Tourney Experiences with high roller STT sets and breakdowns (T1000 base?) (1 Viewer)

Eloe2000

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I am at the beginning stages of designing a high roller 44mm STT set for occasional use. I haven’t played one before so am curious about the playability of these higher denominated sets. I am thinking of a T1K/5K/25K/100K starting stack because; 1) it basically starts off where my standard STT set ends at 1K, 2) this avoids the odd half jump from say 500 to 1K etc, and 3) it seems the set would be incredibly effecient and maybe can even be accomplished with just 300 chips, and 4) the numbers don’t seem to get too big to get confusing (starting the set with say 100K I could image the the larger bets get to such high numbers as to be confusing when calculating or announcing,

I would imagine a starting stack of something like 10/8/6/1 (1K/5K/25k/100k) for 300k, but wide open to suggestions.

I am curious if this is a playable or there are better high denom high roller set breakdowns that work best.

I am really just trying to settle this now so I know what colors to design.

Any thoughts, experiences, or recommendations appreciated!

Thanks - Casa Mango Management
 
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1/5/25/100 sounds good. I like 10/8/10/x for a 300k-500k stack and that’s based off of playing a T1 set in the past. If you’re only planning 300k per player you could go just 10/8/10 and have some special oversized 100ks or 100k plaques come into play later in the game.
 

Eloe2000

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1/5/25/100 sounds good. I like 10/8/10/x for a 300k-500k stack and that’s based off of playing a T1 set in the past. If you’re only planning 300k per player you could go just 10/8/10 and have some special oversized 100ks or 100k plaques come into play later in the game.

Sorry, just seeing this now for some reason. So maybe a 500K with stacks of 10/8/10/2 is better (which would be similar to a 500 with base T1)? That sounds legit.
 
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Sorry, just seeing this now for some reason. So maybe a 500K with stacks of 10/8/10/2 is better (which would be similar to a 500 with base T1)? That sounds legit.
30 chips in play per player. Have some 500k available for color up. Of course more if rebuys are available. You can go with a different breakdown if you’re a moaaar chips guy and want more than 30 in play per player. 15/12/9/2 works.
 

LeLe

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I saw a few Super High Roller set that usually started at 5000, and use 25k 100k 500k. And they work basically like T5 set,

10/10/7/2 or 15/13/11/1 will the starting stack for those
 
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Saoliver

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The starting stacks look good.

Obligatory pron. No longer mine. Belonged to @Josh Kifer before me.

1658897058243.jpeg


1658897079890.jpeg
 

mipevi

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Figuring out the breakdown is really just about how much playability you want to have, and that is defined by the multipliers, for NL/PL tourneys usually 2x or 3x. Using these simple multipliers you can figure out a suitable breakdown for any values you want to use. Take this common T10k tourney with a T25 base starting stack for example:

12x T25 (3x T100)
12x T100 (combined with T25’s 3x T500)
7x T500 (T25/T100/T500 —> 5x T1000)
5x T1000

That last jump’s multiplier is just way too big, and people generally tend to use too many T500’s. For a full table, going with a 2x multiplier for every step would be my minimum, and that should go up if playing short-handed. If you want great playability though, I would consider using 3x even for ten players.

You can of course use a mixed bag, and sometimes you compromise a little to end up with full racks without too many filler chips. For example if you want to use a 3x but only have very few chips of the highest denom in stacks, then a 2x for the last jump will work great. The first jump (2x instead of 3x) is another good spot to trim down the total amount of chips, as the moment of worse playability should be over relatively soon.

The starting stack listed in the OP, 10/8/6/1 (1k/5k/25k/100k) for 300k, uses a 2x multiplier from start to finish, so for 10 players it works fine with good enough playability. Add the color-ups (0/2/2/0) and you have a total of 290 chips, so room for 10x 100k I guess to actually make it a T400k set. For increased playability you could consider using a mixture of 3x/2x multipliers and start with 15/12/5/2 for T400k, plus color-ups (0/3/3/0), that comes to a set of 400 chips.
 
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Eloe2000

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I saw a few Super High Roller set that usually started at 5000, and use 25k 100k 500k. And they work basically like T5 set,

10/10/7/2 or 15/13/11/1 will the starting stack for those

Yeah have seen lots of mentions of T500 and some T5K sets. I didn’t understand why. I guess with one of those that 5th denomination of 1M would be nice is simply a 2x for rebuys or color up?
 

Eloe2000

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The starting stacks look good.

Obligatory pron. No longer mine. Belonged to @Josh Kifer before me.

View attachment 956158

View attachment 956159

These are awesome. How did these games play? That’s sort of really what I am looking for. But I would hate to design an entire CPC 44mm set and find out there is some weird quirk that you can’t see on paper that makes the game play off. I am only used to T25 and T100 tournaments.
 

LeLe

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Yeah have seen lots of mentions of T500 and some T5K sets. I didn’t understand why. I guess with one of those that 5th denomination of 1M would be nice is simply a 2x for rebuys or color up?
I think the biggest advantage of T5 with 5 25 100 500 all being 4x or 5x multiply, you can get away with just 4 denominations for STT or 2 table tourney with rebuy

while T25 & T100 you will need 5 different denominations for the same Tourney
 

upNdown

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Yeah have seen lots of mentions of T500 and some T5K sets. I didn’t understand why. I guess with one of those that 5th denomination of 1M would be nice is simply a 2x for rebuys or color up?
I want to say that the real Aria high roller tournaments used to use a 500 and that there was a 500 ante starting in level 1? But this was in the days before big blind ante.
I can’t see any reason why you’d want a 500 chip in this set.
 

