GOCC vs PGI

Tommy

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I been playing with my GOCC samples and the PCF/PGI chips.

gocc_pgi.jpg

The GOCC chips are smoother and are a bit slippery when stacked. On the other hand, the PGI chips are less smooth and stack better IMO. Almost like new Paulsons. Definitely not made from the same blanks. The text on the GOCC chips is sharper, more crisp. (could just be the fonts) I would like to get more GOCC chips to play with to see how the smoothness effects stacking barrels.

That's all I got. :)
 

CdnBeerLover

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Hmmm...the only PGI chips I have are the Yaks, which are very similar to the GOCC chips. I didn't find them significantly smoother. Both had more texture than the Sunfly samples I have.

You'll have to send me enough of those PGI/PCF chips to shuffle so that I can make a proper comparison. :D
 
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Tommy

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Hmmm...the only PGI chips I have are the Yaks, which are very similar to the GOCC chips. I didn't find them significantly smoother. Both had more texture than the Sunfly samples I have.

You'll have to send me enough of those PGI/PCF chips to shuffle so that I can make a proper comparison. :D

LOL, I already mailed it. It's very noticeable. If I take 4-5 PCF chips, hold them together tight and try twisting them there is much more resistance/friction then with the GOCC samples. Maybe it has to do with the GOCC have full color printing on them. :confused:
 

tommythecat

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IIRC PGI offers both textured and non-textured blanks. I wonder if the non-textured PGI chips feel the same as the GOCC. I am not sure if GOCC makes a textured blank.
 

Mental Nomad

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In dye sub printing, the dye is sublimated by heat. That is, it turns to a gas.

The gaseous dye is supposed to enter tiny pores in the "ceramic" and provide deeply saturated color. Unlike a wet-applied dye, I think it should not change the texture all that much.

I could be wrong about the impact on texture, but if I'm right, it implies that GOCC just used a slicker blank than PGI, and the printing made no difference.

If I'm wrong, maybe the blanks are similar, and the dye made it slicker... can you feel where the print begins and ends on the PGI chip? If you slide your finger across, even if there's not ridge, you should be able to feel where the print is by the slickness, if there's actually a difference...

I have several sample sets in the air, or I'd be playing, myself.
 

Tommy

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IIRC PGI offers both textured and non-textured blanks. I wonder if the non-textured PGI chips feel the same as the GOCC. I am not sure if GOCC makes a textured blank.

That would make sense then. I probably have the textured. That is the way to go then.

If I'm wrong, maybe the blanks are similar, and the dye made it slicker... can you feel where the print begins and ends on the PGI chip? If you slide your finger across, even if there's not ridge, you should be able to feel where the print is by the slickness, if there's actually a difference...

Cannot feel the printing. Must be a textured blank. I like it!
 

pltrgyst

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....The GOCC chips are smoother and are a bit slippery when stacked. On the other hand, the PGI chips are less smooth and stack better IMO.

Maximum approval received twice from the Department of Redundancy Department! :cool:

-- Larry

Our slogan: "On the other hand, we have four fingers and a thumb."

-- Larry
 

Mr Tree

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Maximum approval received twice from the Department of Redundancy Department! :cool:

-- Larry

Our slogan: "On the other hand, we have four fingers and a thumb."

-- Larry

Wow,

Larry is the head chief top dog in charge of things over there too.
 

BGinGA

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Here's how I understand it:

PGI offers at least two different ceramic blanks (possibly three) -- those made using Chipco equipment, and blanks produced by Sun-Fly. The Chipco blanks (custom Yaks) will look/feel/sound pretty close to real Chipco chips, and probably GOCC chips, too. The Sun-Fly blanks have more texture, and print quality will typically not be as sharp. There may be a third blank option, as well -- since Joe/PGI always stated he had two different blanks (his own plus Sun-Fly) long before they purchased the old Chipco equipment. For the record, the non-custom Yak denominations are real Chipco chips, produced by Chipco on Chipco equipment before it was sold to PGI.

