Ethics Question: Your Duty in Response to Other Players Exposing Their Cards (1 Viewer)

How do you respond to players habitually exposing hole cards?

  • Say nothing

    Votes: 4 7.3%
  • Warn them once, then it's game on and I will attempt to look every time

    Votes: 4 7.3%
  • Warn them once, then if I see without attempting to look it's not my problem

    Votes: 41 74.5%
  • Warn them every time I see their hand

    Votes: 4 7.3%
  • Warn the whole table that I can see their hand

    Votes: 1 1.8%
  • Warn them every time I see their hand and if they play the hand, I announce the cards I saw

    Votes: 1 1.8%
  • Tell the floor/host that the player is regularly exposing his hand

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    55

jbutler

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In limon's now-classic "random shyt" thread (which is always worth rereading) he mentioned how often he sees opponents' hole cards and it caused a fair bit of controversy, players arguing he should or shouldn't use the information he gained. Some people said it depended on whether he tried to see versus made no effort and saw anyway, some said he was ethically obliged to always tell the other player, and others expressed a variety of opinions along the continuum between outright disgust that he would ever see another player's hole cards to laughter at the idiocy of those who don't protect their hand.

I used to give a heads up to players who flashed a card or two occasionally, but a few times even a benign mention sent the player into a weird mood and twice they accused me of trying to look at their cards. So for a few years now I've made it a policy that when I'm in a casino, unless I know you very well, I don't say a word if I see your cards. In home games I will almost always say something to the other player, usually multiple times if necessary because usually in home games I know the players well and it's a much more social atmosphere.

But over the past year I've been playing more and more in a local underground game and less in the casino and the guys in this game are horrific at protecting their hands. There are three guys in the game who literally expose their entire hand to their neighbor every single time. And we use jumbo index because the older guys don't have great eyes anymore, so it's even more noticeable.

So my question: how would you handle this? Do you say nothing? Do you tell them once and then leave it to them to protect themselves after that? Do you purposefully avert your eyes (which is often difficult if they're sitting on the side of you in which you have to look to see the board/dealer) from their direction? Do you let the other players know you can see their hand?

Another consideration is that if it's not you, the other players sitting next to these guys will 100% see their hands. Whether they can use that information effectively (beyond the obv removing the nut suit card from someone's range, etc.) is a different story, but there is a lot of information to be had because we're playing 4- and 5-hole card games.

Hopefully the poll options are close enough to exhaustive, but obviously the options aren't mutually exclusive, so if you think a combo of the options is the best course of action, vote for the one that demands the most action. Obviously discussion of your choice in the thread would be would be welcome.
 
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Voted: Warn them once, then if I see without attempting to look it's not my problem

In reality, it's more like I warn them once and then I make all the effort in the world to look the other way when that player is looking at his cards (the above was the closest).

Funny, I voted the same, but am on the other side of the line. I make no effort to not see, but always think to myself that I'm being a fish for not doing everything I can to see if they're holding them up in my face.

FWIW I have no ethical problem with someone who says nothing, but for whatever reason I still do the warning (which in many cases happened for the first and only time a year or more ago with some players) and don't crane my neck to look.
 
Funny, I voted the same, but am on the other side of the line. I make no effort to not see, but always think to myself that I'm being a fish for not doing everything I can to see if they're holding them up in my face.

FWIW I have no ethical problem with someone who says nothing, but for whatever reason I still do the warning (which in many cases happened for the first and only time a year or more ago with some players) and don't crane my neck to look.

I don't blame you Jack... You should not be inconvenienced by the other player's mistake and ethically, you already gave him/her a warning... I guess the only reason I try to look the other way is I do not wanna get caught looking at somebody's hand by other players (even that happening unintentionally) and be labeled as angle shooter... Also, a good percentage of my poker time is in home games when friendship plays a big role so I'd feel I'll be taking advantage of some of those guys... Thinking again, maybe in home games I warn the person way more than once...
 
depends on the game, depends on the players, depends on the stakes, depends on the location of the game.

I'm usually in the camp of giving 1 warning, but I can toss that out if im playing some dickhead whos check raising me in a casino setting and showing down bluffs, or is compeltely hammered in a casino setting
 
Also, a good percentage of my poker time is in home games when friendship plays a big role so I'd feel I'll be taking advantage of some of those guys...

Yeah this is huge. If I were sitting next to someone from PCF I would be kicking him every time and telling him to protect his hand.

Probably a big part of my treating it less forgivingly in my game is that 2 of the 3 worst offenders are huge rage machines who will routinely blow up on anyone who says what they perceive to be the wrong thing when they're running bad (and they think they're running bad all the time since they are uniformly terrible players).

I'm usually in the camp of giving 1 warning, but I can toss that out if im playing some dickhead whos...compeltely hammered in a casino setting

Agreed on this one. An obnoxious drunk gets no warning and I'm in favor of any legal tactic to felt him and get him off the table immediately.
 
Nooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!

Bergman's been on his best behavior when he's been at Borgata, but I would love to see him get ripped one time and play $1/2 NLHE late night.

