Edge Alignment on Ceramics...

Mental Nomad

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Am curious how good - or rather, how imperfect - the edge alignment is on ceramics from the various vendors.

I'm really sensitive to the alignment when the pattern even suggests edge spots. I know some people don't care - Royal Yaks are very popular, and I've never seen a photo of them with anything other than non-aligned edges... but I inwardly make a "yuk" face every time I see those edge spots not lining up to the faces.

Am I alone, here?
 

jbutler

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most people share your opinions about edgespot alignment in ceramics and many express that they'd rather simply choose a design that doesn't attempt to mimic the appearance of a clay chip with edgespots such that they need to appear aligned.

i've seen chips from every major ceramic manufacturer and i've never seen alignment that would meet my (admittedly extremely high) standards. the best i've seen was from CPC. their standards 39mm samples i received are remarkably close. i would say off the top of my head that as few as 20% of the samples were off and even those only by fractions of a millimeter. i'll post pics when i get home if i have a moment.

personally, that tiny difference is too much for me, so my favorite ceramic sets almost always avoid alignment attempts.
 

BGinGA

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If ordering aligned edges, I would always order plenty of extras (and throw out the really badly aligned ones). And I'd never order unaligned edges on any design that had artwork depicting any kind of edge spot/design.

FWIW, PGI's publicly-stated tolerances for aligned edges are much less stringent than what I've seen actually produced by ABC or OWPS.

OWPS did a really good job with the recent GCOP extras order - the 46mm 8V and 43mm 618 'spotted' chips both had aligned edges. The submitted artwork has a lot to do with the success rate, too.

th_imagejpg1.jpg
 
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Tommy

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Not having any edge-spots on the face is OK with me. More room for your artwork too.

pcf_pgi_chips2.jpg


I'm plan on doing a PCF cash set using the same textured blanks that the PCF/PGI chips are on.
 

CdnBeerLover

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I have a few Yaks, and the lack of alignment doesn't bother me. The "white ring" at the edge breaks it up, and I suspect that is why. If the face graphic went to the edge, the effect would be more pronounced and noticable.
 

TexRex

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I just did some ceramics that have edge spots, but used a design where the top of the chips did not. Thus, there were no corresponding spots to try to line up. If I were to do another set of ceramics, I'd do the same thing.
 

Mental Nomad

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Not having any edge-spots on the face is OK with me. More room for your artwork too.

Agreed... but sadly, I'm tempted to do artwork that wraps around the edge to both faces, which will still require alignment.

I've seen some Dropa Discs from Sunfly in pictures that look aligned, but I've seen others that aren't - so I'm not sure if they just picked out accidental alignments for the pictures. In a design like the Dropa, the alignment doesn't need to be perfect, but it still needs to be pretty good.
 

Tommy

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Agreed... but sadly, I'm tempted to do artwork that wraps around the edge to both faces, which will still require alignment.

I've seen some Dropa Discs from Sunfly in pictures that look aligned, but I've seen others that aren't - so I'm not sure if they just picked out accidental alignments for the pictures. In a design like the Dropa, the alignment doesn't need to be perfect, but it still needs to be pretty good.

Can you post a pic of those?
 

Mental Nomad

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I have a few Yaks, and the lack of alignment doesn't bother me. The "white ring" at the edge breaks it up, and I suspect that is why. If the face graphic went to the edge, the effect would be more pronounced and noticable.

Which brings up another question - I've seen people mention that putting a white ring on the design of the face protects you from eventual wear; if the rim wears down, eventually you'll expose white blank, but incorporating a white ring into the design hides the effect.

I've seen this on some casino ceramics with excessive wear showing a white ring, but is this a realistic concern for a home set? My gut says a home set will never see the kind of action it takes to create that level of wear, but I'm not sure. Even in casino chips, I've only seen it on high-volume chips, even in the casinos, like the $2.50 and $5 Chipco chips used at Trump Plaza, AC. Actually, on second thought, I don't they ever did higher-denomination ceramics...

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Tommy, here are some Sunfly and non-Sunfly Dropas; the first has a completely different edge spot pattern to avoid the problem. I'm sure I've seen (but can't find) the number-spot clearly not aligned with the number on a face, too.

