He's definitely not worth a 1.8 mark-up.

Still, all time leader in bracelets and another one on top is nothing to choke at. Congratulations are due.
 
Phil is... Okay.

He's certainly a good poker player, you can't argue with his results. It's just too bad that he's usually an asshole with a huge ego. Arrogance is one of the few personality traits that really grinds my gears though, so the ego might bother me more than others.

What he's certainly not is one of the elite hold em players in today's professional (and especially high roller) player pool. He is a huge underdog in any of the really elite NLHE tournaments. He's definitely not worth a 1.8 mark-up.

Still, all time leader in bracelets and another one on top is nothing to choke at. Congratulations are due.
I can’t argue with most of that. But I’m not sure what the high roller player pool is worth. You have a small handful of guys with access to massive amounts of cash that play a few tournaments each year with very small fields.
I think it’s possible that we put a lot more emphasis on those events than they deserve.

But as far as Helmuth goes, I think his strongest skill is knowing when he’s behind and then laying it down. He might be better than anybody at that, and it takes him far in deep tournaments.
 
PH is a huge egocentric douche bag. That being said, he's a great tournament player and I personally find him entertaining to watch when he freaks out on his rants. 15 WSOP bracelets (5 more than anyone else) is an amazing statistic - can't argue with that.
 
PH is a huge egocentric douche bag. That being said, he's a great tournament player and I personally find him entertaining to watch when he freaks out on his rants. 15 WSOP bracelets (5 more than anyone else) is an amazing statistic - can't argue with that.

+1^^^^^, I feel the same way, entertaining..
 
Regardless of what you think of Phil, and some of it is deserved, he has 15 bracelets. That speaks for itself.
 
15 bracelets...say what you want about the guy, but 15 bracelets is just unreal. He continues to get flak for actions at the table, but off the felt people have mostly nothing but praises to say about him. Nobody is even ballpark 15 bracelets and the guy still isn't done. Impressive.
 
Yet that elusive NLHE bracelet continues to elude him...great job nonetheless!

This bracelet was in a $5k NLHE event.

I can’t argue with most of that. But I’m not sure what the high roller player pool is worth. You have a small handful of guys with access to massive amounts of cash that play a few tournaments each year with very small fields.
I think it’s possible that we put a lot more emphasis on those events than they deserve.

But as far as Helmuth goes, I think his strongest skill is knowing when he’s behind and then laying it down. He might be better than anybody at that, and it takes him far in deep tournaments.

Yeah, I agree for the most part. Anything $10-15k and above (besides perhaps WSOP events) is probably going to drive out most of the amateurs/rec players that make tournaments +EV.

Phil is entertaining for sure. Good for the game in some respects (off the felt) but also can be really polorizing (on the felt outbursts).
 
Good for him. Ironic this happens right after his controversy in the ME. He made that right for what it's worth.
 
I've never met him, but I doubt he's really a douchebag. Nobody is a lovable saint 100% of the time. I've read enough to know that he's not necessarily proud of those televised moments where he loses his shit.
 
I've never met him, but I doubt he's really a douchebag. Nobody is a lovable saint 100% of the time. I've read enough to know that he's not necessarily proud of those televised moments where he loses his shit.

Yet he does it over and over again...and gets away from it due to his name.

I do agree with you though, I doubt he's a douche away from the table and outside of those outbursts. I've seen him playing in some smaller stakes cash games (on Brad Owen's or Andrew Neeme's blog I think) and he seems more friendly and fun to play with if there's nothing huge on the line.
 
I've never met him, but I doubt he's really a douchebag. Nobody is a lovable saint 100% of the time. I've read enough to know that he's not necessarily proud of those televised moments where he loses his shit.

I see this all the time and other players defend him with this same argument and it just irks me more. He's a nice guy to us, he just treats other players like garbage to get an edge at the table! is still the attitude of an obnoxious person. It's called treating people with respect. It reminds me of people who seem genuinely nice but then treat service people like garbage because they can or want to act slighted to get free stuff. If you are capable of being a d-bag don't be a d-bag.
 
I find it amusing the number of people with 0 bracelets critical of a player with 15.

He may be an intolerable egomaniac, but so is <insert athlete name here> and they are considered the best. The game changes and PH may not be the pinnacle of the game at this moment, but his results are incredible and span decades. I've had many a daydream that ends in a single bracelet, let alone multiple.
 
I find it amusing the number of people with 0 bracelets critical of a player with 15.

He may be an intolerable egomaniac, but so is <insert athlete name here> and they are considered the best. The game changes and PH may not be the pinnacle of the game at this moment, but his results are incredible and span decades. I've had many a daydream that ends in a single bracelet, let alone multiple.
I was thinking that too. I’ve seen so many athletes, Richard Sherman comes to mind, being a douche on the field. Tom Brady, screaming at his whole layers and coaches and refs. Whether it’s a tool of their greatness or a byproduct of it - you can’t argue with the results.
 
