Tourney Have to submit rules to the Gaming Commission ... need opinions

MaxB

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Hi,

We are starting up the Applewood charity poker events at a local micro-brewery. There are some new rules with NH gaming commission and they now need detailed rules for the tournament. I had a ton already, but I need opinions for two things: 1) did I miss anything 2) would you change anything

If anyone has feedback, I'd appreciate it. Tourney will be sometime mid-November. Some of this stuff is obvious but I have to submit it. Side notes marked as **

12 noon – 12:45 is check-in

Drawing for seat assignment is 12:45

Game starts at 1pm

Tournament is No Limit Texas Hold ‘em

9 players max per table (main table seats 10), 6 tables (55 people max)

$45 buy in gets you 5000 in chips and a beer ticket

Limit 3 rebuys through level 6 ** looking into this as the rules have changed and can't do unlimited anymore

Can only rebuy after busting out

Rebuys are $40 for 5000 chips

At the end of level 6, optional add-on (does not need to be busted out)

Anyone can add-on for $40 and get an additional 5000 in chips

Payout is 48% to players, 52% to Applewood (see payout breakdown below)

Dedicated licensed dealers on each table ** sucks to plan, great for the game

Players draw for seating assignments, no self seating

Each table will have an info card containing chip values and blind structure

Tourney director will keep track of blinds and time (using Talking Poker App as a reference)

Tourney director will verbally remind players of remaining time throughout each level

Current blinds will be written on white board for everyone to see

Tourney director will have final say in any disputes or issues during the poker game **yours truly is the director

All chips have the denominations clearly marked and each denomination is a different color chip

No straddling

No double running (can not run it twice for half pot each time)

No playing for another player

No sharing chips/ no giving other players chips

If a player can no longer continue to play, their remaining chips will be removed from play and returned to the locked chip storage box

No touching other players chips

Dealer will put the chips in for players if they are not present for the blinds

Dealers will be the only people shuffling cards

Each dealer will have two decks of cards

Tourney director will have multiple decks of cards for extras….any markings on the cards found will result in a new deck used at that table

Betting must be at least the size of the current wager (i.e. if Player 5 bets 100, then if Player 6 wants to raise, they must raise at least an additional 100 (200 total))

If a dealer flips a card over during dealing, then that card becomes the first burn card. The dealer will continue to deal in order. Once the final player is dealt his/her second card, then the dealer will deal one more card to the player who’s card was flipped over. There will be no burn card before the flop. If a dealer flips a second card over during the dealing, the hand will be voided as a misdeal, and all players will return their cards. The dealer will reshuffle and start over

No rabbit hunting is allowed. If the hand ends before the turn or river, the dealer may not show those remaining cards to the players

Picking up another players mucked cards will not be tolerated. A warning will be issued to the player. A second offense will result in the player being dismissed from the game and no refund will be given

Cards may not leave the table

Bags/purses/backpacks are not allowed on the tables

When a player needs a rebuy, they will see the tournament director who will take the payment, mark on the tourney roster each rebuy for each player, and provide 5000 worth in chips

Chips are no cash value and do not represent actual money **obviously

Phones will be allowed however not for advice on hands. If a player is using a phone for getting help, they will be warned. Next offense they will be required to put the phone away. Third time they will be removed from the game with no refund

Any/all cheating such as looking at other players cards, marking cards, stealing chips from other players or the pot, etc . will result in immediate removal from the game with no refund

Location of the game is not taking a rake or charging Applewood Learning Center for its use.

Blinds listed below, paid before hand is dealt. Two cards each player, face down. Round of betting with a minimum bet the size of the big blind. After betting, dealer burns a card face down, then three cards (the flop) are turned face up. Round of betting. Another burn card face down then a card face up (the turn). Another round of betting, then another card burned face down followed by a card face up (the river). Hand ends with a final round of betting. Highest hand wins based on the following ranking of hands (highest to lowest):

Royal Flush

Straight Flush

4 of a kind

Full House

Flush

Straight

Three of a Kind

Two Pair

Two of a Kind (single pair)

High Card (Ace is both high and low)

Food and beverages will be allowed at the tables .... food not on the tables

All players need to be 21 or over. ID’s will be checked before assigning a seat

Dealers are volunteer and are not paid.

