Dragon's Poker Room - Initial Mockup (1 Viewer)

PlaidDragon

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--- ( POST 37 has the FINAL mockup) ---

Hello all.

In the next month or three I'll be ordering a custom set of CPC's. I precisely know the denoms and quantities I need but am interested in your opinions regarding color and edge-spot design. I'm not ready to contact anyone for custom inlay design yet so have just thrown the denoms onto the graphic below for reference.

A little explanation/background:
I have need of a set that will satisfy up to 16 seats in a tourney, as well as up to 8 seats in a non-tourney and more whimsical "limit----dealer-calls-the-game" kind of environment.

The denoms of 5, 25, & 100 will be the most numerous in the lot by far and will satisfy any tourney needs.

In addition to the above, the denoms of 10, 20, and 50 will help fulfill the latter requirement for our casual non-tourney games. I know.... they're weird.

Given the dual-role capabilities of this set there will be no dollar sign or cent sign (or pound, euro, yen, won etc ;) ) shown on the inlay.

My budget pretty much dictates that I stay within the L1 to L3 range of CPC's pricing for the bulk of my chips. My 500's and 1000's in the pic are L5 given I need them to stand out when such high values hit the table. I won't need that many of them so the price won't be a big impact.

So... here they are. My goal was to avoid duplication of colors as much as possible while advancing the edge spot design every two denoms.


ConGlomDenomTmp.png


What do you all think?

Additional question: I note a lot of other posts offering samples. Is that a common thing on PCF? How many usually... 10-20'ish? If I didn't provide any due to budget constraints would you all be offended?

OH.... and... if there's any similarity between the design of my own 100 and the Paulson Classic 100 (which is one of my most favorite stock chips EVER), that is PURELY COINCIDENCE! ;)
 
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I'll just be honest out of the gate and say I'm having a hard time with the denoms. I don't get it.

Would you mind giving us a breakdown of the chips for the tournament and the ones for the "whimsical" dealer's choice game? Please please tell me that for some kind of reason the 10, 20 and 50 are for the dealer's choice game, and not part of the progression for the tournament set.
 
I note a lot of other posts offering samples. Is that a common thing on PCF?
Fairly common, yes.


How many usually... 10-20'ish?
Your choice, really.


If I didn't provide any due to budget constraints would you all be offended?
"Budget constraints" should never be a reason to not order samples - have us pre-pay, and then they're in your budget.


the denoms of 10, 20, and 50 will help fulfill the latter requirement for our casual non-tourney games.
I wouldn't call them weird, but I might call them unnecessary. If you're playing limit poker, you really only need 1-2 denominations - one regular chip, and one 10x-25x multiplier chip used for rebuys. Additionally, you probably only need a total of two varieties of chips ever & that can be used for ALL limits. Want to play 20c/40c limit? Cool, make the base chip worth either 5 or 10c. Want to play 40c/80c? Cool, make the base chip worth 10c or 20c. Want to play $1/$2? Cool, make the base chip worth 25c or 50c.

What I'm saying is to get two non-denominated varieties - one for your base, and one for your rebuys. For an 8-player max game (a good max number of players for limit poker, btw), then order 800-1600 base chips and a rack or two of rebuy chips. My preference is 150 base chips per player, but YMMV. Regardless, a set like that will cover literally any limit stakes you want to play. It also allows your 25 chip to go with a 314 spot pattern and still keep to bumping up the spots every two denoms in your tourney set.

The spots themselves are mostly okay, although the one thing that jumps out at me is the light blue spot next to the light green spot on the 500. Those two colors will blend in together for a lot of people - there's just not enough contrast between the two. I might also encourage you to switch the spots on the hundo. If you like the Paulson 100, there's nothing wrong with making a tribute to it, but man oh man is it common. From a more objective perspective, though, you have a light blue spot on both the hundred and the 500, and the one on the 500 is already problematic. Something on the 500 definitely should be changed; whether you change it on the hundo is a matter of taste. Remember, others may not like it, but others aren't paying for it. Get what you want.
 
