Hand Review: Flopping trip 9's and splitting the pot (1 Viewer)

[JMC9389]

I'm not sure I could have done anything differently here, but I figured I'd ask the experts.

Background: 6 handed 0.10/0.20 game with half of the players that are pretty nitty OMC's and the other half that employ basic strategy well.

I'm UTG +1 with 2nd largest stack on the table and get dealt . I call at 0.20 thinking I have a decent hand to play but not enough so to raise in early position. Next two players fold. SB calls, BB raises to 0.50. UTG folds, I call, SB calls, so it's just me, SB, and BB.

Flop comes out .

I'm thinking "great, I can slow play low trips and take the other two guys for a decent pot!" I check. Checks around the table.

Turn comes

I bet half pot after SB and BB check, because I'm afraid someone has an ace. SB folds and BB calls.

River comes

BB checks and I check thinking I'm had. We end up splitting the pot.

The only mistake I think I made is not raising more after the turn to buy the pot. The whole table busted out laughing when the third ace came out on the river. Since BB only called my turn bet, I pretty safely assumed that he didn't have an ace or 9. The river? Well, I was speechless.

How could I have played this differently?

 

[Kain8]

To channel my poker subreddit sentiments... fold preflop.

 

[Saoliver]

Missed a bet on the flop. Make draws pay. Any A will call you. Don’t be scared.

 

[AWenger]

I'm thinking "great, I can slow play low trips and take the other two guys for a decent pot!" I check. Checks around the table.

How could I have played this differently?

Sometimes the key to winning a big pot is by building a big pot early, and betting a normal to larger size bet on a flop like this, especially against multiple opponents, as it's more likely one of multiple opponents would hit a piece of this. Yes, you might get 2 folds on the flop if your opponents have air, but you're dominating all other Ax hands and 9x hands other than A9.

 

[Perthmike]

Fold pre

 

[JMC9389]

Sometimes the key to winning a big pot is by building a big pot early, and betting a normal to larger size bet on a flop like this, especially against multiple opponents, as it's more likely one of multiple opponents would hit a piece of this. Yes, you might get 2 folds on the flop if your opponents have air, but you're dominating all other Ax hands and 9x hands other than A9.

That is something I admit is a weakness in my game. I usually start cash games aggressive and play more hands early on in a wider range. When I have a nice stack built up, I tend to play nittier, play a smaller range, and don't bet as aggressively than if I have a smaller stack. It's a lot of the reason why I usually almost always end up in the black, but never step on the throats of my competition and cash out for 4-6x more than what I buy in for. Then again, I host mostly, and want to keep my players coming back.

Missed a bet on the flop. Make draws pay. Any A will call you. Don’t be scared.

When I hit a big flop, I play with the principle of trying to get potentially weaker hands than mine to call. While I didn't exactly have the nuts, I had the second best possible hand, with only pocket rockets being able to beat me post flop. How much would you raise with that flop in early position? I feel like I may have put in a bet if I was on the button or later, but by checking the flop there, I was hoping to slow play or get someone to bet so I could raise them. Neither worked out.

 

[Saoliver]

A lot of weaker hand will call a flop bet, including any A and decent flush draws.

If they check to you, they also might just assume that it was a position bet and call with modest hands. The strength of your hand is really disguised here. I would bet half the pot on the flop.

 

[JMC9389]

A lot of weaker hand will call a flop bet, including any A and decent flush draws.

If they check to you, they also might just assume that it was a position bet and call with modest hands. The strength of your hand is really disguised here. I would bet half the pot on the flop.

That's my thought as well. And I think I would have bet about half pot if I was in later position.

 

[Saoliver]

You checked the flop with position on the blinds. Should have bet.

 

[JMC9389]

You checked the flop with position on the blinds. Should have bet.

I should have added that the two remaining players in the hand I know to be on the nittier side. If I bet half pot in early position, I think both would have folded.

Edit: I'm a moron. I was betting last post flop. I should have raised. This hand was about a month ago, I'm not remembering it too well. I definitely donked it and should have bet post flop in the latest position post flop.