There's a floor - Bob - who works graveyard on the weekends who absolutely brutalizes the drunks. I would bet any amount of money that Bob has kicked out more poker players than any other floor in the history of Borgata. Bob vs. (Bob) Berg would be an epic battle.
 
Home and meet up games I would always make it a habit to look away and constantly remind players to protect their hands.

Underground and casino games with friends, I would always make it a habit to look away and constantly remind players to protect their hands.

Underground and casino games with strangers - I have no problem whatsoever using information gleaned from dealers improperly pitching cards (though I won't go out of my way to sit in the 4-6 seats). Additionally, if a player in the casino or underground game that I don't know exposes their hand, and I'm not trying to look but see it in the course of doing normal card playing things, then I'm using that info and I'm never saying a word to them. By normal things I mean things like looking at the flop, looking at players or stacks, etc. I'm never *trying* to see cards - life is a lot easier when you don't from a player interaction perspective.
 
I always give at least one warning, usually multiple warnings before I give up. I also find myself consciously looking in the other direction if I'm next to a card exposer. Even if the guy is an idiot, its still an unfair advantage over the rest of the table.
 
Home and meet up games I would always make it a habit to look away and constantly remind players to protect their hands.

Underground and casino games with friends, I would always make it a habit to look away and constantly remind players to protect their hands.

Underground and casino games with strangers - I have no problem whatsoever using information gleaned from dealers improperly pitching cards (though I won't go out of my way to sit in the 4-6 seats). Additionally, if a player in the casino or underground game that I don't know exposes their hand, and I'm not trying to look but see it in the course of doing normal card playing things, then I'm using that info and I'm never saying a word to them. By normal things I mean things like looking at the flop, looking at players or stacks, etc. I'm never *trying* to see cards - life is a lot easier when you don't from a player interaction perspective.

I think the above pretty much sums up my thoughts as well...
 
I'll give one warning then try not to look under almost any setting. If it's Butler, I taunt and needle mercilessly. :LOL: :laugh:
 
In a home game, I'll typically go out of my way to avoiding peeping cards and will warn people whenever it happens.

In a public cardroom, however, I warn once and then I see what I see. Depending on the person's behavior or other factors, I may extend more than one warning, or I may rescind the initial warning if you're a total dipshit.

Usually very old people and/or people with obvious disabilities get a healthy backstock of warnings before I'm willing to give up.
 
I'd love to see a Jimulacrum rescinding of an earlier warning...

Jimulacrum: "Hey, remember I told you I could see your cards?"

Random Villain: "Yeah"

Jimulacrum: "Well, you stole 2 pots from me, won't shut up about a bad beat from 2007, and spilled your cheap beer on me. I hereby rescind my earlier warning regarding your cards"

Villain: "huh?"

Jimulacrum: (screaming) "X-RAY VISION!!! I'VE GOT FUCKING X-RAY FUCKING VISION AND YOU SIR ARE HOLDING THE SEVEN OF KNAVES!!!"

....after this it devolves into a Game of Thrones type situation with wanton violence and a blatant disregard for the human condition.
 
Home and meet up games I would always make it a habit to look away and constantly remind players to protect their hands.

Underground and casino games with friends, I would always make it a habit to look away and constantly remind players to protect their hands.

Underground and casino games with strangers - I have no problem whatsoever using information gleaned from dealers improperly pitching cards (though I won't go out of my way to sit in the 4-6 seats). Additionally, if a player in the casino or underground game that I don't know exposes their hand, and I'm not trying to look but see it in the course of doing normal card playing things, then I'm using that info and I'm never saying a word to them. By normal things I mean things like looking at the flop, looking at players or stacks, etc. I'm never *trying* to see cards - life is a lot easier when you don't from a player interaction perspective.
Exactly this for me.
 
In a home game, I'll typically go out of my way to avoiding peeping cards and will warn people whenever it happens.

In a public cardroom, however, I warn once and then I see what I see. Depending on the person's behavior or other factors, I may extend more than one warning, or I may rescind the initial warning if you're a total dipshit.

Usually very old people and/or people with obvious disabilities get a healthy backstock of warnings before I'm willing to give up.
And we elderly with poor vision appreciate it.
 
I always give at least one warning, usually multiple warnings before I give up. I also find myself consciously looking in the other direction if I'm next to a card exposer. Even if the guy is an idiot, its still an unfair advantage over the rest of the table.
I consider your skill an unfair advantage over the rest of the table. Have you considered something to level that playing field a la Harrison Bergeron?
 
Personally I don't know why this is a thing - I've never seen any player's cards ever, other than when one flashed during the deal, in which case I will say something.

I'm also the guy who can drive past a Hardee's every day for 6 years, and never notice it is there (tunnel vision - I prefer "focused." :whistle: :whistling:)
 
Just one warning... I try not to look, but some folks raise them so high you just can't help but see them
 
I flash my cards all the time because of my poor vision. The PCFers are quite kind to remind me every hand or 2.
 

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