Electric pickups! (2 Viewers)

[Taghkanic]

My big hope for 2023 is that all the companies which have been teasing electric pickup trucks, or only producing a handful of their “released” models, start really bringing these to market. I figure I’m not the only one eyeing this market, and wanted to start a thread for discussion as more brands and models and options finally roll out...

 

[Taghkanic]

My situation: Currently I have two vehicles. One is for work on my forestry project—a custom built lifted Jeep converted into a pickup truck, the AEV Brute Double Cab. I need this to maintain and navigate an extensive trail system on my land, haul around saws and pickaroons and peaveys, winch out fallen trees and stuck tractors, etc.

The other is my “day to day” car, a 2021 Toyota RAV4 Prime. It’s a PHEV about 50 miles electric range, plus a gas motor and tank for longer trips. I almost never go more than 20 miles out and back, so it functions almost like a full electric car for me.

I would much rather have just one vehicle -- an electric pickup.

 

[Taghkanic]

But many of the options out there are either subject to a long waiting list, or wildly expensive, or don’t have the options I need, or seem to only exist in a theoretical vaporware alternate universe...

I was pretty intrigued at first by the Rivian R1T. It fulfills some of my needs, such as the ability to achieve very high ground clearance when traversing obstacles. But it is both hard to get one, pretty pricey, and lacking some basic amenities I need (such as the ability to add a front end winch).

Others hitting the market seem more aimed at heavy hauling than at off-roading.

I’ll post some links to various roundups in the next message.

 

[Windwalker]

The Rivian R1T has a 0-60 in 3 seconds and a towing capacity of 11,000lbs and a wading depth of 3+ feet. It’s got an effective truck bed length of 84 inches and between all the compartments, 63 cubic feet of capacity. It’s also got a gear tunnel with 11 cubic feet of capacity and that can hold up to 250 lbs.

 

[Windwalker]

I was pretty intrigued at first by the Rivian R1T.

Ha. Didn’t realize you just posted this before I did.

 

[grebe]

I have my reservation for a cyber truck, but probably will get priced out when they eventually come out. Under 60K for the double motor would be a hell of a deal, and potentially my last vehicle I would ever buy.

The Rivians are up there....I priced one out at 100K. They are good looking for sure....much easier on the eyes than the polarizing cybertruck. I just don't think the utility is going to match the stainless steel body, (somewhat) shatter proof glass, and the battery capacity of the Tesla. At least for me.

Right now, I am in a Ridgeline getting 16 mpg. I am ready to be done with it.

 

[Colquhoun]

And here I was thinking this was going to be another guitar thread.
Carry on...

 

[Taghkanic]

Rivian recently pulled a move that enraged a lot of people on their waiting list… They announced that they are no longer going to produce the base model, so those with reservations either have to bump up to the next level at a $12-15K price hike, or else cancel within 30 days.

 

[buzzmonkey]

I like the urban utility of a pickup (dump runs, Lowe's, etc) but don't have any towing needs. That and the idea of having it as a backup power supply for my house during outages made the F-150L interesting to me. But I just wouldn't need a truck that big and I don't think it will fit in my garage. There's talk of an EV Ranger. I'm keeping an eye out for more info on that.

 

[doublebooyah85]

If you are in the market for an EV Truck and don't have a reservation now you will either need to;

A) Pay close to $15,000 over MSRP
B) Wait 18-36 months

With the existing reservations, and still crippling supply chain, manufacturers are not ready to mass produce vehicles, let alone EV's, to salsify demand.

With that being said...I LOVE the Ford Lightning!!!

 

[doublebooyah85]

Rivian recently pulled a move that enraged a lot of people on their waiting list… They announced that they are no longer going to produce the base model, so those with reservations either have to bump up to the next level at a $12-15K price hike, or else cancel within 30 days.

Ford just increased most of their EV's $6-$9K, but you were price protected on existing reservations. However, it's taking so long, they hope those reservations drop off probably lol.

 

[buzzmonkey]

If you are in the market for an EV Truck and don't have a reservation now you will either need to;

A) Pay close to $15,000 over MSRP
B) Wait 18-36 months

With the existing reservations, and still crippling supply chain, manufacturers are not ready to mass produce vehicles, let alone EV's, to salsify demand.

With that being said...I LOVE the Ford Lightning!!!

Yeah, luckily I'm not in a huge hurry. My wife got a new ICE vehicle last year and my paid off Sentra still runs pretty good. If I can get 2 more years out of it, hopefully options and supply issues will be in a better place.

 

[doublebooyah85]

Yeah, luckily I'm not in a huge hurry. My wife got a new ICE vehicle last year and my paid off Sentra still runs pretty good. If I can get 2 more years out of it, hopefully options and supply issues will be in a better place.

They won't be, but in 2 years your reservation will be ready to be fulfilled.