Daniel Negreanu is the most successful tournament player of all time and one of the nicest guys in poker. Success isn't an excuse for being an A-hole
 
Daniel Negreanu is the most successful tournament player of all time and one of the nicest guys in poker. Success isn't an excuse for being an A-hole
Daniel is my favorite, and probably for that reason. But let’s not kid ourselves, he’s not perfect. He can be arrogant too, and I’ve seen him get pissy at the table from time to time. Phil is the poker brat, and the cameras are always waiting for that next outburst. He can be a smiley, chatty table captain too, but he’s not as good at it as guys like Daniel or Antonio because he’s just naturally a bit of an awkward guy.
I guess I’m trying to say that I think it really is all just shades of gray. If you watch these guys play for hours, and don’t just focus on the tv/YouTube clips, and temper it all with the truth that these guys are all flawed humans - what I get out of all that is that Helmuth isn’t bad, just an imperfect guy who’s really good at big tournaments.
 
Daniel is my favorite, and probably for that reason. But let’s not kid ourselves, he’s not perfect. He can be arrogant too, and I’ve seen him get pissy at the table from time to time. Phil is the poker brat, and the cameras are always waiting for that next outburst. He can be a smiley, chatty table captain too, but he’s not as good at it as guys like Daniel or Antonio because he’s just naturally a bit of an awkward guy.
I guess I’m trying to say that I think it really is all just shades of gray. If you watch these guys play for hours, and don’t just focus on the tv/YouTube clips, and temper it all with the truth that these guys are all flawed humans - what I get out of all that is that Helmuth isn’t bad, just an imperfect guy who’s really good at big tournaments.

I don't question Hellmuth as a poker player but as a person. In the modern era of every major game being broadcast in some way if you have any evidence of Negreanu acting in any way like Hellmuth does feel free to post it. I just hate the reality that people get to be nice to certain people like the Hellmuth story above and then treat others like garbage and get to be called complicated. Hellmuth might be a nice guy when he chooses to be but he is a verified jerk at the tables. I refuse to defend him because of that.
 
I don't question Hellmuth as a poker player but as a person. In the modern era of every major game being broadcast in some way if you have any evidence of Negreanu acting in any way like Hellmuth does feel free to post it. I just hate the reality that people get to be nice to certain people like the Hellmuth story above and then treat others like garbage and get to be called complicated. Hellmuth might be a nice guy when he chooses to be but he is a verified jerk at the tables. I refuse to defend him because of that.

IMO, one of the biggest problems we have in our culture is that too many people think that being wealthy, famous, or highly skilled in a competitive field makes you a good person or even a "hero" - often in spite of lots of evidence to the contrary.
 
I'm curious what his win rate is...he's been playing a lot of tournaments for a lot of years. 15 wins out of how many?
 
I'm curious what his win rate is...he's been playing a lot of tournaments for a lot of years. 15 wins out of how many?
I don’t think those numbers exist in any accessible format. But I remember he did a long interview with Doug Polk last summer in which I think he addressed that - he might have even given a percentage.
FWIW, he also has the record for most WSOP cashes, which is something like 150. But I guess that leaves you with the same question.
It’s a volume business for sure, just like the player of the year awards. That’s why you’ll see some guys like Deeb, who will register for multiple tournaments at the same time, and bounce back and forth when necessary.
 
IMO, one of the biggest problems we have in our culture is that too many people think that being wealthy, famous, or highly skilled in a competitive field makes you a good person or even a "hero" - often in spite of lots of evidence to the contrary.

I was going to go on a similar but much longer rant but stopped myself. Hellmuth is one of the greatest poker players of all time because of his success but he's famous for being obnoxious. Actively trying to irritate people is the number one way to become a celebrity in modern society. I'm sure once he decides he's done with poker VH1 will give him some awful reality show and pay him millions of dollars to act like a brat for the cameras.

I'm curious what his win rate is...he's been playing a lot of tournaments for a lot of years. 15 wins out of how many?

In Hellmuth's defense he probably has one of the higher win/cash percentages of all time with a minimum of 100 entries at the WSOP as well. He has the most bracelets and cashes by far and I doubt he's entering 30+ events like some of the younger guys do. There are probably several people with just as many or more entries that don't even have 2 bracelets.
 
I was going to go on a similar but much longer rant but stopped myself.

Ditto that. :)

I was figuring out how to start the second paragraph and decided to go short and sweet instead, otherwise I might have been writing all afternoon.
 

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