Flat-call (1 Viewer)

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MattyMatt

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Or just "flat'.... isn't "flat call" and "flat" just "calling"?

Can a "Call" ever be anything other than "flat"?

Does anyone ever tell the dealer "I flat."? I only hear "I call"....

Drives me nuts. Tell me I'm missing something.



I also heard "back-raise". Wtf is that? It's just either a raise or a re-raise, right?

Yeah, I'm grouchy.
 
Flat, as I know it, is a call with the intention to raise later in the hand. Likely mistaken, this is my interpretation from years of context clues :)
 
I could be (and probably am) way off base here, but I’ve always interpreted “flatting” as calling when there are other legitimate options for the player. Often times, you hear a commentator on a TV hand say, “Oh wow, he’s just gonna flat.” Which to me, either means the player could/should have easily raised from a position of strength (or weakness, in order to move the other player off the pot), or even folded.

Basically, unless the player is deliberately setting a trap, I’ve always read “flatting” to have a negative connotation, meaning it probably wasn’t the most prudent play for the player. I’m sure others have different (and better) interpretations.
 
In my opinion a flat/smooth call is a specific type of call when you are able to see the players' hole cards. I agree that a flat/smooth call is the same as any other call... but when we know the hole cards it allows the viewer to see it coming from a position of strength. At least, that's how I have interpreted it.

Conversely, if you don't know the players' hole cards, I think the modifier is useless, and all calls are the same.
 
See, I recall hearing commentators suggesting and recommending (or at least accepting) "flatting", which then by definition strips the term of that meaning. After all, it's not possible to simultaneously say someone should have done one thing and also recommend they do the opposite.

Also, in the video with Gavin he uses "calling" and "flat calling" without making any distinction between the two.
 
Ok, everyone just chill out... wait, can someone explain to me “cold calling”? Is this different than “hot calling”.
 
MattyMatt said:
Or just "flat'.... isn't "flat call" and "flat" just "calling"?

Can a "Call" ever be anything other than "flat"?
Click to expand...

Flat calling is when you have a hand that is strong and can be raised, but where you decided, instead, to just call. A flat bet is the opposite of an exciting bet. Perhaps you're going for a call-raise; perhaps you think you'll scare too many people with a raise, perhaps you're setting up a play later in the hand.

MattyMatt said:
Does anyone ever tell the dealer "I flat."? I only hear "I call"....
Click to expand...

No, it would be like telling the table, "I have a monster, but I'm just going to call." It's kind of a tell.

And calling cold - from that linked thread - is entirely different, and is a more common phrase in limit poker. If the action is:

a: bet
b: call
c: raise
d: call
a: call
b: call

Then both b and d have called two bets, but only d has called two bets cold.
Player d called both bets at once; that's calling cold.
Player b called one bet, and then later called a second bet - they were already "warmed up" by the first call.

(Note: calling two cold requires a stronger hand than raising does.)

MattyMatt said:
I also heard "back-raise". Wtf is that? It's just either a raise or a re-raise, right?
Click to expand...

I never heard "back-raise," but I have heard, "raise back." It's just a raise or re-raise. It's a little color commentary - the person is raising back at the previous bettor.
 
Mental Nomad said:
Flat calling is when you have a hand that is strong and can be raised, but where you decided, instead, to just call. A flat bet is the opposite of an exciting bet. Perhaps you're going for a call-raise; perhaps you think you'll scare too many people with a raise, perhaps you're setting up a play later in the hand.



No, it would be like telling the table, "I have a monster, but I'm just going to call." It's kind of a tell.

And calling cold - from that linked thread - is entirely different, and is a more common phrase in limit poker. If the action is:

a: bet
b: call
c: raise
d: call
a: call
b: call

Then both b and d have called two bets, but only d has called two bets cold.
Player d called both bets at once; that's calling cold.
Player b called one bet, and then later called a second bet - they were already "warmed up" by the first call.

(Note: calling two cold requires a stronger hand than raising does.)



I never heard "back-raise," but I have heard, "raise back." It's just a raise or re-raise. It's a little color commentary - the person is raising back at the previous bettor.
Click to expand...

