Flopped Quads Against Multiple Opponents OOP (1 Viewer)

Moxie Mike

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***Full disclosure: This was a hand I observed... I did not participate in this hand.***

Lots of discussion threads cover what to do in various tricky situations - but we don't often talk about how to extract max value in in situations where we're holding the stone-cold-got-the-deck-locked-down-bleeping-nuts. So let's have some fun with this one.

Also, there's no real point in analyzing the individual decisions outlined below, since you'll see that they're - ahem - not optimal on any street. The point of this is more of a general discussion of a situation we all encounter here and there.

$1/$2 NLHE full ring at a local charity room. Stack sizes at the table range from min-buy-in ($40) to full bullet ($300). Talent levels range from absolute fish to competent/reasonably solid player.

4 players limp around to the BB (stack: $200ish) who raises to $7 with pocket aces. Everyone calls. Pot=$35

Flop comes :ah:-:ax:-:jh:. BB (first to act) checks - action checks around.

Turn is the :th:. BB checks again. Next to act bets $10 - rest of the table calls around to the BB. Pot is now $75.

BB's action?

BB shoves all in. Action quickly folds around to the button (full stack), who tanks for 15 seconds, then folds. BB tables his hand, to which the button revealed had an out against.
 
Wow. Where to start? The 3.5x open with aces over four limps? Do they like getting their aces cracked and winning small pots when they hold? Lol.

5 ways I’m putting out a small c-bet on that flop, something like $15, flush draws, jacks, broadway draws may call. Players are much more likely to call a flop bet light vs later streets.

I’m leading the turn again small on that 10h probably, hoping somebody made their flush, as played, I may check raise to something like $45 after a $10 bet and 4 calls. The check jam is awful.

I’m hoping the river doesn’t kill any action and may try and check shove at this point after getting in a much more of my stack already by taking a better line across three streets.

SMH
 
Wow. Where to start? SMH

This dude was pretty risk averse with his bet sizes - I was the SB in this particular hand and I bluffed him at least a half-dozen times throughout the night - needless to say having him on my left was quite profitable :)

That's why I say let's not analyze this guy's play as part of the discussion - I think it's safe to say just about everyone here would have played it differently :)
 
I'm super risk adversed, so I don't mind it in ending the damn hand if outs came out. But you know only one card can help someone to the royal. So poke around a bit and make it scream like trips or two pair...
 
I'm super risk adversed, so I don't mind it in ending the damn hand if outs came out. But you know only one card can help someone to the royal. So poke around a bit and make it scream like trips or two pair...

The turn put a few SF draws on the board...:7h::8h:, :8h::9h:, :9h::qh:, :8h::qh:... all of which are conceivably in the ranges of 4 PF limpers. Some people don't mind killing their action and taking down a smallish pot - but shoving 2x the size of the pot to protect against a 1 or 2-outer is kind of bad poker by most standards.
 
The turn put a few SF draws on the board...:7h::8h:, :8h::9h:, :9h::qh:, :8h::qh:... all of which are conceivably in the ranges of 4 PF limpers. Some people don't mind killing their action and taking down a smallish pot - but shoving 2x the size of the pot to protect against a 1 or 2-outer is kind of bad poker by most standards.
I never said I was good at poker. :)
 
When flopping quads you always want it to be with a small pair and hope it is with a big card, preferably an A.

In this hand I would probably check the flop OOP, or bet a small amount since there could be a call by a flush or a J.

On the turn I’d definitely make a bet, maybe 1/4 pot hoping to get raised by a flush or a pair plus+ straight/flush draw.

No way I am raising anyone until the river for sure.
 
We don't spend much time on these types of situations because they are rare and we have far better places to spend our time improving our game.

Preflop: Raise bigger.

Flop: So what type of hand can call a small bet from Hero? Maybe a flush draw or a lesser pair. On the other hand, what types of hands will call a turn bet but wouldn't have called a flop bet? I can certainly respect a flop check, planning to call not raise any bets. But I don't think things get much better one street later. I'd try a small bet - say $10 - $12 bucks.

It matters what types of promotions are involved. Bad beat jackpot or high hand jackpots could make a serious difference.

Turn: OK, Hero trapped the flop and now we are at the turn. Time to bet. but not big. Maybe $15 or so. Invite the rest of the table to come along for the ride. Draw for your flush, straight or full house - it doesn't cost much.

