Hate towards ppl that host raked games (2 Viewers)

upNdown

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You and I have very different perspectives.

I will join in on the hate, hell yes!
Rake is like insurance at a casino. It insures a fair game because of gaming regulations and it insures you’re not getting robbed because of security.
Paying rake in a home game just insures that you’re a sucker.
No, after what reading what other people have written, I get it. If it’s a juicy underground game that’s extending credit to fish, yeah a rake makes sense. That’s just out of my league - I play with 25 cent chips.
 

Carnth

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I understand raked games in a casino. It's a business, it's how they make money.

I thought home games were supposed to be for getting together with friends or making new friends. If a host is taking a rake, then are they trying to run a business?

I understand businesses trying to make back their money after putting out cash for food, equipment, etc. But at a home game? I think hosts should expect that they are hosting a game to have a good time, and then be pleasantly surprised if they receive any tips from the players. Or maybe the players help bring beer/food etc.

I think if a home-game host is trying to make money (like a casino/business) then maybe they are doing it wrong.
 

ktran

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greenchip

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That’s BS, rake for home games??? Like everyone is saying, it’ll be a business, so legally speaking they need a license to operate else it’s shady.

If they have a rake, I’d not cash some of their chips and bring home, or else I won’t play. Especially if they have a good fractional that can be sold for 5 bucks each. If they’re making money off players, why not make money off them by selling their chips? If they have good dealers and massage therapist who would massage me when I’m playing then sure, else rake is just BS in home games.
 

CrazyEddie

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Seen some good games with host purely doing it for the love of the game but often is just pure business and host that will nagging you to come play daily.
If they're doing it for the love of the game they won't charge a rake. If they're charging a rake then it's just pure business, no matter what they say.

No exceptions.

If they say otherwise they're just making happy-sounding mouth noises to get you to play.
 

bergs

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If they're doing it for the love of the game they won't charge a rake. If they're charging a rake then it's just pure business, no matter what they say.

No exceptions.

If they say otherwise they're just making happy-sounding mouth noises to get you to play.
I’ve seen games where the host charges take and it just barely covers the food and drinks they make available. I’ve also seen games where the dedicated dealer takes the rake as comp and nothing goes to the house. There are always exceptions.
 

doublebooyah85

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If they're doing it for the love of the game they won't charge a rake. If they're charging a rake then it's just pure business, no matter what they say.

No exceptions.

If they say otherwise they're just making happy-sounding mouth noises to get you to play.
This is perplexing. Host has 20 people over for a tournament. 5 Pizzas + a dealer. Does it 20X a year? He shouldn't recovery any money bc he loves poker? To cover food/drinks/dealer?
 

CrazyEddie

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I was under the assumption that raked home games are illegal across US and Canada.
It varies by jurisdiction but generally speaking, yes, they're illegal everywhere. That doesn't mean they aren't common, as I've learned from other posts by other PCF members.
 

CrazyEddie

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Felt a bit under-cover-coppy to me.
"How do you do, fellow poker players!"
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be sure to complain about the high rake in the home games you play in, also where are you located and can I get an invite so me and my friends can drop by sometime, or you could just post the name and address of the host okay thanks
 

Carnth

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I always thought of going to play poker at a friend's house as more of a social gathering, with some good games.

If a friend wants to have a dinner party and invites people to talk while eating, having fun, would it be ok to charge them for the food?
("You ate the steak I cooked you, so that's going to be $25 please")

Wether you are inviting people over for dinner, or to watch a movie in your awesome home theatre room, or to play poker on your $10000 custom solid oak poker table with Nevada Club chips, I don't think you should charge your guests in any of these circumstances.

Entertaining guests can be an expensive hobby. If you choose to blow your money on poker chips, I don't think that gives you the right to charge your friends because of your hobby. If you want to just play poker, you can get a deck of cards from the dollar store and get rolls of quarters.

The only time I think it would be appropriate to charge anything, is if you agree ahead of time to hire a professional dealer. Then, everyone can agree on a flat rate, or percentage rake with a low cap and no surprises.
 