If two or more hands are tied at the end, then the pot is split evenly with all players. If a leftover chip remains, then it is given to the winning player who is the first hand clockwise from the button

Dealers may not help players decide what to do

A player deciding to bet or raise must either announce what the bet/raise is or push the chips out…..String bets are not allowed. If Player 1 bets 200, and Player 2 wants to raise, they can not throw out chips worth 200, then either say raise or grab more chips to raise with (that’s a string bet). If they announce raise, they can then push the minimum 200 out, then decide on the additional amount of raise.

Players may not change the amount to bet. If they throw out a 500 chip, then can not say they thought it was 100. The 500 bet is binding. However if they declare verbally a bet of 100 and then throw a 500 out, that first verbal bet will be the one accepted and the dealer will refund the 400 difference or allow the player to switch it to a 100 chip

A player can not win more than they have. i.e Player 8 bets 5500. Player 9 only has 3500 chips. If they want to play, they can bet 3500 (all in). The 3500 will go into the main pot. The dealer will then take 2000 from Player 8’s bet of 5500 and create a side pot. Player 10 calls the 5500, so the dealer will place 3500 of it in the main pot and the remaining 2000 in the side pot (main pot 10500, side pot 4000) If Player 9 wins the hand, he/she can only collect from the main pot and the winner between Player 8 and 10 will decide who gets the side pot

Tourney director will be in charge or reseating players as tables become empty from busting out. Tables will have evenly distributed players (within 2) of each other. Players will be moved based on location from blinds. i.e. a player on table 4 who just finished being the small and big blind will not be seated on another table where they will start at the blinds again




PAYOUT BREAKDOWN

POSITION 11-15 16-22 23-32 33-41 42-55 ß# players

1 60% 50% 47% 45% 43%

2 30% 30% 28% 25% 23%

3 10% 20% 15% 15% 13%

4 10% 10% 9%

5 5% 7%

6 5%








BLIND BREAKDOWN AND LEVEL/ROUND TIMES (subject to change)

Level Min SB BB RunTime BB Increase %

1 15 25 50 0:15 ROUND 1 – rebuys allowed

2 15 25 75 0:30 50%

3 15 50 100 0:45 33%

4 15 75 150 1:00 50%

5 15 100 200 1:15 33%

6 15 150 300 1:30 50% Add-On allowed at end of this level

Break & Color Up (T25) – No more rebuys - 15 min break

7 15 200 400 2:00 33% ROUND 2 – no rebuys

8 15 300 600 2:15 50%

9 15 400 800 2:30 33%

10 15 600 1200 2:45 50%

11 15 800 1600 3:00 33%

12 15 1200 2400 3:15 33%

Break & Color Up (T100) - 10 min break

13 15 1500 3000 3:40 25% ROUND 3 – no rebuys

14 15 2000 4000 3:55 33%

15 15 3000 6000 4:10 50%

16 15 4500 9000 4:25 50% *** estimating the game will end here

17 15 6000 12000 4:40 33%

18 15 8000 16000 4:55 33%

19 15 10000 20000 5:10 25%

20 15 15000 30000 5:25 50%

21 15 20000 40000 5:40 33%
 
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DJ Mack

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I'm sure others will chime in but in my quick scan where you say dealers will have two decks at each table - you should specify that they must have different color backs.
 