Elsewhere, pretty sure that Sal/OWPS uses Sun-Fly blanks. And Gene/ABC has his own proprietary ceramic blank, which features a more squarish edge. ABC also has a very good reputation for print quality.


One of these days, I'm going to actually compare apples to apples, and have the exact same artwork submitted to all five vendors (PGI, GOCC, OWPS, ABC, Sun-Fly) for production on all available/offered blanks. Then we'll really see what's what regarding sound, feel, uniformity, stackability, and print quality.
 

Don Clay

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and once the comparison's done, could a GB happen with the "best" one ?
 

Tommy

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The print quality different is just with the text and that could be because of the font that I am using.
 

Mental Nomad

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The texture also affects the look; print on a surface that isn't perfectly flat will have a "soft" look on fine detail. This is why photos are printed on glossy.

So, if the texture comes solely from the blanks, and dye-sub does not change the slipperiness, we're down to this trade-off:

More textured blank: less slippery stacks, but softer-looking print
Less textured blank: slipperier stacks, but sharper print
 

BGinGA

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The texture also affects the look; print on a surface that isn't perfectly flat will have a "soft" look on fine detail. This is why photos are printed on glossy.

So, if the texture comes solely from the blanks, and dye-sub does not change the slipperiness, we're down to this trade-off:

More textured blank: less slippery stacks, but softer-looking print
Less textured blank: slipperier stacks, but sharper print

^^ This is true for laminated labels,, as well (glossy vs textured).


Do ABC and OWPS fit in to the discussion?

Yes, see below.

Here's how I understand it:

PGI offers at least two different ceramic blanks (possibly three) -- those made using Chipco equipment, and blanks produced by Sun-Fly. The Chipco blanks (custom Yaks) will look/feel/sound pretty close to real Chipco chips, and probably GOCC chips, too. The Sun-Fly blanks have more texture, and print quality will typically not be as sharp. There may be a third blank option, as well -- since Joe/PGI always stated he had two different blanks (his own plus Sun-Fly) long before they purchased the old Chipco equipment. For the record, the non-custom Yak denominations are real Chipco chips, produced by Chipco on Chipco equipment before it was sold to PGI.

Elsewhere, pretty sure that Sal/OWPS uses Sun-Fly blanks. And Gene/ABC has his own proprietary ceramic blank, which features a more squarish edge. ABC also has a very good reputation for print quality.


One of these days, I'm going to actually compare apples to apples, and have the exact same artwork submitted to all five vendors (PGI, GOCC, OWPS, ABC, Sun-Fly) for production on all available/offered blanks. Then we'll really see what's what regarding sound, feel, uniformity, stackability, and print quality.
 
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What about classic poker chips. I have a sample from them and working on a sample from gocc. Have the royal yaks as well as the Nevada jacks from abc.
 

jbutler

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What about classic poker chips. I have a sample from them and working on a sample from gocc. Have the royal yaks as well as the Nevada jacks from abc.

i also got samples from CPC of their 39mm and 43mm ceramics as well as their 39mm hybrid chip. all very good quality imo.

i have a long-planned ceramic project to get off my ass and make some decisions on. once i have a final design, i'll be sending off to all the aforementioned (CPC, PGI, ABC, old west, GOCC) for printed samples and i'll start a new thread for the comparison when i get them all back.

the thing that turns me off from non-chipco-style blanks is the glossy rolling edge. it just looks wrong to me to have a matte finish chip face and a glossy edge.
 
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i also got samples from CPC of their 39mm and 43mm ceramics as well as their 39mm hybrid chip. all very good quality imo.

i have a long-planned ceramic project to get off my ass and make some decisions on. once i have a final design, i'll be sending off to all the aforementioned (CPC, PGI, ABC, old west, GOCC) for printed samples and i'll start a new thread for the comparison when i get them all back.

the thing that turns me off from non-chipco-style blanks is the glossy rolling edge. it just looks wrong to me to have a matte finish chip face and a glossy edge.

