Feedback: Is this line to spewy? (1 Viewer)

[boltonguy]

ACR 10NL Blitz 6-max fast fold. Only have 5 hands on V so no reads.

Pre-flop is standard. Hero in BB with 85s. Folds to BN who RFI 2.5 BB and Hero flats.

Flop is connected and middle and low cards hit my range. Hero X and V bets about 3/4 pot which is a bit large for a cbet on this board IMHO.
Looks like V is strong, maybe TP or overpair and wants to shut it down before the flush comes in.
Hero has a piece of the board so calls. Solver has Hero's specific hand 82% call / 18% raise (3.5x).

Turn pairs the board and puts another FD out there. V sizes up and overbets pot. This card favors my range.
I read in Brokos' Optimal Poker that when the middle card pairs the OOP player should bet/raise as it favors her range.
This is spewy but Hero raises. V calls probably still ahead with Tx, JJ+ hoping that I dont have the 7 or a FD.

The river brings in the FDFD and the straight (89, 34). Boats in my range are possible 57, 67.

Similar to the last HH, Hero knows that a pair of fives cant be good given v's betting on flop & turn.
However with the X/R on turn and several draws coming in this is a scary board for something like Tx, JJ+
Hero decides to jam. Once again, not deep enough to really generate the FE I would probably see if I was jamming for a PSB or greater.
Laying V 2.5 : 1 which will likely see a call from QQ+. Hoping for ATo here ...
But I feel like I have no choice here and the runout favors my actions & range.
Thoughts?

 

[TheDogg]

(Cheeseburger stakes player here)
I think you’re overemphasizing the range advantage BB has over Button here. Button should be raising about 50% of their hands, so it’s very possible to rub into Tx, 7x, and then they have almost as many suited connectors and gappers in their range here as you do. I do think a higher ratio of your hands here are nutted, so there is a slight nut advantage, but while you have more straights and flushes in your range button also has more full houses.

I think the biggest change I would do here is not check raising the turn. I think there are much better straight draw and flush draw candidates to bluff with, especially when our check raise sizing is giving straight draws and flush draws the odds to make automatic calls. Bottom pair is normally a good bluff because it blocks two pair as a calling hand, but the paired sevens on the board counterfeits two pair and it is much less likely to continue betting the turn (or has hit a full house).

Then, when both straights and the flush come in on the river, you’re left in a really tough spot. You do have the 8 as a blocker to the straight draw, but as stated before the 5 is not a blocker to 2 pair anymore as the paired 7s counterfeit it. And we gave the odds to the flush draw to continue, so we’re not feeling good at all about not having a spade. I’m not sure that given what we’re representing with the check raise we can check but it’s a tough spot we’ve put ourselves in with the check raise on the turn.

anyways take my cheeseburger stakes advise with salt

 

[Legend5555]

If you going to play the turn that way, I can't see how you don't shove the river. Sucks that you weren't a bit deeper though.

 

[Marius L]

Imo, your line and thinking makes sense, but the question is if villain is a thinking player or not, and if he is likely to lay down the winning hand. In these lower stakes online games in my experience people are likely to call too loose in many spots, and often unlikely to lay down a Top pair /over pair kind of hand. If that's the case, then even if your play technically makes sense, it might be too advanced for the oponent you are playing against.

Just thinking of one of the hands you have posted earlier, I remember a villain that called an allin with AK high, when he was clearly beat by your overpair or whatever it was.

IMO valuebetting hard when the opponents are likely to call too loosely is the better play in these low stakes online games. (imo of course, and I'm honestly not all up to date, as it's been a couple of years since I played a lot online).

 

[Legend5555]

To add to my comment earlier, while you line make total sense in a vacuum. You have HUDs on ACR. You can just wait until you have enough data to make better decisions. There would be a big difference if the guy was playing 17/15 or 26/23.

 

[Anthony Martino]

Imo, your line and thinking makes sense, but the question is if villain is a thinking player or not, and if he is likely to lay down the winning hand. In these lower stakes online games in my experience people are likely to call too loose in many spots, and often unlikely to lay down a Top pair /over pair kind of hand. If that's the case, then even if your play technically makes sense, it might be too advanced for the oponent you are playing against.

Just thinking of one of the hands you have posted earlier, I remember a villain that called an allin with AK high, when he was clearly beat by your overpair or whatever it was.