MaxB

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good call .... something I always do but can't be assumed
 

DJ Mack

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Also, I'd suggest grouping these somehow. You've got the times and other logistics up at the top and then down at the bottom you say people have to be 21 to play. That's all preliminary stuff. Similarly you mentioned all dealers are licensed up top but then down at the bottom say they're not paid. It would help if you sectionalized them into something like Tournament Logistics (times, minimum age, payouts), Tournament Personnel (which could be broken into a subsection on dealers and a subsection on the director), Game Rules, Player Conduct, etc.

In addition to submitting these to the gaming commission you'll want to have an identical copy printed and available on site, which may even be a requirement. You can't have your players, dealers, or you searching all through a randomly ordered document to find the essentials.

Lastly reason to organize - you want the least amount of attention possible from the gaming commission. If you turn in a haphazard rule sheet they might question just how professionally run the operation will be, which could encourage more scrutiny on game day or after (hint hint). @Blaster's given you some good material to work with. Get some good section headers and it'll look great.
 

WedgeRock

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You can't have your players, dealers, or you searching all through a randomly ordered document to find the essentials.

This.

I've been playing with the same group of guys for 14 years. Everyone knows what they are doing and there are rarely disputes. But this Saturday, two rulings were requested. I consulted the printed rules which quickly resolved both disputes.

FWIW, we used RROP as a basis for our rulebook. Feel free to review it here.
 

justsomedude

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Also, I'd suggest grouping these somehow. You've got the times and other logistics up at the top and then down at the bottom you say people have to be 21 to play. That's all preliminary stuff. Similarly you mentioned all dealers are licensed up top but then down at the bottom say they're not paid. It would help if you sectionalized them into something like Tournament Logistics (times, minimum age, payouts), Tournament Personnel (which could be broken into a subsection on dealers and a subsection on the director), Game Rules, Player Conduct, etc.

+1 to this.

If it's being reviewed by a gaming commission, you'll probably also need to use a formal outline format, like the WSOP uses. Meaning, each rule will need to be categorized and numbered, for quick reference. For example: Section A. Tournament Logistics, Rule 2. Payouts.

If you want to be taken seriously, make a serious document.
 

abby99

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Might be a typo, but the maximum number of players is 6 x 9 = 54, not 55.
 

phaze12

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You might want to change the word "rebuy" to "re-entry" since that is the type of tourney you are running. bit of a difference between the two.
 

MrWitti

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"If a player can no longer continue to play, their remaining chips will be removed from play and returned to the locked chip storage box"


Is this common practice? We always blinded them out, even allowed them to cash?
 

MaxB

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+1 to this.

If it's being reviewed by a gaming commission, you'll probably also need to use a formal outline format, like the WSOP uses. Meaning, each rule will need to be categorized and numbered, for quick reference. For example: Section A. Tournament Logistics, Rule 2. Payouts.

If you want to be taken seriously, make a serious document.


There is a formal submission format that I have to use ....the above was me trying to remember just about everything that might be asked or come up


if your main buy in is 45 and the rebuy top ups are 40 aren't you devaluing the chips?

No, the $45 initial includes an extra $5 for a beer. To help promote the microbrewery, we are having one drink prepaid (soda is an option instead of beer) .....that money is separate from the main earnings and is classified as something else with the state (I don't have to worry about that part as the person in charge of the paperwork will deal with it)

Why not just say "no phone use while you're in a hand" instead of trying to determine if somebody's using it for advice?

That's a great idea! (and why I am asking for opinions)

You might want to change the word "rebuy" to "re-entry" since that is the type of tourney you are running. bit of a difference between the two.

I like this...it will be changed

"If a player can no longer continue to play, their remaining chips will be removed from play and returned to the locked chip storage box"

Is this common practice? We always blinded them out, even allowed them to cash?

If they have 50k in chips, and the blinds are 150-300 , thats a PITA. Easier to remove the chips from play and continue. The important part is not to give any of the chips to anyone else as freebee's or to let someone else play in their place.


Then it's not "9 players max per table". :cool:


I'll fix that just for you (y) :thumbsup: ... I have to remember the people reading this at the state are probably not big poker players nor are they PCF members, so I do need to be clear
 
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MaxB

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More importantly what kind of chips will you be using?