 

[JMC9389]

Yep, close it up. I should have bet post flop in late position. In my defense, I was four beers deep here

 

[BGinGA]

No expert, but:

• Fold pre-flop
• Bet flop
• Be thankful you didn't lose to quad aces (or a better full house)

 

[DrStrange]

Fold preflop. K9o is nothing but trouble especially in not so good position. It is even worse at a table filled with old man, coffee and good players. Maybe if Hero were in position to steal blinds - and at a really tight table maybe that is an important way to make money.

I have doubts about Hero's table read. 3 of 6 players are involved in a raised pot. I am wondering what BB held to be almost min raising given how the action & results went.

Flop is a bet. Hero should be betting many times with much weaker hands given the two checks. On a lucky day Hero will trap someone with a worse "nine" but that can't happen without leading off with a bet. Trapping is not the way to make a big win.

Turn bet is fine, Hero is expecting folds. I prefer a check turn, check/call river line.

The river is gross - just a horrible run out.

Now lets try to figure out BB's hand.
* near min-raise preflop. So small he should expect two calls.
* checks flop on a flop that favors a c-bet.
* check/calls turn on a double paired board.
* checks gross river but doesn't have a winner.

We know BB didn't have Ax nor did he have a big pair since BB didn't claim the pot.

So what might he have had? A weaker nine makes some sense except for the preflop raise.
A smaller pair, 88 or less - but that would be quite ambitious to call a bet facing a double paired board there-by playing a naked 8 as the kicker to AA/99
Maybe BB held KQ or so and was calling with the king kicker?

Hero can learn something by seeing BB's showdown. On the other hand, Hero is giving up a pile of information when his hand shows down as well. I'd be thrilled to be an uninvolved player at the table and see this showdown.

DrStrange

 

[Eriks]

Preflop:

As a basic strategy, you should never open limp. Either raise or fold. Raising allows you to:

-take control in the hand with the betting lead.
-start building the pot with your good hands.
-have a chance to just pick up the blinds.
-narrow down the ranges of your opponents.

K9o is simply not good enough to play here. You’ll find plenty of trouble on Kxx boards where other players will typically hold KT or better when money start going in.

9xx boards aren’t as bad as other nines are more likely to be connecting ones such as J9s/T9s/98s but there’s still that A9s to worry about. 9 will also more rarely be the highest card on the board.

Also, one of K9’s best flops, QJT, would be an absolute disaster when you’re up against AK

I would consider playing K9s with a raise from the button if folded to me, but here I fold 100% of the time. I guess as played you could make a case for calling the small raise from the BB knowing it will likely be a 3-way pot with you in position but I wouldn’t be thrilled about it.

I would interpret BB small raise from oop as a strong hand (big pairs/AK/AQ/AJ, possible KQ) wanting to get action and as such be very careful moving forward.

Flop:

Sb checks to raiser, who in turn checks a flop that certainly favors his range. He is probably betting any Ax here so there is some merit to checking behind. I would still bet though as SB can have plenty of Axs and flush draws, not mention smaller 9s and I don’t think BB will fold KK-TT to a single bet if SB gets out of the way.

And generally, you need to think about more than your actual hand. Lets say you had nothing and it checks to you, you’ll want to bet and take it down. If you never bet in these situations when you have a hand your range will be very weighted towards having nothing when you do bet.

Turn:

You missed the flop bet and they check to again. I would rule out either of them having an A at this point. I would bet small to target K-highs and TT-KK.

River:

Not a whole lot to do. No point in betting. Chops won’t fold and TT-KK now beats you.

This turned out long. Good luck at the tables!

 

[JMC9389]

Thank you all for your very detailed responses.

@DrStrange , luckily the villian at showdown agreed to split the pot without showing any cards on either end. I asked "do you have a hand better than what's on the board"? He said no and neither did I, and we agreed to chop without showing. I didn't want to show that I tried to slow play flopped trips and a full house on the turn. This was important as I didn't want to give away that information (even if it's a game among friends). My guess though is that I have BB read as one of the nittier players at the table. @Eriks read was exactly mine. If he's raising in late position and then checked the flop, I have him ranged at KK, KQ suited, QQ, QJ suited, JJ, JT suited, or TT. I really don't think he'd raise with much more than pocket 10's. A 50 cent call before the flop was roughly 1/100 of my stack. I was sitting with about $50 in chips on my $20 buy in. Even with K9 off suited, four beers in I was thinking "sure, why not"?

