Tourney Does This Charity MTT NLHE Structure Need Improvement? (1 Viewer)

LotsOfChips

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I'm assisting the TD for a Registered Charity Organization in setting up his "first ever" Charity MTT NLHE Tournament. The "first ever" is in quotation marks is because it is the first attempt by this TD and for this branch of the organization, but they are in effect taking over and relocating a long running MTT from a neighboring community's branch (whose TD has moved away). The plan at this point is to maintain the existing structure for the first couple of games, but the TD is open to suggestions for improvement.

Details of existing structure:
  • $50 buy in (limited by law to $100 max)
  • Prize Pool $2000 (1st - $800, 2nd - $400, 3rd - $200, 4th-8th - $100, HH - $100) (again limited by law to $2k max)
  • 11 tables of 10 players (existing game sells out well in advance), volunteer dealers (yet again limited by law)
  • T5000 starting stacks, with optional 1K add-ons at start and at 1 hour break ($10 each)
  • 20 minute blinds, 10 minute breaks each 3 levels (hourly)
  • Desired run time 4.5 hours (can run for 5 if req'd)
  • T25 base
  • Blind Structure:
LevelSBBB% Increase
12550N/A
250100100.00%
3100200100.00%
10 min BreakRemove T25
4200400100.00%
530060050.00%
640080033.33%
10 min BreakRemove T100
7500100025.00%
810002000100.00%
920004000100.00%
10 min BreakRemove T500
103000600050.00%
114000800033.33%
1250001000025.00%
10 min BreakRemove T1000
131000020000100.00%
14150003000050.00%
15200004000033.33%
10 min Break
16250005000025.00%
17300006000020.00%
18350007000016.67%
10 min Break
19400008000014.29%
20450009000012.50%
215000010000011.11%

In my (very limited) opinion, the blind structure has the potential to make this into a bit of a shove-fest early (starting stacks are <10BB within 1 hr 20 minutes), and the % progression of 100/100/100/50/33/25/100/100/50/33/25 makes no sense to me whatsoever. It especially seems to concentrate the biggest % increases at the front end and middle of the tournament rather than the back end.

I am considering suggesting a more balanced blind structure that (mostly) alternates between 50% and 33% increases, and still finishes within 4.5 hours, but that would probably require 15 minute blinds:
LevelSBBB% Increase
12550
250100100.00%
37515050.00%
410020033.33%
10 min Break
515030050.00%
620040033.33%
730060050.00%
840080033.33%
10 min BreakRemove T25
9600120050.00%
10800160033.33%
111200240050.00%
121600320033.33%
10 min BreakRemove T100
132500500056.25%
143500700040.00%
1550001000042.86%
1675001500050.00%
10 min BreakRemove T500 & T1k
17100002000033.33%
18150003000050.00%
19200004000033.33%
20300006000050.00%
21450009000050.00%

Is this a case of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it", or is the existing structure bad enough that it warrants improvement?
 
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JustinInMN

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While I like your second structure better, given your time parameters, it's too slow.

Assuming all 110 players do both add-ons that's 770K in play. Using the 20BB rule, that means you would expect the tournament to end when the big blind gets to 40K.

In the first structure, that is right on the 4:40-5:00 elapsed mark, in the second structure, that level doesn't hit until 7 hours.

There are some things not to like about the first structure, but on the whole, it's not bad enough to change to answer the question directly.
 
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LotsOfChips

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While I like your second structure better, given your time parameters, it's too slow.

Assuming all 110 players do both add-ons that's 770K in play. Using the 20BB rule, that means you would expect the tournament to end when the big blind gets to 40K.

In the first structure, that is right on the 4:40-5:00 elapsed mark, in the second structure, that level doesn't hit until 7 hours.

There are some things not to like about the first structure, but on the whole, it's not bad enough to change to answer the question directly.
That's why the blinds would need to change to 15 minutes. In the proposed structure 40k BB would start at 4:30 playing time plus breaks (unless I'm missing something). Original structure is at 4:40 plus same number of breaks. So pretty much the same time frame.

I also guestimated 1.5 add ons per player (some won't spend the money, and some will bust out before the first break), for around 715k total chips, which would be 35750 BB (round up to 40k, which is the same as what you calculated).
 

JustinInMN

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Sorry I overlooked the comment of doing 15 minute levels. But that said, I am not a fan of levels this short because if the button doesn't get around once per orbit my experience is players will instantly perceive the game as moving too slow.

I like everything around your proposed structure better, but the time constraint is the issue at play here.
 

LotsOfChips

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I am not a fan of levels this short because if the button doesn't get around once per orbit my experience is players will instantly perceive the game as moving too slow.

I like everything around your proposed structure better, but the time constraint is the issue at play here.
Agreed, 15 minutes isn't enough time for the button to go all around the table. Good point!
 

JustinInMN

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If you can get away with 4 levels (80m) between breaks and a 6:00-6:20 duration, this is a credible structure. Otherwise I just don't see a way to do a 50BB for 110 players in 4.5-5 hours without doing the early doubles that we dislike in the first structure.

50-100
75-150
100-200
150-300
Break 10m - Remove T25
200-400
300-600
400-800
600-1200
Break 10m - Remove T100
1000-2000
1500-3000
2000-4000
3000-6000
Break 10m - Remove T500
4000-8000
6000-12000
10000-20000
15000-30000
Break 10m - Remove T1000
20000-40000 (expected EOT)
 

LotsOfChips

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Game starts at 7:00 pm, and I think that they want to finish around midnight (breaks included), so it looks like the original structure will probably stand. I’ll try tweaking that a bit to get rid of some of the 25% and smaller increases, but it looks like some of the early 100% jumps will have to stay.
 

Alex Lundstrum

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Given the desire to finish in 4.5 - 5 hours, I'd go with the following:
RoundTimeDurationSBBB% Increase
17:000:202550---
27:200:2050100100%
37:400:207515050%
B18:000:10Add-On
48:100:20150300100%
58:300:2025050067%
68:500:205001,000100%
B29:100:10Color up T25
79:200:208001,60060%
89:400:201,5003,00088%
910:000:202,5005,00067%
B310:200:10Color up T100
1010:300:205,00010,000100%
1110:500:208,00016,00060%
1211:100:2015,00030,00088%
1311:300:2025,00050,00067%
1411:500:1050,000100,000100%
Mando-Chop12:00

Increases are not nearly as smooth as is nice for tourneys, but for a tourney this size, anything less than 20 minute blinds isn't great.

Play should end ~11:30, with room for 1.5 more blind levels. Play shouldn't be able to get past level 14 given the numbers, but if it does you can always enforce a mandatory chop at 12:00. Dropping to 15 min levels after Break 3 wouldn't hurt too much, so could fit an 80K/160K level in at the end if you do that - play should definitely not move past that.

I'd also advise dealer to start working 5K chips onto the table after Break 3 and working the 500s and 1Ks off.

For what it's worth, I'd advise the following chips:
DenomStarting StackTotal Available
2581,000
10081,000
5002300
10003600
5000---100
 
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