Cheap chips from Apache. As long as they are marked with the denominations, the Gaming Commission is fine with any chips (we checked into that early). I stopped using the Aztars because I was missing more than a few chips from the last game.... not to mention a couple of broken chips. Was not thrilled so I sold both sets of Aztars and bought semi-cheepos. (y) :thumbsup:
 

DJ Mack

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Cheap chips from Apache. As long as they are marked with the denominations, the Gaming Commission is fine with any chips (we checked into that early).
That's interesting. I would think they would be a bit more concerned about someone being able to sneak their own chips in, particularly if this becomes a regularly recurring tournament.
 

MaxB

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That's interesting. I would think they would be a bit more concerned about someone being able to sneak their own chips in, particularly if this becomes a regularly recurring tournament.

Unless I use custom chips, there's no way to prevent that from happening. All chips to and from the table will be handled by me...the dealers will be looking for anything suspicious. There's also different sets of chips, so who knows which set will appear

I also know how many chips are on each table and during chip up will know each time. A table with a difference in chips will be dealt with
 

DJ Mack

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Unless I use custom chips, there's no way to prevent that from happening.
What I'm saying is if you're gaming commission approved, does that mean you can do business with GPI? You know, like the 4,000 chips you need to run the tournament plus the secondary and tertiary sets that never see play but your uh, friends, are testing for durability? ;)
 

WedgeRock

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I also know how many chips are on each table and during chip up will know each time. A table with a difference in chips will be dealt with

What about balancing tables? That will move chips from table to table in uneven amounts.
 

WedgeRock

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I have to keep track of the exact chips moving ..... sucky but I have to do it

Even if you uncover someone "going north" (?), unless you see them do it, how are you going to handle it? If your counts are 100% spot on and you find that there is 5 extra T100 chips at one table, what are you going to do? Who do you take the chips from to get things back to even?
 

MaxB

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What I'm saying is if you're gaming commission approved, does that mean you can do business with GPI? You know, like the 4,000 chips you need to run the tournament plus the secondary and tertiary sets that never see play but your uh, friends, are testing for durability? ;)

I wish. But we are classified as small part time charity event. I can do up to 4 times per year without getting into the big league (and paying a ton). I think I have to pay around 3-4% of the intake (poker only, not the beer tickets as those as handled by the bar as income) plus tourney director license, plus I pay for the dealers to be licensed, plus all of us get background checks.
 

DJ Mack

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Even if you uncover someone "going north" (?), unless you see them do it, how are you going to handle it? If your counts are 100% spot on and you find that there is 5 extra T100 chips at one table, what are you going to do? Who do you take the chips from to get things back to even?
(Insert random scene from Casino where Ace handles another troublemaker)
 

MaxB

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Even if you uncover someone "going north" (?), unless you see them do it, how are you going to handle it? If your counts are 100% spot on and you find that there is 5 extra T100 chips at one table, what are you going to do? Who do you take the chips from to get things back to even?

Gaming commission has rules for that which will be provided. I don't have to worry about writing them. My job is to always have chip counts for each table.
 

DJ Mack

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Gaming commission has rules for that which will be provided. I don't have to worry about writing them. My job is to always have chip counts for each table.
As I'm sure @dennis63 can relate, professional pit bosses have to keep track of a lot more for a similar number of tables. If you only have to know the number of checks on a given table at a time that's simple enough with a clipboard. At least you're not tasked with monitoring 6-7 bettors per table. So it's doable, if obnoxious. The trick will probably be keeping multiple things from happening at once. That is, don't try to re-balance tables while you're settling a rules dispute.
 

MaxB

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The problem is not enforcing the rules or keeping the game going....it's watching everyone play,have a good time and drinking fresh beer while I walk around sober counting stupid chips and reseating people :confused:

....though its for charity, so I can't complain
 
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