If I'm playing at the casino, I'm not sure I'd play that kind of hand in early position. For the purposes of my microstakes home game, I tend to play more hands so I appear to have a wider range and thusly play more aggressively. However, when I'm sitting at the table with top stack or second best, my play admittedly suffers in the sense that I play some hands more passively than I should, i.e. playing more hands than I should, not betting as aggressively when I have a hand, etc.

On the turn, perhaps the only think I could have done differently when it checked around to me was bet 3/4 or full pot, but at the time, I was still concerned about a check/raise from BB in the event he had an ace. In which case, I just bet full pot to fold. Hence betting only half pot in the event of a check/raise. BB's call confused me. At that point I pretty much knew he had kings or KQ. I didn't really need him to show at showdown for me to come to that conclusion, opting instead to protect my information.

In summary:

In a game against strangers at higher stakes, folding pre is likely not a bad play.

Should have bet about half pot off of the flop in late position

If I got a caller or two after the flop, I'd bet 3/4 to full pot on the turn. I doubt that if either remaining player had an ace, that they'd check/raise me after the flop or after the turn.

River runout was gross and screwed me. Nothing really to do there. That being said, I think I could have extracted more value after the flop.

 

[Gobbs]

Just to add on:

Unlike many, I don’t have a problem with you playing K9o UTG+1 in a six-handed game. I would probably fold it, and with another player or two, you should definitely fold it, but it’s OK to play it occasionally. I don’t like limping with it, though. If you’re going to play it pre-flop, play it like you got the goods and raise.

Like most, I hate the check on the flop, especially when closing action. If you were first to act with aggressive players behind you, checking is OK, but in position, bet it. A modest bet is going to get calls from modest hands and make heart draws pay a price to see another card.

 

[BGinGA]

No collusion no-shows allowed at showdown at my game. Must show all hole cards to win any portion of the pot.

 

[JMC9389]

No collusion no-shows allowed at showdown at my game. Must show all hole cards to win any portion of the pot.

Usually I agree with that. For a hand with that absurd of a run out with only two left in the hand, no one had any problem with it.

 

[DrStrange]

It is often hard to tell if anyone is objecting to these types of agreements. I am rarely going to speak up even though I absolutely object. 1) I don't want to provoke the host over the issue, 2) I don't want to slow down the game, 3) I don't want to "tap the glass" that we should be paying attention to tabled hands.

I also feel that the weakest players often times misread their hands and would benefit from tabling a hand for us all to read. This happens more times than you would expect.

Also these types of side agreements tend to bleed over into other similar situations - one card showdowns, verbal declarations without showdown, flashing a winner to the loser then mucking etc. This is 10x bigger problem if the house has a showdown requirement like BG's game. It isn't the end of the world, but the door is opened up enough to allow bigger problems and angle-shoots to fester.

And for sure we can't be doing this when the host is in the hand if there are rules prohibiting 'no show' arrangements.

DrStrange

 

[Marius L]

I don't mind playing k9o in a 6max game with half of the players being nitty OMC. Fold is also OK I guess.

As played pre I would:

Bet flop. Hope SB or BB had an a or a 9. If they do they will certainly call at least one or two streets, and maybe you can get three full streets of value on a good run out. If they do not have an A or 9 and both just folds, that's fine too, as you probably wouldn't get any more value by slow playing the hand anyways. Nitty OMC as you describe them don't seem very likely to bluff if they miss everything, and there are not many turns/rivers that is good enough for them to value bet and still be worse than your hand.

If you bet the flop and get called I would slow down a lot and try to get to showdown cheaply when the turn is another A.

As played when checking back the flop I would bet the turn.

River is a bad card obviously, and checking back is ok. You could also bet again when checked to as you opponent doesn't seem very strong and might fold a hand that would split with you.


As for the deal of splitting the pot without showing cards I think it is totally fine. In a cash game this is no big deal. I wouldn't allow it in a tournament though.

 

[Kidsthesedays]

Fold pre, why would you bet turn if you're afraid someone has an ace, bigger boat that you?

 

[bhofeld]

Don't be afraid of someone having an Ace after it goes check check on the turn.
1/2 pot bet is reasonable however because it could keep flush draws in.

Slowplaying your 9 would be a good idea from early position but after two checks you want to charge flush draws, pocket pairs, and weak Aces.