I'll just be honest out of the gate and say I'm having a hard time with the denoms. I don't get it.

Would you mind giving us a breakdown of the chips for the tournament and the ones for the "whimsical" dealer's choice game? Please please tell me that for some kind of reason the 10, 20 and 50 are for the dealer's choice game, and not part of the progression for the tournament set.

The non-tourney games are 5¢ ante; 50¢ max bet; with a limit of one bet and three raises per round. It's a long-standing event with a core of players who've known each other for over 25 years. The chips we employ now are are set of custom hot-stamped 6-stripe chips that have these same denoms as all those pictured in the original post. In our games the 10s and 50s get heavy use... the 20s are just for convenience and variety.

Yes.... we could do without the odd denoms, but why should we? :D

For our larger hold em tourneys the 10/20/50 won't be employed at all; thus why the quantities of those chips will be so few.

Non-tourney Breakdown ($20 buy-in for up to 8 players):
5 - 20
10 - 10
20 - 10
25 - 16
50 - 10
100 - 7
(up to 16000 in play)

Hold Em Breakdown ($20 buy-in for up to 16 players):
5 - 20
25 - 12
100 - 11
500 - 1
(up to 32000 in play) (initial blinds 5/10 --- 200 total big blinds at start)

Quantities I'll be ordering that satisfy the above:
5 - 320
10 - 80
20 - 80
25 - 200
50 - 80
100 - 180
500 - 40
1000 - 20 (1000 total chips in order)
 
I swear I read your first post carefully... Oh well.

All the same, I get that tournament structures are typically built around 25-50 or 100-200 and up, so 25-100-500-1000 are common denoms, but the truth is that you don't need to build a tournament blind structure around those denoms. If you're going with non-denom chips all around you can start your tournament blinds at 1-2, or 10-20, or 5-10. It won't hurt a thing. As long as you don't plan on using your chips for a tournament with a cash game going at the same time you can make your set flexible enough to cover both easily while cutting out at least three of those denoms.

Now if you want all those denoms there's nothing wrong with that, but my preference, generally, would be to have a larger number of each denom, so I'd avoid having so many that are so close together.
 
Oh, and If I was going to have what is essentially a tournament set and a cash set I'd just make them completely independent from one another. Independant progression, different inlays, etc..
 
Non-tourney Breakdown ($20 buy-in for up to 8 players):
5 - 20
10 - 10
20 - 10
25 - 16
50 - 10
100 - 7
(up to 16000 in play)

This may be the most screwed up thing I've ever seen. Part of me really wants to think it through, but my rational side is telling me to leave it alone. I'm sure you guys have fun. Enjoy your new chips!
 
This may be the most screwed up thing I've ever seen. Part of me really wants to think it through, but my rational side is telling me to leave it alone. I'm sure you guys have fun. Enjoy your new chips!

Yeah, you mention budget constraints, and then order wonky denominations that could be easily eliminated. Change is a good thing. get the right chips on the table and teach people that you don't need 7 different chips for a cash game.

If you are playing 5 cent antes, get more nickels. Dump the 10. Using the 20 and 25 in the same dealers choice game seems silly. at least you use the 25 in the tournament.

Also sounds like you buy in for a set amount, but the chips are worth face value in the non-tourney breakdown??

Most "cash" (non-tournament) games start players with 3 denominations of chips.. or maybe 2 pending buy-in.

So many questions
 
The spots themselves are mostly okay, although the one thing that jumps out at me is the light blue spot next to the light green spot on the 500. Those two colors will blend in together for a lot of people - there's just not enough contrast between the two. I might also encourage you to switch the spots on the hundo. If you like the Paulson 100, there's nothing wrong with making a tribute to it, but man oh man is it common. From a more objective perspective, though, you have a light blue spot on both the hundred and the 500, and the one on the 500 is already problematic. Something on the 500 definitely should be changed; whether you change it on the hundo is a matter of taste. Remember, others may not like it, but others aren't paying for it. Get what you want.

Thank you! This is the exact kind of feedback I was wanting.

I see what you're saying regarding the 500 and agree that it warrants a change. I'm wanting each denom to have a distinctive look so as to be dissimilar to any of the others. I'll get to work and figure out some better color choices for it.

Fortunately, I have a color sample from CPC on order (I think arriving today), so that should help me avoid any OMG-why-did-I-pick-that issues regarding color.

Regarding the "Paulson knock off 100": Yeah... I'm certain I wouldn't be the first or the last to fashion a chip like this ;) If I WERE to change it to something else it'd be easy given just about any edge spot color combo looks good on a black chip. I'll think about it. One of my initial designs for the 100 had a green and dayglo green spot that looked halfway decent.

Again, I sincerely appreciate the feedback.
 
If you have 5's, you do not need 10's. I have left out 5's in the tourneys I host and go from 25/25 blinds up, so the 5 and 20 you dont need for the tourney either.


Just make sure it makes sense to you, we all have our own ideas, but also listen to the advice around here we have hosted a lot of games.


Good luck, I do like your color scheme BTW, but the break down is interesting..Need more info on the games you play.

P5woody, J5, chipjoker, and a few others around here can do graphics.
 
I sincerely apologize to you all and should have been more clear in my OP. My intent was not to waste your time or cause confusion and/or consternation regarding the odd denominations.

My primary purpose in posting was to procure feedback regarding my color and edge spot choices. I didn't spell that out exactly so, again, I apologize.
 
My intent was not to waste your time or cause confusion and/or consternation regarding the odd denominations.
I don't think you've wasted anyone's time. What you're receiving - even though you didn't expressly ask for it - is the collective wisdom that comes from a wide variety of histories and experiences. That's not to say that some games can't run smoothly with non-standard or non-necessary denominations, but that they have either caused confusion or slowdowns in games, or have been found to be unnecessary or a waste after people have ordered them.

You have experience hosting a long-running game, and if having all sorts of denoms on the table works for you and your crew, none of us can tell you that it *isn't* working. We are a bunch of chip and poker enthusiasts, though, with gads of hosting and playing experience ourselves, and you posted a thread for feedback. We'd be remiss if we didn't offer feedback on chips/denominations that we perceived could be unnecessary, problematic, or otherwise wasteful. In truth, we want you to make the best decisions possible and get some great chips! That's really all you're seeing. Some of the suggestions offered are simply because we believe you might be able to save some money and/or run a smoother/faster game. Ultimately, what's "best" is up to you. If 20's, 25's, 50's, 5's, pi, or molar-denominated chips work for your game, then pull that trigger. It's your game, your set, and your money.

Oh, and if you do go with the 10, 20, 50, etc, I'm definitely in for samples should you make them available.
 
OP,

One thing the conventional wisdom of having chip value progression 4-5x the previous chip does is to make it pretty easy for other players to know the size of the bet by looking at the chips, and not relying on a count plus verbal confirmation. It really helps avoid confusion and speed things up. I like hands in tournament poker to go as quickly and smoothly as possible. I'm usually the dedicated dealer on whatever table I'm on and I also want to make my job as easy as possible along with minimizing the chance that I'll make a mistake.

I'd hate to try doing the math with the set of chips you've got going. As someone who acts as dedicated dealer a lot I'm often amazed at how hard it is for your average player to do the math and how many rely on me to explain how many chips they need to make a call or a raise, etc..

To each their own and I can also see some appeal in getting a few of a lot of different chips as opposed to a lot of a few chips, but that certainly wouldn't be my preference.

Just look at our U.S. currency, dimes, $10 bills and $50 bills are rare (and a $25 bill doesn't exist, can you even imagine if there was a $20 and a $25 bill?)... retailers don't stock their tills with them, and for good reason.

Your color and spot pattern progression is good. My one comment on that would be that there is a blue edge spot on the 50, the 100 and the 500, where for the rest of the set there is more contrast on the edge spots going from one chip to the next. And then you have a purple edge spot on the 1000 where the base color of the 500 is purple and you don't do that anywhere else in the set.
 