1000 Other.JPGdropa_1000.jpgDropa_Discs_Ceramic_Poker_Chips.jpgdropa2.jpg
 

BGinGA

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I've seen some Dropa Discs from Sunfly in pictures that look aligned, but I've seen others that aren't - so I'm not sure if they just picked out accidental alignments for the pictures.

here are some Sunfly and non-Sunfly Dropas; the first has a completely different edge spot pattern to avoid the problem. I'm sure I've seen (but can't find) the number-spot clearly not aligned with the number on a face, too.

All Dropa Discs are manufactured by Sun-Fly (either directly or via third-party order). By default, the Dropa Discs are not aligned. Any pics showing alignment are either custom-made or accidental, unless they have recently changed their process.


I've seen people mention that putting a white ring on the design of the face protects you from eventual wear; if the rim wears down, eventually you'll expose white blank, but incorporating a white ring into the design hides the effect.

I've seen this on some casino ceramics with excessive wear showing a white ring...

The white ring on Chipco ceramics (the overwhelming majority of casino ceramics) is there by design, to protect the surface artwork. The ring is actually slightly thicker than the face of the chips, allowing the chips to 'stack' primarily on the outer ring surface instead of rubbing against the artwork. Not all ceramic blanks have this feature.

PGI has indicated that they can print artwork on that outer ring. No idea how long it would take to wear it down in a typical home game.
 

Poker Zombie

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I've had custom ceramics made that I purchased through Custom Casino Chips . com They aren't a sponsor, so no link, but you can type the address yourself. Their alignment was pretty close to spot on - I doubt that Jbutler would have any qualms with the alignment. I guess it depends on the strength of the jeweler's loupe.

2014-12-17 17.52.25.jpg

I've not known anybody else to get chips through this dealer, and as far as I know, they had them made elsewhere and they are just resellers/middlemen. I cannot say if this quality is their norm, or if it was a fluke. I designed the edge-spots myself, calculating Pi down further than any non-geek would ever dream.
 

k9dr

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I had Sal at Old West Poker Supplies make these with aligned edge spots to go with my Aztar tourney set - they turned out great.




 

CdnBeerLover

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Which brings up another question - I've seen people mention that putting a white ring on the design of the face protects you from eventual wear; if the rim wears down, eventually you'll expose white blank, but incorporating a white ring into the design hides the effect.

I've seen this on some casino ceramics with excessive wear showing a white ring, but is this a realistic concern for a home set? My gut says a home set will never see the kind of action it takes to create that level of wear, but I'm not sure.

Well, I haven't seem any issues with either my cash or tourney set, which see use once every 1-2 months. I do have some chips that I shuffle every few days for about an hour (habit while web surfing, etc) that I bought in Sept 2013, and they are starting to show some wear (see attached). If you take a look at the edges of these $1, they are starting to show wear, and it is next to the white ring. I don't see any issues with the inner faces of the chips.

20141217_192741 (Medium).jpg

So, will they show wear? Eventually. But it depends on the amount of use. These are spares, so I'm not too concerned about wearing them out. I haven't done the same experiment with any of my other samples.
 

jbutler

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The alignment is even better than I remembered. These are the hybrids, but I believe the process for alignment is the same so it should be representative of CPC's ability to align.

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1418865565.483717.jpg
 
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The sample set of CPC I have are spot on alignment with 2 of the chips. As the jbutler picture looks. If anything the outer ring might be slightly larger then the face edge spot. I would be very happy with a ceramic and this aligned edge spot.
 

Mental Nomad

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Those look great, Zombie. Those are typical? Not cherry-picked for the photo?

Color me impressed.

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Very nice, jbutler.

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Interesting - thanks, CdnBeerLover - thanks. Though it's an hour every couple of days, they've still only been around for a year. So it matters, it seems.
 

jbutler

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I've had custom ceramics made that I purchased through Custom Casino Chips . com They aren't a sponsor, so no link, but you can type the address yourself. Their alignment was pretty close to spot on - I doubt that Jbutler would have any qualms with the alignment. I guess it depends on the strength of the jeweler's loupe.

yeah i def wouldn't have any problems with those. bang up job for sure.
 
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