CrazyEddie

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This is perplexing. Host has 20 people over for a tournament. 5 Pizzas + a dealer. Does it 20X a year? He shouldn't recovery any money bc he loves poker? To cover food/drinks/dealer?
I suppose some hosts cover their modest hospitality costs with a modest rake, but I don't think those are the types of games that the OP was complaining about - games where some players are in debt to the house for years and where the house sometimes returns their rake to keep them coming back. Those games aren't being run for the love of poker.
 

buzzmonkey

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If I run a game there's no rake. If a person offers to tip I'll politely decline. If they insist then I may take them up on it. Always voluntary and NEVER expected. I treat poker games like I'd treat hosting a party. I'm inviting, I'm providing.
 

doublebooyah85

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I suppose some hosts cover their modest hospitality costs with a modest rake, but I don't think those are the types of games that the OP was complaining about - games where some players are in debt to the house for years and where the house sometimes returns their rake to keep them coming back. Those games aren't being run for the love of poker.
Yeah fair enough. Looking back at OP, that’s exactly what you are referring to. The games with $5-$10 rake a hand and lines are credit are essentially illegal cardroom/casinos.
 

upNdown

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This is perplexing. Host has 20 people over for a tournament. 5 Pizzas + a dealer. Does it 20X a year? He shouldn't recovery any money bc he loves poker? To cover food/drinks/dealer?
I don’t think he should. If he wants to go around collecting money for pizza, that’s fine - he won’t have to collect from me, because I don’t need any pizza. And I bring my own drinks - that’s customary around here.

I’m not calling anybody a villain, and customs certainly vary and adults are capable of choosing whether they want to play in a raked game or not, but I think we’re just making unnecessary leaps here.
“Because he loves poker?” I love poker too. So once or twice a month, I’ll HOST (that word seems to mean different things to some of us) 6-8 people to come play cards at my house. Nobody needs to host 20 people. Who has 20 friends over regularly? If you want to “host” 20 people regularly, in my mind, you’re running a business. Whether it’s an underground poker game or an after hours bar - that’s not normal socializing. And if you have the financial wherewithal to do it, lucky you. If not, sure, go ahead and charge your “guests.” But you’re running a business.
 

Eloe2000

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I think a distinction should be made between “home games” and “private games”. A lot of us here host friendly home games intended for sport, socialization, and relaxation. Those shouldn’t be raked and that is why I think a lot of people here or elsewhere respond negatively to the idea of a raked game. Whereas a “private game” is essentially just a non-formalized casino or gambling game where there is a real work that goes into the setting up, execution, and maintenance of the game.
 

Eloe2000

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You have 20+ friends hanging out in your home on a regular basis?

I could easily max out weekly 2 full ring games. But I am in a larger city and have been playing home and corporate games for a decade here where we have all nurtured the group and tried to recruit others. We play 9 handed weekly religiously and the waiting list is so long that only rarely do the backups get called and I forget who the ones are just a couple deep. So far I have only ever wanted to host single table, but when we finish our patio-indoor/outdoor construction I am probably going to start bimonthly two table tourneys and I know we will have a pretty tight list of the 18 to play each time consistently.
 

upNdown

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I could easily max out weekly 2 full ring games. But I am in a larger city and have been playing home and corporate games for a decade here where we have all nurtured the group and tried to recruit others. We play 9 handed weekly religiously and the waiting list is so long that only rarely do the backups get called and I forget who the ones are just a couple deep. So far I have only ever wanted to host single table, but when we finish our patio-indoor/outdoor construction I am probably going to start bimonthly two table tourneys and I know we will have a pretty tight list of the 18 to play each time consistently.
Yeah I realize there are plenty of people around here who host multi-table regularly. And I guess I’m jealous. Or maybe not. It just seems like a daunting task to me. But that’s kind of not really the point I was trying to make.

I assert that having 20 people to your house on a regular basis isn’t a normal thing for most people. Yes, you might do it a couple times a year for a holiday party or special occasion or whatever. But just for your typical weekend get-togethers or couples’ game nights or whatever - how many people have 20 friends in their house, together all at once, on a regular basis?

I’m saying that’s not a normal thing. And if you have to collect money from your guests to pull it off, then you’re doing something closer to a business than a game night.
But tell me if I’m wrong.
 

doublebooyah85

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Yeah I realize there are plenty of people around here who host multi-table regularly. And I guess I’m jealous. Or maybe not. It just seems like a daunting task to me. But that’s kind of not really the point I was trying to make.