Turn after Hero's second check: Shoving is the worst decision. Check/calling is "safe" but how is that making money? The draws will mostly miss and not pay a river bet. Or the river will be scary and drive off the weaker hands that might call a bet. I think a small check raise is best. Say $15 or so. Not only does this put another $50 +/- in the pot to win but it also builds a bigger pot to leverage a bigger river bet.

I do not fear a one out draw. Not even in the wheel house. I am fine with charging $15 to let you take a long shot draw. And I'll pay you off in full if it hits.

And if everyone folds to Hero's bet, then he wasn't going to win much anyway by waiting. That is going to happen a lot. Flopping a monster normally means action is killed or substantially killed. Monster hands don't always lead to big pots.

DrStrange
 
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Agree with everyone who said to raise more preflop. You shouldn't be inviting everyone to come along when you have aces. It plays much better two- or three-handed. In my experience, in a "charity" cardroom with an average lineup of suckers, you could make it $15–20 and reliably get called by at least one player.

I'm definitely checking the flop. With AA in the hole, you're holding everything worth having, so just lie low and let someone else take the lead.

You do have to build a pot at some point, though. Checking the turn is a mistake IMO. A small bet would be okay, especially with the board flushing. Someone is likely to chase. I'd go $15 personally.

As played, a check-raise is okay, just not for stacks. Hero checks, next guy bets $10, everyone calls, and Hero can now raise to some annoying amount like $25. It's big enough to fatten the pot, but small enough that most of your opponents will feel stupid folding to it. And who knows? Maybe the guy who made the $10 bet will get tempted to come over the top on a semi-bluff or something.

After that, it depends on what river card falls and what the action is, but the pot should be big enough that any betting could threaten stacks. Almost always leading the river, though. Checking again after that display of strength on the turn would be dumb.

I wrote almost this entire reply before DrStrange's reply showed up, but yes, I'm saying mostly the same stuff he said.
 
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This dude was pretty risk averse with his bet sizes - I was the SB in this particular hand and I bluffed him at least a half-dozen times throughout the night - needless to say having him on my left was quite profitable :)
You see these guys all the time at 1/2. Folds/limps all night, then suddenly opens for $35 and shows AA/KK when everybody folds. NH sir.

Preflop: $15-20 depending on how loose-passive the limpers are. I want a call or two but not everybody.

Flop: I can get behind a check-call, but I often like a small c-bet here to get some value from flush draws, jacks, and maybe even a gutshot with a heart or an underpair. 1/2 players do not like to fold to c-bets if they have anything, and you're going to get more value here than on the turn.

Turn: I like the small check-raise that others have suggested, that's probably the best line for getting some additional value here.

River: Lead out, but don't expect to get called much - maybe by a flush or an underboat, if even that.
 
Full disclosure: This was a hand I observed... I did not participate in this hand.

Lots of discussion threads cover what to do in various tricky situations - but we don't often talk about how to extract max value in in situations where we're holding the stone-cold-got-the-deck-locked-down-bleeping-nuts. So let's have some fun with this one.

Also, there's no real point in analyzing the individual decisions outlined below, since you'll see that they're - ahem - not optimal on any street. The point of this is more of a general discussion of a situation we all encounter here and there.

$1/$2 NLHE full ring at a local charity room. Stack sizes at the table range from min-buy-in ($40) to full bullet ($300). Talent levels range from absolute fish to competent/reasonably solid player.

4 players limp around to the BB (stack: $200ish) who raises to $7 with pocket aces. Everyone calls. Pot=$35

Flop comes :ah:-:ax:-:jh:. BB (first to act) checks - action checks around.

Turn is the :th:. BB checks again. Next to act bets $10 - rest of the table calls around to the BB. Pot is now $75.

BB's action?

BB shoves all in. Action quickly folds around to the button (full stack), who tanks for 15 seconds, then folds. BB tables his hand, to which the button revealed had an out against.
Check raise turn a reasonable amount that you would also bluff with in that spot. Build the pot. It’s too hard to get stacks in the middle by the river if they haven’t improved their hand. They may be willing to call a raise for their draw or do something silly like go all in themselves. Gives your opportunity to stack them.
 

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