General Thoughts on Pushing Small Edges (and a Crazy O8 Hand) (1 Viewer)

RainmanTrail · Feb 19, 2019

Mike Cappelletti and Ed Hutchinson both have starting hand strength point counting systems that are useful for beginners (they're directionally accurate, but definitely not optimal). I like Cappellettis system better. You can find it in his book "Winning at Omaha Hi Lo". He under values high only hand strength and overvalues A2 IMO, as do many winning players, but it's still useful.

It gives you points for each combo in your hand. So A2 is worth x points, A3 is worth less, K high flush draws are worth x, KK is worth x points, etc. You can probably find it online somewhere.

Anthony Martino · Feb 19, 2019

I actually played with Capelleti on my right at Foxwoods, I think it was a 4/8 O8 game with a full kill to 8/16? Can't remember it was a long time ago, but the game was full of limpers galore. I believe he passed a few years ago.

RainmanTrail · Feb 19, 2019

DrStrange said:
High only hands are marginal. Play them cheaply and in position.

Give me a big high only hand from any position at any price and I'm in. I'll cold call a capped bet pre flop all day long with hands like :js:

. That's not a marginal hand, it's a monster hand. Give me any 4 cards T or higher that all work well together (suited A or K in the mix, big pair or two, and a few straight combos) and I'm going to see the flop every time, and I'm often raising them to mix up my image pre flop.

The great thing about high only hands is that they're super easy to play post flop. If you don't smash the flop, you just fold it. You don't have to chase some marginal two way hand that never gets there. Remember, low only gets there half the time in O8, which means the other half the time, high only hands scoop the pot.

Anthony Martino · Feb 19, 2019

JustinInMN · Feb 19, 2019

In general, I think this question comes down to risk tolerance. I think it's fine to pass on small edges if it opens avenues to bigger edges. Don't have to jam flops if the turn is going to be a high leverage card for one example.

(That said this thread surely turned because the OP example was not a small edge but a leaky hand.)

Maybe a better example is flipping nut low nut flush draw without low backup. You might not push that edge as hard as the same hand with low backup. The edges aren't as obvious in Omaha.

That said by the nature of Omaha, hand values run close, so in a sense, small edges are all there is to push is some games.

DrStrange · Feb 20, 2019

I was thinking of OP's example hand of :as:

as a marginal high only hand that should be played cheaply, if at all. :js:

is not marginal, nor is any other similar hand. They are all excellent candidates for a starting hand - - and as noted, one of the best things about high hands is you know when you miss.

RainmanTrail · Feb 20, 2019

DrStrange said:
I was thinking of OP's example hand of as a marginal high only hand that should be played cheaply, if at all. is not marginal, nor is any other similar hand. They are all excellent candidates for a starting hand - - and as noted, one of the best things about high hands is you know when you miss.

That makes more sense. I think I misunderstood your previous post. Personally, I only play super strong high only hands like the :js:

example or hands like :ah:

and

, stuff like that. But I consider them to be premium holdings, every bit as strong as a good A2 hand. I don't play marginal high hands at all though. I wouldn't even call a raise from the big blind with something like :as:

. I don't want to make any straight with an 89 as it either makes the sucker straight or puts a low on board that takes half the pot. I also won't draw to a 9 high flush, and even a set of 9s isn't all that exciting. The only real value with it is a nut flush draw, and even that is pretty discounted when I can't win the low along with it.

I'm also folding the following hands pretty much every time pre flop in full ring (some of these are very playable 2 or 3 handed though):

:5s: