eBay Selling - Refund Issue (HELP NEEDED)

ReallyGoodUsername

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Thanks again, going to pull down most of the info on the thread until I can talk it out with him. Based on his latest posts its clear he put together a jack set and bought this, decided he liked the jack set more despite the higher cost and is returning this now claiming it was more worn than he thought....

Going to store the thread stuff here if you don't mind :)

Sold a set of Aransas Queen chips on eBay and the buyer is asking for a refund and citing the reason as "arrived damaged".

Note: I'm assuming with eBay's 'the buyer is always right no matter what' policy I'm SOL in general but I'm hoping to use this thread for some guidance on the particular and for general venting.

Facts:
- 11/4 - 12/10: A dozen in a half messages between a potential buyer and me including whether I'd ship FPO, whether he could add additional racks, and asking for more pictures as he saw "a few flea bites". I responded that there are flea bites and provided additional pictures (see below for the photos sent of the chips they received).

- 12/9: We decide on a price for the exact breakdown he wants, I resist the item to update the specific denomination request.

- 12/10: He buys the item and the chips are sent via my normal bomb-proof packaging (double USPS MFRB, Warneke boxes padded with multiple layers of bubblewrap to allow no additional movement, 100 chips to each Warneke box, all new boxes that were then taped to ensure they couldn't open up accidentally.

- 12/20-12/24: delivered sometime between 12/20-12/24 (hard to tell with the details USPS tracking provided (see photos below).

- 12/30: Receive a message from the buyer "Love the chips thank you for putting this together. I only wish I could make a tournament set as well, shipping was surprisingly fast thank you again!"

- 1/3: Receive a message from the buyer "Sorry to email you again but I think I was a little premature on the last email. After looking at the ones and the rest fives I thought I could clean some of the fives but there was no joy and the majority of the ones are in pretty rough shape. I think I’m gonna have to request a return if possible. I really do appreciate all your effort in making this happen and I do apologize. You are a great seller and if you come across another set in the future maybe we can work together again. Thank you again."

- 1/3: Received a refund request. "Reason: Arrived damaged" "Comments: Multiple chips and cracks in the $1 and $5 chips and minor chips and gouges in the $25 chips. Black discoloration on the $5 chips."

- 1/9: Deadline for me to respond to him for either a) Accept the return b) Give a full refund c) Offer a partial refund d) Send the buyer a message

1578090236151.png 1578090246573.png 5F690DB7-F8EE-4211-AC0D-F326056F23EA.jpeg B7ED642F-7B9E-47A5-AA52-67DE042F5F2D.png

First Impressions (venting :)):
- Obviously I'm a bit annoyed given how much time and effort I put in with this buyer only to have them turn around and ask for a return.
- I'm slightly annoyed about being out of ~$30 in shipping fees to him and back.
- I'm more annoyed that the reason is he didn't like the condition despite the fact it was clearly provided to him via messages and pictures.
- I'm most annoyed that he is trying to get a refund via "Arrived Damage" (since they arrived in the same exact condition as the chips pictured) and that apparently I could receive a "Defect" on my eBay account. To boot, I have a 14 day refund policy so even if they arrived to him on 12/20 (could have been as late or later than 12/24 - see photos) my understanding is he could have returned it due to "buyers remorse" which wouldn't hurt my account in anyway and still gotten him his money back).

Questions:
1) Is there anyway I don't have to refund this or could force him to accept a partial refund? Reading up on it I doubt it. I read I could challenge it but even then I'd likely lose and may end up with him keeping the chips, me still having to refund him, and a "Defect" on my account.
2) Can he cancel/change his request from "arrived damaged" to "buyers remorse" under the 14 day refund policy on the item? Obviously this would be tricky because I'd be relying on him to do it in the necessary amount of time before eBay steps in (1/8).
3) If he won't budge and I need to refund him, how do I challenge his reason aka a "Defect" on my seller account? I believe I can only do this until after I've received the item back? Online message boards noted this involves calling up eBay within a strict 3-day window (of receiving the item?) and provide evidence that would show the buyers actual reason for returning is "buyers remorse". Per the boards this would be the buyer saying they "bought the wrong model" or something of the like.

My planned next steps:
- I've accepted I'm likely going to have to refund in full and take the hit on the shipping.
- I'm planning on reaching back out to the buyer and asking them questions that whose responds might help me fight the "Defect" "Arrived Damage" bullshit. This would include asking (better wording but the gist):
+ If the package arrived damaged/was the packing insufficient?
+ Did the item delivered differ from the pictures provided? If so how?
+ Please provide more detail into the "cracks" noted in the damage.
- Not sure how he'd respond in a way that doesn't basically admit he got what he paid for but we'll see.
- Calling up eBay on Monday and going over the whole situation with them (prior to making any action on his claim).