IMO valuebetting hard when the opponents are likely to call too loosely is the better play in these low stakes online games. (imo of course, and I'm honestly not all up to date, as it's been a couple of years since I played a lot online).

Agree with this. You're guilty of FPS (fancy play syndrome) in a low-stakes setting

It would be like me trying to play GTO in my live PLO games when Exploitative is the better option, given the opponents

 

[Dugthefish]

Fold pre

 

[boltonguy]

Fold pre

I'm assuming this is a joke? IMHO this (as well as SC & one-gappers) is a great flat from the BB vs a 2.5 - 3BB raise from any position. The hand has huge implied odds. Yes it will can be over-flushed but can make very concealed straights and two pair.

I think this play is borderline - would have been much better if I actually had draw equity (e.g. 86s). If the draws had bricked (e.g. 2 or J no spades) I would have had to X and lose as a jam makes no sense. If V had bet more "normal" sizing on flop & turn it wouldnt have screamed "betting big scared of a draw with my TP or overpair" and I would have played the hand very differently. I did get lucky and V folded here but I need to continue to cut out the spew. I appreciate the feedback.

I only have 7,400 hands on ACR 10NL Blitz this year vs 37,900 on Ignition 25NL Zone but limited experience plus HUD data on ACR suggests that the pool plays much tighter. Maybe the lack of anonymity is a big factor. If I look at the players for whom I have about 100+ hands play does look pretty tight based on VPIP/PFR. I cant get a similar report for Ignition as it is anonymous but I can look at hole cards and it is looser anecdotally IMHO.

The other negative to ACR vs Iggy is that ACR doesnt not make all hole cards available after 24 hours (Iggy does) so we will never know what V folded here.

I appreciate the feedback. I am trying to cut the spew from my game!

 

[Eriks]

I think you could easily make a case for all three options pre depending on opponent’s stats.

I agree with @Marius L that you’re probably trying to hard with these plays. And even if villain is a thinking player I think it’s questionable. Although you seemingly put 1-pair hands in a tough spot, your perceived value range doesn’t really make sense

57s - bottom 2 probably wants to raise the wet flop.
T7s - also probably wants to raise the wet flop. But might not want to blow villain off his hand with a raise on the turn?
67s - makes sense
55 - probably wants to raise the flop
FD/98s - would you really raise the overbet on the turn with those when the board pairs? Maybe 98 of hearts

I think you’ll often get looked up by AT+ here

 

[Legend5555]

I'm assuming this is a joke? IMHO this (as well as SC & one-gappers) is a great flat from the BB vs a 2.5 - 3BB raise from any position. The hand has huge implied odds. Yes it will can be over-flushed but can make very concealed straights and two pair.

I think this play is borderline - would have been much better if I actually had draw equity (e.g. 86s). If the draws had bricked (e.g. 2 or J no spades) I would have had to X and lose as a jam makes no sense. If V had bet more "normal" sizing on flop & turn it wouldnt have screamed "betting big scared of a draw with my TP or overpair" and I would have played the hand very differently. I did get lucky and V folded here but I need to continue to cut out the spew. I appreciate the feedback.

I only have 7,400 hands on ACR 10NL Blitz this year vs 37,900 on Ignition 25NL Zone but limited experience plus HUD data on ACR suggests that the pool plays much tighter. Maybe the lack of anonymity is a big factor. If I look at the players for whom I have about 100+ hands play does look pretty tight based on VPIP/PFR. I cant get a similar report for Ignition as it is anonymous but I can look at hole cards and it is looser anecdotally IMHO.

View attachment 702001

The other negative to ACR vs Iggy is that ACR doesnt not make all hole cards available after 24 hours (Iggy does) so we will never know what V folded here.

I appreciate the feedback. I am trying to cut the spew from my game!

View attachment 702004

Even though they play tighter, it's still not necessary to run bluffs like this. Unless they are playing over 21/17, they usually just have it when the are betting large or betting multiple streets. Not that you can't raise some gutshots with backdoor flush draw, or turn pairs into bluffs sometimes, but it's just not something you need to do as often as a solver would say. I like how you played until turn. Though with the rake the way it is, you actually can play a bit tighter from the BB than you'd think. Going to a flop is expensive in small pots.

 

[Anthony Martino]

Going to a flop is expensive in small pots.

But Hero made it a big pot, problem solved!