If you wait 2 years, then you will need to wait another 2 years again lol. I don't think we will be able to produce enough EV vehicles to satisfy demand for 5+ years.

 

[allforcharity]

They won't be, but in 2 years your reservation will be ready to be fulfilled.

If you wait 2 years, then you will need to wait another 2 years again lol. I don't think we will be able to produce enough EV vehicles to satisfy demand for 5+ years.

And yet Toyota still says "there is no demand for EVs".

 

[doublebooyah85]

And yet Toyota still says "there is no demand for EVs".

Well now let me contradict myself. Their kinda isn’t demand on a volume scale. Honda hasn’t really didn’t jump on EV either. Nor Subaru. But works for smaller manufacturers like start ups.

EV’s are proving very hard to build in todays market. And the demand isn’t in the millions…(for comparison 12-17m new cars are sold a year).

Ford has tried to go aggressively in the EV market and it’s frankly bombed. They spent tons of resources building the Mach and Lightning and have sold minimal while sacrificing the rest of their model line up.

I don’t know if EV will be the future necessarily (5-10 years from now even). It still requires a fossil fuel (how is electricity made lol).

The gov is pushing it bc they can control electricity easier than gas and the manufacurer is pushing it bc it requires almost no more warranty work and opens up direct to consumer sales.

15 million new cars sold a year. 500,000 + last year were plug in OR hybrid version of EV. Maybe we get to 2-3 million in 3-5 years. That’s still only 20%.

They do make perfect sense for super cars. EVs are far superior in regards to speed/performance.

 

[buzzmonkey]

I don’t know if EV will be the future necessarily (5-10 years from now even). It still requires a fossil fuel (how is electricity made lol).

EV will be the future at this point because that's the direction the industry has chosen to move away from ICE vehicles. If there's a better technology, it hasn't been adopted yet. The only real competitor in the last few decades was Hydrogen, but that so far has only been adopted in small test cases for some larger uses like industrial and public transportation.

As to how electricity is being made, that's going to depend on where you live and what climate policies your state has put in place. Where I live, non-fossil fuel power generation is near 80%. Plus, fossil fuel electricity generation, while still highly polluting, is still more efficient than an ICE.

 

[doublebooyah85]

EV will be the future at this point because that's the direction the industry has chosen to move away from ICE vehicles. If there's a better technology, it hasn't been adopted yet. The only real competitor in the last few decades was Hydrogen, but that so far has only been adopted in small test cases for some larger uses like industrial and public transportation.

As to how electricity is being made, that's going to depend on where you live and what climate policies your state has put in place. Where I live, non-fossil fuel power generation is near 80%. Plus, fossil fuel electricity generation, while still highly polluting, is still more efficient than an ICE.

It hasn’t moved there yet…imho as an auto dealer myself, we will see in 10 years bc it will take that long to get MAYBE 50% new vehicle EV sales.

I didn’t even mention the mess of mining minerals and recycling batteries.

 

[slisk250]

I can appreciate the desire to have one vehicle and one that is hybrid or electric. I was a longtime Toyota Tacoma fan until I moved to the Rockies full time. The thing was underpowered for those mountains and had to work hard to haul a couple ATVs. The solution is more power but what about all that gas guzzling? I repossessed my sons 2016 Civic and sent him a CRV hybrid to live in LA. Perfect car for him there.

I don’t like the idea of being 30 miles from anything offroad with an electric only at this point. I like my 450 mile range now. I’m also not going to park my truck in Denver parking garages and everything else around here. Its a full quad cab with long bed. F@ck parking this bitch downtown. My truck isn’t a garage queen for trips to Costco. I use it.

22 Ram 1500 5.7 Hemi with 3.92 rear end. It will haul any toys and firewood up here no issues…but 17mpg
16 Honda Civic roller skate. Gets into any parking spot,45mpg, win win

I don’t see a solution today for one vehicle that can really do it all. Paying the extra insurance a year is easily recouped by gas savings. Plus the Honda hauls ass over the mountains to Vegas.

 

[DirtyTIVA]

https://insideevs.com/news/606217/watch-rivian-r1t-drive-into-idaho-bear-lake-launch-boat/amp/

 

[buzzmonkey]

It hasn’t moved there yet…imho as an auto dealer myself, we will see in 10 years bc it will take that long to get MAYBE 50% new vehicle EV sales.

I didn’t even mention the mess of mining minerals and recycling batteries.

Yeah, I suspect we'll have 50% adoption by 2035, but anything before that is probably a pipe dream unless there's some major breakthrough in battery design. There are some promising technologies in the lab, but nothing I'm aware of that could be scaled to production in under 10 years.

 

[buzzmonkey]

It also matters where that 50% is coming from. It doesn't matter if Granny trades in her ICE but she only uses it to go the grocery store and church on Sunday. We need the commuters and long haul truckers in green vehicles. If we concentrate there, that 50% of vehicles could reduce 80% of the emissions.

 

[doublebooyah85]

It also matters where that 50% is coming from. It doesn't matter if Granny trades in her ICE but she only uses it to go the grocery store and church on Sunday. We need the commuters and long haul truckers in green vehicles. If we concentrate there, that 50% of vehicles could reduce 80% of the emissions.

It’s my belief the manufacturers and government isn’t pushing EVs for green lol. There’s underlying benefits for the both of them. Higher profit margins for the factory, less warranty exposure and more regulation/control for the gov.

You sound very educated on the matter, would love to know your opinion on the mining of the battery and the inability to recycle them. How will we overcome those problems? (I’m not being a smartass, genuinely asking for more info)!

 

[allforcharity]

Ford has tried to go aggressively in the EV market and it’s frankly bombed.

I don’t know if EV will be the future necessarily (5-10 years from now even). It still requires a fossil fuel (how is electricity made lol).

I have an electric Ford Focus. They should have ironed out the kinks and aggressively marketed the hell out of it to take away market share from Nissan, but they didn't. Their loss. But my car is still wonderful, does what it needs to do even with limited range (real world 75mi/230km), but it's held up very well over past 9.5 years and I've saved a ton on gas and maintenance.

You don't need to burn gas or goal to generate electricity. Much of the world gets it from hydro, wind, and nuclear power. In my area it's mostly hydro, very low cost for end consumer.

 

[raynmanas]

i am intrigued by the 2024 (allegedly) electric tacoma:

https://www.caranddriver.com/toyota/tacoma-electric

 

[doublebooyah85]

I have an electric Ford Focus. They should have ironed out the kinks and aggressively marketed the hell out of it to take away market share from Nissan, but they didn't. Their loss. But my car is still wonderful, does what it needs to do even with limited range (real world 75mi/230km), but it's held up very well over past 9.5 years and I've saved a ton on gas and maintenance.

You don't need to burn gas or goal to generate electricity. Much of the world gets it from hydro, wind, and nuclear power. In my area it's mostly hydro, very low cost for end consumer.

From my understanding it appears we are losing nuclear power plants not growing them and over 60% of electricity in the USA is produced by fossil fuels…and again, the mining and recycle of batteries is not “green”.

 

[DoubleEagle]

15 million new cars sold a year. 500,000 + last year were plug in OR hybrid version of EV.

Tesla sold 930,000 EV's in 2021.

 

[doublebooyah85]

Tesla sold 930,000 EV's in 2021.

Probably global?

400,000 battery powered vehicles in USA last year

https://www.thedetroitbureau.com/2022/01/ev-sales-jumped-83-in-u-s-in-2021-tesla-still-on-top/

 

[buzzmonkey]

It’s my belief the manufacturers and government isn’t pushing EVs for green lol. There’s underlying benefits for the both of them. Higher profit margins for the factory, less warranty exposure and more regulation/control for the gov.

You sound very educated on the matter, would love to know your opinion on the mining of the battery and the inability to recycle them. How will we overcome those problems? (I’m not being a smartass, genuinely asking for more info)!

Even with the polluting factors related to mining the battery materials, an EV is still at least 50% less emission polluting than an ICE vehicle. If we can improve the process of making the batteries to reduce or remove the hard to refine materials that number improves. As we improve our power grid that pollution goes down per vehicle.

I'm with you that we've shit the bed as a country when it comes to nuclear. We should have 40-50% of our electricity from nuclear at this point. Instead it's a little under 20%

As for recycling, we can do it but we're not. Not enough at least. But there are companies pioneering new strategies. Redwood Materials is one of them. There's value in those materials so auto manufacturers like Tesla and Volvo are investing heavily in helping develop them. Are we there yet? No, but we're on our way.

Luckily, the batteries will last in the cars for about a decade or more, losing on average about 1.5% of their capacity each year. Then they can live for another decade to 15 years as grid storage for dynamic energy sources like wind and solar. So roughly 20-25 years from manufacture to the need to recycle them.

 

[Taghkanic]

Here’s a Kelly Blue Book roundup of some anticipated EV pickups:

https://www.kbb.com/car-news/future-electric-trucks/

Most of these are from major producers, but I expect the launch dates and availability will slide quite a lot. Some of the more obscure ones may never materialize at all.

The Tacoma electric seems the most likely to actually materialize and fit my needs, but they have no definite launch date… Might not be until 2025. Jeep also has made noises about a Gladiator EV or PHEV.

 

[Highli99]

From my understanding it appears we are losing nuclear power plants not growing them and over 60% of electricity in the USA is produced by fossil fuels…and again, the mining and recycle of batteries is not “green”.

Yep, I’m still very intrigued by these coal powered trucks. Mainly because I think the Frunk on the F150 is amazballs