I assert that having 20 people to your house on a regular basis isn’t a normal thing for most people. Yes, you might do it a couple times a year for a holiday party or special occasion or whatever. But just for your typical weekend get-togethers or couples’ game nights or whatever - how many people have 20 friends in their house, together all at once, on a regular basis?

I’m saying that’s not a normal thing. And if you have to collect money from your guests to pull it off, then you’re doing something closer to a business than a game night.
But tell me if I’m wrong.
Yeah 20 friends over is not uncommon. 8-10 couples for a social event, or 10-30 friends for poker. And it's not a business, it would still be a losing proposition if you asked for $5-$10 for the food and dealers lol. That's a non-profit LOL. (And that doesn't include my wife's side of the family, Greeks, easily 20+!)

But to @Eloe2000's point and the original OP, I believe they are more talking about private games with a $5 rake per hand and lines of credit. (I mistakenly confused it with a friendly game) Big Rake. Big lines of credit...definitely a no-no.

But I've been to those games as well, and everyone seems to be happy. So to each their own. Depends how good the food and security is LOL. Not everyone has a cardroom/casino within 15 minutes.
 

Eloe2000

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Yeah I realize there are plenty of people around here who host multi-table regularly. And I guess I’m jealous. Or maybe not. It just seems like a daunting task to me. But that’s kind of not really the point I was trying to make.

I assert that having 20 people to your house on a regular basis isn’t a normal thing for most people. Yes, you might do it a couple times a year for a holiday party or special occasion or whatever. But just for your typical weekend get-togethers or couples’ game nights or whatever - how many people have 20 friends in their house, together all at once, on a regular basis?

I’m saying that’s not a normal thing. And if you have to collect money from your guests to pull it off, then you’re doing something closer to a business than a game night.
But tell me if I’m wrong.

Ah, fair enough. But I think the change in frequency of the game changes the expectations around the production value. There isn’t really an expectation for a weekly game with all of the bells and whistles as a semi-annual blown out.

I do host a weekly 6hr game. We play religiously ever single week. I provide the space, the table and chips, a cooler/fridge full of ice, a couple beers in the cooler, I put a couple bottles of whiskey etc. But it is generally a BYO drinks/food situation. And I actually usually end up with more beers and whiskey than I put out to start with. Maybe 30min it’s of setup and 15min of breakdown. When we get hungry either we take turns paying for the pizza or we split the delivery bill. These guys wouldn’t expect a full spread for a weekly game. Most of us participate in that mo they shit show tournament at my office building and because it’s monthly they hook it up with bbq and many bottles of wine. A couple times per year I will do a bigger weekend game where we do a full cookout. But I think the production value of the event is directly correlated to the frequency and I think peoples’ expectations naturally align with that.

So I think the people who just play or host big events several times per year think something along the lines of “oh I can’t imagine hosting this every week” just haven’t played weekly and can’t appreciate the lower expectations all around.
 
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Schmendr1ck

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“Because he loves poker?” I love poker too. So once or twice a month, I’ll HOST (that word seems to mean different things to some of us) 6-8 people to come play cards at my house. Nobody needs to host 20 people. Who has 20 friends over regularly? If you want to “host” 20 people regularly, in my mind, you’re running a business. Whether it’s an underground poker game or an after hours bar - that’s not normal socializing. And if you have the financial wherewithal to do it, lucky you. If not, sure, go ahead and charge your “guests.” But you’re running a business.
When my weekly NLHE tourney group was larger, we would have 20-25 players every single Tuesday night. Zero rake, because it was a super casual $10 tourney and the idea of a rake would have been laughed at by everyone including the host.

This was either a business or abnormal socialization?

Wow.
 

upNdown

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When my weekly NLHE tourney group was larger, we would have 20-25 players every single Tuesday night. Zero rake, because it was a super casual $10 tourney and the idea of a rake would have been laughed at by everyone including the host.

This was either a business or abnormal socialization?

Wow.
I dunno man, maybe I’m just sheltered. Outside of the context of multi-table poker a weekly gathering of 20-25 people, in your house, does seem abnormal to me. But yeah, maybe I’m wrong.
 

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