Are you RobinMidas over on 2+2 perhaps? J/k
 
MattyMatt said:
I also heard "back-raise". Wtf is that? It's just either a raise or a re-raise, right?
Click to expand...
Back-raising is raising after you've called a previous bet. I.e.,

villain 1: bet
hero: call
villain 2: raise
villain 1: call/fold
hero: raise
 
v1pe said:
IMO, flat, call, flat call, one chip call... All one in the same.
Click to expand...

yes, yes,yes and no. one chip call is different rule entirely. Actually its the over chip rule. an unnannounced raise with a single chip is a call.
 
this thing called flat calling is really just calling. no issue there.

I think this has evolved out of the old style of rock kind of play. you know that nitty guy who only playes premium hands and cbets everything. The new kids to poker put it like its like calling but flat calling has an intent. Typically used to unsettle people who Cbet everything. ie I know your going to cbet so im flat calling to see what you do there. the intent is to judge how strong you are after the cbet. then possibly bluff the turn.

so how Ive heard it its calling with an intent.

but im stumped... Every call i make has intent. Everything action has intent. If you don't have a plan then what the hell are you doing? Not all plans work, some have to change on the fly, but everything I do has some intent.

So going by the new kids rules - i flat call, flat raise, flat re raise, and flat fold.

Phew i feel a bit flat after that.
 
Yeah, I guess I just sort of feel like this is one of those terms that caught on at some point and nobody really knows what it means, but everyone "knows" what it means... it's just not really the same thing.

To me watching poker and talking about poker the only way it makes sense is if you follow the action. Since we're dealing with odds etc it doesn't make much sense to me to exclude that information, and once we include just how action developed during a betting round it becomes entirely superfluous to use terms like "back-raise" or "flat-call", because that information has already been given in the explanation.

I don't know… it just sounds a bit silly to me...
 
I like the extra information those terms provide. Do you feel the same way about

over-call
limp-fold
limp-call
limp-reraise
overbet
overbet-shove
re-shove
snap-shove
snap-fold
snap-call
 
It depends...

"Snap" for example indicates the amount of time it takes to make a decision and act, and that's important information. I can convey that same information a different way of course by saying "I raised to 200 and the Villain called immediately." Same information. The other way of saying it is "I raised to 200 and the Villain snap-called."

However, there's no difference between "shoved" and "re-shoved" for example that can't and typically won't be stated differently. If you and I are discussing a hand surely I will tell you the development of the betting in a round, and that will include someone shoving and then someone else shoving again. I'm not really adding anything by saying "re-shoving", because since I already told you there was a shove before you have that information already.

And again, this was specifically about "flat-calling", which it seems does in fact not mean the same thing to everyone. Some say it means "with intent", which I agree with the other poster is a bit daft because surely everything we do at the table should be with intent, or it means with the intent to.... what?... I have no idea... Or some say that it's when you have a hand you should raise with but choose calling instead, which to me makes no sense as long as someone says it's a good thing to flat-call: Because if it's a good thing then you weren't supposed to raise. And if it's only about raising being a decent option to calling then why not just say "call"? Gavin in that video actually interchanges "flat-call" with "call", and others have also made zero difference between the two.

So, to sum up; it seems like a term that people define differently and therefore it really isn't particularly useful. Also in general there's no point in adding a suffix to a term when you've already given that information elsewhere when recounting the betting round. And lastly, sometimes you really do need that other information to be stated in order for an evaluation to make sense - meaning that if we care about the math of it all then saying "overbet" isn't sufficient by itself... for example:

"I overbet on the river." ok.... so... pot+1%? pot+50%?… twice the pot?.... A lot of the time the recounting of the hand goes something like;
"I overbet 1.5x the pot on the river" (or whatever)… so giving the amount of the overbet is important for us to judge if it was a good move, meaning we don't have to say "over" since we know it's a bet and we know it's "1.5x the pot"...

I don't object to all terms, just some. That is all.
 
MattyMatt said:
Also in general there's no point in adding a suffix to a term when you've already given that information elsewhere when recounting the betting round.
Click to expand...
I agree that it doesn't add extra information, but I somehow I find the descriptive language more colorful in an enjoyable way. Definitely a matter of personal preference.
 
Stumbled upon this thread, an interesting read. However, it seems like you all missed one: "Seeing" someone's bet, which is calling with the intention to string raise.
 

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