Eloe2000

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Figuring out the breakdown is really just about how much playability you want to have, and that is defined by the multipliers, for NL/PL tourneys usually 2x or 3x. Using these simple multipliers you can figure out a suitable breakdown for any values you want to use. Take this common T10k tourney with a T25 base starting stack for example:

12x T25 (3x T100)
12x T100 (combined with T25’s 3x T500)
7x T500 (T25/T100/T500 —> 5x T1000)
5x T1000

That last jump’s multiplier is just way too big, and people generally tend to use too many T500’s. For a full table, going with a 2x multiplier for every step would be my minimum, and that should go up if playing short-handed. If you want great playability though, I would consider using 3x even for ten players.

You can of course use a mixed bag, and sometimes you compromise a little to end up with full racks without too many filler chips. For example if you want to use a 3x but only have very few chips of the highest denom in stacks, then a 2x for the last jump will work great. The first jump (2x instead of 3x) is another good spot to trim down the total amount of chips, as the moment of worse playability should be over relatively soon.

The starting stack listed in the OP, 10/8/6/1 (1k/5k/25k/100k) for 300k, uses a 2x multiplier from start to finish, so for 10 players it works fine with good enough playability. Add the color-ups (0/2/2/0) and you have a total of 290 chips, so room for 10x 100k I guess to actually make it a T400k set. For increased playability you could consider using a mixture of 3x/2x multipliers and start with 15/12/5/2 for T400k, plus color-ups (0/3/3/0), that comes to a set of 400 chips.

I can’t believe I have never heard of this philosophy, but this gets to exactly what I am trying to understand and it makes complete sense. I need to sit down with pen and paper and play with this a little bit to understand it’s implications a bit more.

Thank you for this enlightenment!

FWIW with just a T25 STT we only ever color up the T25s and sometimes we don’t even bother with that. So I don’t get too stressed about color up details although I will certainly order chips for that.
 
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Eloe2000

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I think the biggest advantage of T5 with 5 25 100 500 all being 4x or 5x multiply, you can get away with just 4 denominations for STT or 2 table tourney with rebuy

while T25 & T100 you will need 5 different denominations for the same Tourney

Although. This holds true for T1K’s too and of course I want the color for the T1k in my set haha!

But I could definitely do a T5K set and squeeze in Orange/Peach for a higher denom.
 

Eloe2000

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A T1000 base set/structure and a T5000 base set/structure is pretty much exactly the same as a T1 or T5 base structure, just multiply everything by 1000.

Does one have more playability (whatever that may mean) than the other?
 

philhut

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As a player I get confused when the numbers get really large. I typically play t5 or t25 base of btw 500 to 5000 starting stacks and even t1 base. If playing a set starting at t1000 I would simply drop the zeros in my head to 1/5/25/100 instead of 1000/5000/25000/100000. Lools like a nice set though and if you like to play big numbers like the later stages of a multi table tournament why not.
 

mipevi

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For me playability means how smooth the experience is. I want to have enough of each denom so I won't have to constantly make change, but on the other hand I don't want to have a ton of unnecessary chips either, which can make counting chips cumbersome (the T500's in my earlier example). You can use any base just as effectively as long as you follow the same multipliers. I will note that the blind structure can increase or alleviate any issues a set's breakdown may have.
 

Eloe2000

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As a player I get confused when the numbers get really large. I typically play t5 or t25 base of btw 500 to 5000 starting stacks and even t1 base. If playing a set starting at t1000 I would simply drop the zeros in my head to 1/5/25/100 instead of 1000/5000/25000/100000. Lools like a nice set though and if you like to play big numbers like the later stages of a multi table tournament why not.

I get this and that’s why I was liking 1000, 5000, 25000, and 100000. While they are big numbers, they are very round and it seems like it would be relatively easy to formulate bets and calculate pots. This would be an occasionally used set intended for a bigger experience.
 

allforcharity

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Does one have more playability (whatever that may mean) than the other?

Probably not.

The T5000 and T5 technically run into the same efficiency problem when you hit the T500k/T500 denom, in that the next I'd T1MM/T1k which is only a 2x multiplier, but is mitigated somewhat by using the highest denom for rebuys/topups (and colour ups) exclusively, unless playing super deep (400BB+).
 

Josh Kifer

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I can’t believe I have never heard of this philosophy, but this gets to exactly what I am trying to understand and it makes complete sense. I need to sit down with pen and paper and play with this a little bit to understand it’s implications a bit more.

Thank you for this enlightenment!

FWIW with just a T25 STT we only ever color up the T25s and sometimes we don’t even bother with that. So I don’t get too stressed about color up details although I will certainly order chips for that.
Yeah, that's a fantastic way to look at it. Damn!
 

Santa123

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I want the first color up as late as possible and I think T1 T100 T1k based breakdowns are perfect for that. My first blind level even starts with 1/1.

1/1
1/2
1/3
2/4
3/6
4/8
6/12
8/16
10/20
...

This give you 8 blind levels before coloring up.
 
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