Any help, advice, or sharing of shit stories to make me feel better would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for reading this long post!
 
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Josh Kifer

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So, the one time I had this occur to me. I can tell you what I did and what happened. It may or may not help.

I got into nice custom boots. I have a few pair for slacks, and they rotate a smidge like chips. I was selling them on eBay. Sold a very nice pair for 600. Now, boots have sizes, but based on the last, they can all fit differently. I'm a 10EEE in one brand and a 12C in others. Also stated, no refunds.

I noted in my ad, know your size, and gave relative sizes. He bought them, ten days later he says that they hurt his pinkie toe. Demanded a refund and said I misrepresented the size. I deny it and state he has buyers remorse. He proceeded to do the eBay route. They denied the refund based on my ad. He did a PayPal dispute, they removed the funds from my bank account. After going thru there process, they sided with me but withheld my funds for 4 months.

So. Know that if you dispute, you actually could win this based on the buyers remorse clause. But, this could lag out for a period and have money in the air.

Food for thought, but not the exact situation.
 

Eloe2000

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I have had so many bad experiences with eBay buyers and the eBay policies. I even know people who will casually mention "oh I bought this thing on eBay, but I am not too into it so I am just going to send it back since I have only been using it for a month". eBay users are so casual about the abusive of the system and it sucks. You really don't have any real recourse in my experience. In these instances I have bit the bullet and just directly asked if I could give some small partial refund to make them happy. Because when eBay forces the return you will be out shipping costs in both directions, risk a negative review, and also just have to deal with the hassle of relisting and shipping potentially with the same outcome again. I have just messaged the person and said something like "Look man, what can I do to make this right or are you really going to return this no matter what? I am not profiting here and I didn't intend to deceive you". Yeah it sucks... but you are pretty powerless and I hate relisting and reshipping stuff.

Unfortunately being "right" isn't going to get you anywhere, so I would just focus on trying to get to the most desirable realistic outcome.
 
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Hornet

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600 for boots? Now I don’t feel so bad about what I pay for poker chips.

Tom, that really sucks and I feel for you. I don’t have any experience dealing with this situation, but don’t assume you can’t win. I think it will take a lot of effort and tenacity though. I think the question you have to ask yourself is, is it worth the hassle to fight?
 

ReallyGoodUsername

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OP updated with the photos I provided to him (including noting that there were flea bites on the $1/$5/$25s) and the USPS tracking screenshot
 

Josh Kifer

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600 for boots? Now I don’t feel so bad about what I pay for poker chips.

Tom, that really sucks and I feel for you. I don’t have any experience dealing with this situation, but don’t assume you can’t win. I think it will take a lot of effort and tenacity though. I think the question you have to ask yourself is, is it worth the hassle to fight?
I always wanted to say I owned a pair of shell boots. But, they didn't fit me as well as I hoped. But it was fun to own for a bit. 600 is cheap for Shell too...
 

Josh Kifer

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Be careful asking for pic of “damaged” chips as he may make them damaged himself.
That's where I would shut it down and let eBay sort it. I don't trust him not to create more chaos. The emails back and forth are a prefer sample of buyers remorse.
 

horseshoez

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Tom,

My experience with eBay both as a seller and a buyer has come with mixed feelings. As a seller, take the hit on the shipping get the items back and just move on to hopefully a better buyer for them. eBay doesn’t give a shit what you have to say to them on the phone or via messages. Once they’ve made up their mind, usually in favor of the buyer, there’s no turning back. Their call and support centers are trained to tone out everything they’re told by either party and just make their decisions off what’s in front of them in their guide book. That whole company needs to be either bought out by someone else and made better or just burn to the ground for the way they operate.

Bite the shipping, call it a day and hopefully someone better will buy them from you. You also hope he ships them back packed well. If not, PM me and I’ll help you with how to recoup the money lost in damages.
 

MatB

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Tom,

My experience with eBay both as a seller and a buyer has come with mixed feelings. As a seller, take the hit on the shipping get the items back and just move on to hopefully a better buyer for them. eBay doesn’t give a shit what you have to say to them on the phone or via messages. Once they’ve made up their mind, usually in favor of the buyer, there’s no turning back. Their call and support centers are trained to tone out everything they’re told by either party and just make their decisions off what’s in front of them in their guide book. That whole company needs to be either bought out by someone else and made better or just burn to the ground for the way they operate.