I sincerely apologize to you all and should have been more clear in my OP. My intent was not to waste your time or cause confusion and/or consternation regarding the odd denominations.

My primary purpose in posting was to procure feedback regarding my color and edge spot choices. I didn't spell that out exactly so, again, I apologize.

You have not WASTED anyone's time, as Psypher said some of us have spent money on denoms that we did NOT need and ended up being a waist of money..

We know how to minimize chips and denoms and use them dual purpose, and maximize your play ability...No disrespect on the way you do it, if it works then run it..


We encourage you to here our thoughts, take them or leave them, besides we like to talk CHIPS....
 
I know you're not looking for breakdown advice. However my experience has shown me that a proper breakdown can allow me to spend more money on fewer chips. As a result, I utilize small sets of nice chips. Ignoring the general consensus that you don't want to mix your cash chips with tourney chips for security purposes... and understanding that you cash game is a 5c ante, 10c -50c spread limit game... and that people like to bet with the 50c chips when the max bet is made... Here is my suggestion:
Cash Set (8 players):
100 x 5c---> used for antes only
100 x 10c--->workhorse
100 x 50c--->workhorse
20 x 500c ($5)---> this is used in the cash set for rebuys and to ensure the bank is large enough
total: 16500c

Tourney Set (16 players):
240 x T5 (same as cash 5c)
220 x T25
180 x T100
40 x T500 (same as cash 500c)
total: T44700
tourney starting stack of 15/13/11/1 (T2000 = 200BB)

____________
This is a total of 880 total chips.

Just food for thought. By getting rid of some of the less functional chips, you can save money or go more elaborate. Also, there is just an overlap of 120 chips between the two sets. You could very easily break this into two stand alone sets and stay in your 1000 chip budget and use most of the colors that you have already mocked up.
 
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I really like the way your mock ups look.

If I were ordering these as a custom tournament set, I'd make the 20 & 10 chips into 5000 & 25000, respectively, and would ditch the black chip altogether in favor of using the gray chip as 100.

Boom, done, easy peasy. Book it.

Unless you're not into that. In which case they are your chips and design, so by all means go with what you want or will use and enjoy most.
 
The non-tourney games are 5¢ ante; 50¢ max bet; with a limit of one bet and three raises per round. It's a long-standing event with a core of players who've known each other for over 25 years. The chips we employ now are are set of custom hot-stamped 6-stripe chips that have these same denoms as all those pictured in the original post. In our games the 10s and 50s get heavy use... the 20s are just for convenience and variety.

Yes.... we could do without the odd denoms, but why should we? :D

For our larger hold em tourneys the 10/20/50 won't be employed at all; thus why the quantities of those chips will be so few.

Non-tourney Breakdown ($20 buy-in for up to 8 players):
5 - 20
10 - 10
20 - 10
25 - 16
50 - 10
100 - 7
(up to 16000 in play)

Hold Em Breakdown ($20 buy-in for up to 16 players):
5 - 20
25 - 12
100 - 11
500 - 1
(up to 32000 in play) (initial blinds 5/10 --- 200 total big blinds at start)

Quantities I'll be ordering that satisfy the above:
5 - 320
10 - 80
20 - 80
25 - 200
50 - 80
100 - 180
500 - 40
1000 - 20 (1000 total chips in order)


The 5 and the 10 are almost exactly what I use for my cash games - only my 5's are $5 and my 10s are $1 - the one difference is I have white spots on my 5s and I think the yellow spots are just regular yellow, but the main colors are Mandarin red and retro blue and I love them! Here's a photo to give you an idea how they look.

[UNSET].png
 
Your lower denoms (5, 10, 20, 25) and 1000 don't speak to me, but the 500 and 100 are cool and the 500 is very, very nice. Lots of light blue in all of them, though, so not sure how well they, or the rest of your chips would look together.

The chips in post #18 are awesome (I think I have the same exact $5), so I'd consider seeing if those colors worked for you.
 