Getting a designer for my project and will do the same. Let's compare notes
 

CdnBeerLover

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Ok, I decided to check my PGI Yaks (non-custom and custom), GOCC Aviator Club, Casino Aztar (Chipco), and Seaside and Card Wars chips (Sunfly). I'll check the ABC chips I have later and append to the post.

My thoughts
- The GOCC have the least texture. However, they feel more substantial than the Sunfly's, and I think the overall feel is excellent.
- ABCGiftsAndAwards have slightly more texture than GOCC. They feel more substantial than the Sunfly's, which I think is due to the squareness of the edge. Other chips have a slightly rounded edge, and and easier to shuffle than these. Art is excellent.
- The Sunfly's have more texture than the GOCC chips. However, they also feel slightly thinner, lighter, or both. I don't have an accurate scale, but I do have a micrometer, so I'll do some measurements.
- The PGI / Chipco Yak non-customs have more texture than the Sunfly chips, but otherwise feel like the GOCC's.
- The Chipco chips and the custom Yaks feel identical, have more texture than the non-custom Yaks, and are a bit thicker in 20-chip stacks.

One additional note: I have a small stack of custom Yaks (5x25c and 5x$1) that I shuffle almost daily in my home office. They feel slightly smoother than the GOCC's, which are not shuffled as much (I do shuffle them quite a bit, though...). So the texture on the PGI custom Yaks does become smoother over time.

Overall: the PGI/Chipco / GOCC chips are my preferred ceramic chips, just because I prefer the feel (size/weight). While the difference between those chips with respect to texture is noticable at first, I think they approach each other over time. I also think the printing looks better on those chips than on the Sunfly's I have.

Note that none of the above is meant to reflect badly on any of the vendors involved. All of my transactions have been top notch, and I wouldn't hesitate to purchase a set from any of them.

- - - - - - - - - Updated - - - - - - - - -

i also got samples from CPC of their 39mm and 43mm ceramics as well as their 39mm hybrid chip. all very good quality imo.

i have a long-planned ceramic project to get off my ass and make some decisions on. once i have a final design, i'll be sending off to all the aforementioned (CPC, PGI, ABC, old west, GOCC) for printed samples and i'll start a new thread for the comparison when i get them all back.

the thing that turns me off from non-chipco-style blanks is the glossy rolling edge. it just looks wrong to me to have a matte finish chip face and a glossy edge.

Looking forward to this.
 
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Mr. Cheese

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I might as well chime in too. Over the course of the last year or so I've had about 1400 custom PGI ceramic chips (Royal Yaks) in addition to 600 or so of the original chipco Royal Yaks. I also have a sample set of the GOCC chips and a set of the Aviator Club chips from GOCC as well. Between the two I think they are both excellent options and I think that the GOCC are a little smoother which makes the print a little crisper vs the PGI Yaks. That being said I like the PGI Yaks for their texture because they stack amazingly well. At my games it wasn't uncommon for people to make stacks 30-40 chips high. If you want the crispest image you can get the GOCC might be the best option but for feel its a personal decision and I think the feel of the PGI was spot on.

Not to leave out the other vendors I have gotten some plaques from OWPS and those had an excellent feel and print quality. You really can't go wrong with any of those vendors in my humble opinion.
 

jbutler

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i also got samples from CPC of their 39mm and 43mm ceramics as well as their 39mm hybrid chip. all very good quality imo.

i have a long-planned ceramic project to get off my ass and make some decisions on. once i have a final design, i'll be sending off to all the aforementioned (CPC, PGI, ABC, old west, GOCC) for printed samples and i'll start a new thread for the comparison when i get them all back.

the thing that turns me off from non-chipco-style blanks is the glossy rolling edge. it just looks wrong to me to have a matte finish chip face and a glossy edge.