Bite the shipping, call it a day and hopefully someone better will buy them from you. You also hope he ships them back packed well. If not, PM me and I’ll help you with how to recoup the money lost in damages.


I was just about to say same thing.

It sucks really, but i'd personally eat the shipping, get the items back. Done.
 

mike32

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Did buyer actually use the term “flea bites”? If so I bet they are a member here. They will certainly want to remain anonymous if so, but I suspect it’s just a case of buyer’s remorse.
 

Hornet

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Did buyer actually use the term “flea bites”? If so I bet they are a member here. They will certainly want to remain anonymous if so, but I suspect it’s just a case of buyer’s remorse.
You might do a PCF service by identifying the person if in fact you decide to issue the refund.
 
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"After looking at the ones and the rest fives I thought I could clean some of the fives but there was no joy and the majority of the ones are in pretty rough shape"

Buyers remorse.
Items did not arrive damage.
I'd offer refund only if he reimburses you for shipping and buyer pays for return shipping as well.
 

ReallyGoodUsername

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"After looking at the ones and the rest fives I thought I could clean some of the fives but there was no joy and the majority of the ones are in pretty rough shape"

Buyers remorse.
Items did not arrive damage.
I'd offer refund only if he reimburses you for shipping and buyer pays for return shipping as well.
I agree. So how does that work out though? Like actual steps? lol I only have until ⅛ to respond with something, if he slow rolls the reimbursement then I could get screwed through ebay arbitration.
 

horseshoez

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Ebitch basically acts a escrow during the process. You get the goods back and confirm they’re in the same condition, then you approve the refund and they process it for you. That’s the only time I’ll say they do something right.
 

ReallyGoodUsername

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Ebitch basically acts a escrow during the process. You get the goods back and confirm they’re in the same condition, then you approve the refund and they process it for you. That’s the only time I’ll say they do something right.
If he's saying they "arrived damaged" though and had “cracks” and I accept the refund isn't that admitting that I'm expecting to receive them back with cracks and damage even though I know they weren’t damaged when I sent them (and in all likelyhood wasn’t damaged when he received them)?
 

horseshoez

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If he's saying they "arrived damaged" though and had “cracks” and I accept the refund isn't that admitting that I'm expecting to receive them back with cracks and damage even though I know they weren’t damaged when I sent them (and in all likelyhood wasn’t damaged when he received them)?

Technically no, whatever condition he states they're in can be his own perception compared to the listing itself. What you're hoping for is this guy is at least half a douche rather than full blown douche and returns them in the exact same condition you sent them in. I would reach out to him directly and just ask him to pack them very well so they don't get damaged on the way back...or else Uncle Tony will pay him a visit lol
 

rowlin

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Sorry to hear this is happening to you. Unfortunately I can do no better than to echo what JK, Eloe, and horse have said.

From the sound of it, this buyer is abusing the benefit of the doubt given to buyers by eBay and PayPal, and this is precisely the reason I don’t sell more on eBay as a side gig.
 

FDLmold

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This is why I actively avoid selling on ebay. Between ebay, paypal, and credit cards, the process is just so seller-unfriendly. I take it as far as to join forums I have no interest in (had some old train sets, i joined a train set forum) to sell things.
 

RainmanTrail

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There is 1000% nothing you can do except to have him return the chips and issue a full refund. You'll likely have to pay for return shipping as well. That's why selling on eBay sucks. Nothing you can do about it at all. It doesn't matter one bit if you "accept returns". All the buyer has to do is say the item isn't as described and it's a done deal.
 

ReallyGoodUsername

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There is 1000% nothing you can do except to have him return the chips and issue a full refund. You'll likely have to pay for return shipping as well. That's why selling on eBay sucks. Nothing you can do about it at all. It doesn't matter one bit if you "accept returns". All the buyer has to do is say the item isn't as described and it's a done deal.
Yeah that’s all I’ve seen really. There are exceptions but with “collectibles” especially chips there’s no way to prove it unless the buyer admits it themselves. I’m just hoping there’s a way to get the return reason changed or at least get the “defect” removed from my account if the “arrived damage” reason sticks.
 

RainmanTrail

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Yeah that’s all I’ve seen really. There are exceptions but with “collectibles” especially chips there’s no way to prove it unless the buyer admits it themselves. I’m just hoping there’s a way to get the return reason changed or at least get the “defect” removed from my account if the “arrived damage” reason sticks.

Nothing really hurts you unless he leaves you negative feedback. Don't worry about someone just returning something for it being "not as described"
 
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