I know you're not looking for breakdown advice. However my experience has shown me that a proper breakdown can allow me to spend more money on fewer chips. As a result, I utilize small sets of nice chips. Ignoring the general consensus that you don't want to mix your cash chips with tourney chips for security purposes... and understanding that you cash game is a 5c ante, 10c -50c spread limit game... and that people like to bet with the 50c chips when the max bet is made... Here is my suggestion:
Cash Set (8 players):
100 x 5c---> used for antes only
100 x 10c--->workhorse
100 x 50c--->workhorse
20 x 500c ($5)---> this is used in the cash set for rebuys and to ensure the bank is large enough
total: 16500c

Tourney Set (16 players):
240 x T5 (same as cash 5c)
220 x T25
180 x T100
40 x T500 (same as cash 500c)
total: T44700
tourney starting stack of 15/13/11/1 (T2000 = 200BB)

____________
This is a total of 880 total chips.

Just food for thought. By getting rid of some of the less functional chips, you can save money or go more elaborate. Also, there is just an overlap of 120 chips between the two sets. You could very easily break this into two stand alone sets and stay in your 1000 chip budget and use most of the colors that you have already mocked up.

You propose an excellent compromise; thank you! I ran the numbers you suggested through my spreadsheet and everything looks good.

How are the colors and spots of the new and improved mockup?

ConGlom2.png


Any color issues here?

I'm not sure I'm happy with the appearance of the 100.

-- EDIT --
I DO like the color combo on Chris's retro blue $1 chips on post 18. I'm motivated to alter my 10 to match. :D
 
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You may need another rack of 10s though. My proposal eliminated a lot of 20s/25s.

Now on to the colors. I really liked your old 50 and 500.


When someone needs a rebuy in our cash games we'll just give a big-stack player 500's in exchange for his small chips; thus I'm thinking your initial count of 10's is good.

Starting stacks for the $20 buy in would would be:

5 - 16
10 - 12
25 - 16
50 - 12
100 - 8

...perfectly fine.

Thank you for the comments on the 50 and 500.

I'm really thinking I don't like the 100 as-is and am open to suggestions.

Some potential alternatives:
Hundreds.png
 
Hello again.

Using Shaggy's numbers from post 15 (880 total chips) and input on colors from Chris M and others I've come up with this:

ConGlom3.png


How do these colors/spots seem to you all?

Regarding the 1000's: I'll potentially throw them in if CPC is fine with only producing 20. This would bring the total order to a nice, round 900 chips. If they won't do that few of a single denom I'll just eliminate it. There have been occasions where our hold em tourneys get to 500/1000 blinds at heads-up so some 1000's would be a convenience factor.

I went charcoal on the 100's given it was mentioned in another thread that this might look better if one is intending to go with black inlays (which I am).

My CPC color sample has been absolutely invaluable. Seeing the colors next to each other for real and up close is much better than just using the online designer.

Within the next week or three I'll need to start thinking about inlay design and contact one of the resources you all suggested.

I sincerely appreciate everyone's input thus far.
 
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You know, if you designed a 250 chip, then you have two separate progressions for tourneys
5-25-100-500
10-50-250-1000
This is kinda what I did with my ceramic set many years ago
 
...if CPC is fine with only producing 20.
I have a 300 ct set with 4 denoms from CPC and I only have a barrel of the highest value chip. To do this, I bought 25 extra per chip and offered them as samples, thus meeting the minimum chip count requirements of 4 different chips for 400 pieces.

20180121_195625.jpg
 
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We play dealers choice wild card games with a $20 buy-in as well. Same max bet and bet and raise rules. Though our antes are up to the dealer. We use the following starting stacks:
10 - $.05
14 - $.25
11 - $ 1.00
1 - $5.00
 
Can't stop playing with the designer and the samples....

Alt-set:
ConGlom4.png


I'm liking this better than my previous "final version".
 
that 1000 chips is .... weird.... I do like all of the other chips for sure.

I know, right. Of all the chips in that mockup, the 1000 is still a work in progress.

I want them to be distinctive and noticeable when compared with the others.
 
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