Getting a designer for my project and will do the same. Let's compare notes

after spending some more time with all versions of the CPC ceramics (39mm regular, 43mm regular, 39mm hybrid), GOCC, and PGI Chipco-style ceramics, i don't think i'll be going through the above process after all. i'm pretty much decided on the Chipco-style, so it will be between PGI and GOCC.

i know that PGI currently has the cheapest price on that type of blank, but i'll probably shoot an email over to GOCC before i order to see if they want to compete with the price. i'll be ordering between 1500 and 2000, so i think there's a chance they might want to negotiate. if not, no hard feelings.

there is still a chance i could do another set entirely on the CPC hybrid chip. i love that chip. PGI is the only other company who produces a hybrid (i believe the sunfly version of a hybrid). i've handled them and i definitely prefer the CPC version, so no need to do any further comparison for that possible order either.

would still like to see a comparison of print quality among all the manufacturers, but for me, once print quality is above a minimum standard (and certainly all of the above meet that standard for me), feel is much more important than further print quality refinements.
 
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Jbutler, If you go hybrid you will almost have to have edge spots correct? I do like that chip just not sure which way to go yet. I have GOCC samples on the way.
 

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I asked GOCC for a quote for a 1000-piece set, and the price came in pretty close to a dollar a piece, which I thought was pretty pricey for ceramics. Am I crazy or does PGI come in quite a bit cheaper? What surprised me was that their Playinum Series, which appears to be a hybrid with solid color ceramic was even more expensive.
 

jbutler

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I asked GOCC for a quote for a 1000-piece set, and the price came in pretty close to a dollar a piece, which I thought was pretty pricey for ceramics. Am I crazy or does PGI come in quite a bit cheaper? What surprised me was that their Playinum Series, which appears to be a hybrid with solid color ceramic was even more expensive.

Yeah I was quoted .85/each by GOCC for a 1500-2000 piece order. Joe at PGI quoted me .68/each. So far as I can tell, the blank is basically identical in feel, so I guess it comes down to which company you want to work with for whatever other reasons. I figure I'll give them a shot at competing but I'll be surprised if they beat Joe's price.
 

CdnBeerLover

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Hmmm...the only PGI chips I have are the Yaks, which are very similar to the GOCC chips. I didn't find them significantly smoother. Both had more texture than the Sunfly samples I have.

You'll have to send me enough of those PGI/PCF chips to shuffle so that I can make a proper comparison. :D

Well, I now have the PGI/PCF chip. It's exactly the same feel as my custom Yaks, and the same thickness (3.35mm). The range of thickness for custom Yaks is 3.35mm - 3.38mm, and non-custom Yaks manufactured by Chipco were all 3.29mm - 3.31mm.

I have no idea how they compare to other PGI blanks.
 

palmgaming

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Here's how I understand it:

PGI offers at least two different ceramic blanks (possibly three) -- those made using Chipco equipment, and blanks produced by Sun-Fly. The Chipco blanks (custom Yaks) will look/feel/sound pretty close to real Chipco chips, and probably GOCC chips, too. The Sun-Fly blanks have more texture, and print quality will typically not be as sharp. There may be a third blank option, as well -- since Joe/PGI always stated he had two different blanks (his own plus Sun-Fly) long before they purchased the old Chipco equipment. For the record, the non-custom Yak denominations are real Chipco chips, produced by Chipco on Chipco equipment before it was sold to PGI.

Elsewhere, pretty sure that Sal/OWPS uses Sun-Fly blanks. And Gene/ABC has his own proprietary ceramic blank, which features a more squarish edge. ABC also has a very good reputation for print quality.


One of these days, I'm going to actually compare apples to apples, and have the exact same artwork submitted to all five vendors (PGI, GOCC, OWPS, ABC, Sun-Fly) for production on all available/offered blanks. Then we'll really see what's what regarding sound, feel, uniformity, stackability, and print quality.

we had at one time 4 blanks- were down to three now- for 39mm- one we mold here for casinos- one we have molded in the USA and one we bought from an overseas manufacturer but not sunfly. we dont like the sunfly blank- it doesnt take ink well. the yaks were done on chipco blanks before we took over the equipment- the custom yaks we do here but on the same chipco equipment- everything we do is based on chipco's way of doing things. same press, ink, paper, etc.
 

Tommy

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The PCF Tourney chips will be made on Chipco blanks. :)
 
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