Does GPI/Paulson Really Care? (1 Viewer)

[timinater]

4.8M out of 90M. yikes.

My thoughts exactly! That's tight margins for the market leader.

 

[MeridianFC]

The only thing that would make me a belabor This discussion is the fact that it is obvious that non casino chips are getting made.

 

[ninedeuce]

Look what happened when they let hoodies and sunglasses into the poker rooms. Gradually it’s become locker room poker.

Oh man, I'd love to play in a room where no hoodies or sunglasses allowed.

 

[Silver_Fiend]

Oh man, I'd love to play in a room where no hoodies or sunglasses allowed.

no cellphones at the table either.

 

[ekricket]

Casinos probably spend more on baccarat cards in a week than they’ll lose to counterfeit jumers chips overall.

 

[ChipEnvy]

My bad - I didn't realize that. If you've told me that before, I've missed it. I would guess that's still far short of the typical security features con casinos' big chips, but now I'm merely speculating.

UV is technically a security measure, but it's one that is easier to fake than any other aspect of the chip. After performing an exhaustive 4 second search my research team eventually found an entire kit can be bought online for $200.

 

[ssanel54]

Remember that GPI did offer the promo chips to the public market but they even canned that probably because it wasn’t making them enough money.

And also, while GPI could make a few million offering casino Paulson to us monkeys, that market would dry up quickly. The majority of the reason these chips sell for as much as they do is that they’re unobtanium. If they were easily available then they’d all be selling for max $3/chip.

Remember we have a custom clay chip company that will sell to us but more cards molds are ordered than CPCs…

Seems like many people forget that Paulson offered numerous fantasy sets to the home market for several years at about a $1 a chip. When they were readily available, the community turned their noses at them because they weren’t real casino chips, or they were on a different mold, or because you could get fully customized with ASM.

When they stopped selling to the public, secondary prices increased, but that doesn’t mean the market price would be $3-6 if Paulson just made them available again. PCF would probably buy a bunch, and then they would be sitting on the shelf like they used to, while the chip community gravitated toward something else that is not readily available

 

[jr8719]

The only thing that would make me a belabor This discussion is the fact that it is obvious that non casino chips are getting made.

Hang or, are you implying that Tiger Palace is not a real casino?

 

[MeridianFC]

Hang or, are you implying that Tiger Palace is not a real casino?

The chips exist therefore it is real. You can get comped a room if you arrive via the Empress Star.

 

[Brandon]

Other interesting nuggets from their last annual report.

1) Chips only account for 44% of GPI’s sales. So recurring revenues from other business lines are equally if not more important than chips. Maybe we should update to PCCF “Poker Chips and Cards Forum”

2) As others had mentioned, RFID solutions were outlined as their key value to customers and edge on competition. RFID chips grew significantly as a share of their revenue (18% to 24% in a year) and failing which would pose a major risk to their business.

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Like and agree with most you’ve said thus far. And there are plenty involved in this thread that are very close to this topic of home market and GPI, but what I don’t follow in your post is the notion that a home market business line would have ANY effect on RFID value to a casino customer. #1 they have this as an added security feature on top of not producing identical (or even very close to) chips that have already been established as live chips. So my point is even if they offered RFID to home market (see point #2) they would not create a chip that would be so close in nature as to deceive a casino employee at the cage. #2 they simply DONT offer RFID option into home market. If that were the case, what part of security is being compromised?

 

[puglia82]

I think a casino has to protect itself. House mold it's the way, something like this

Chips like these, with house mold and denomination embossed (or better, with a combination of them) are are much more difficult to reproduce, even accidentally, as it was the case with Horseshoe-Jumers.

 

[TheDuke]

2) As others had mentioned, RFID solutions were outlined as their key value to customers and edge on competition. RFID chips grew significantly as a share of their revenue (18% to 24% in a year) and failing which would pose a major risk to their business.

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View attachment 1055937

???

Doesn't the table show the exact opposite? RFID chips represented a smaller share of business in 2018 vs 2017.

Currency without RFID grew to 24% in 2018 vs 18% in 2017. 41% increase.

Currency with RFID decreased to 20.1% in 2018 from 22.4% in 2017. 2.9% decrease.

 

[Silver_Fiend]

Remember that GPI did offer the promo chips to the public market but they even canned that probably because it wasn’t making them enough money.

And also, while GPI could make a few million offering casino Paulson to us monkeys, that market would dry up quickly. The majority of the reason these chips sell for as much as they do is that they’re unobtanium. If they were easily available then they’d all be selling for max $3/chip.

Remember we have a custom clay chip company that will sell to us but more cards molds are ordered than CPCs…

We have a custom chip company who sells to us, but they are top-tier expensive. While they are worth the cost, regardless of how good they are, they are out of the reach of many who just want a nice set to play poker with their friends. Thats why ceramics and cards molds sell so many.

 

[upNdown]

Seems like many people forget that Paulson offered numerous fantasy sets to the home market for several years at about a $1 a chip. When they were readily available, the community turned their noses at them because they weren’t real casino chips, or they were on a different mold, or because you could get fully customized with ASM.

When they stopped selling to the public, secondary prices increased, but that doesn’t mean the market price would be $3-6 if Paulson just made them available again. PCF would probably buy a bunch, and then they would be sitting on the shelf like they used to, while the chip community gravitated toward something else that is not readily available

I think you’re talking about the chips GPI was selling under the BCC brand as promotional chips? And you’re right - who took advantage of that? @Tommy had the PCF tournament chips made (and a 5 year anniversary chip) and @Apache had tournament chips made, and that’s all I can recall - I don’t remember any members getting sets made. Probably because they were only available as 312 with about 7 colors available.

 

[ssanel54]

I think you’re talking about the chips GPI was selling under the BCC brand as promotional chips? And you’re right - who took advantage of that? @Tommy had the PCF tournament chips made (and a 5 year anniversary chip) and @Apache had tournament chips made, and that’s all I can recall - I don’t remember any members getting sets made. Probably because they were only available as 312 with about 7 colors available.

No, those promo chips were GPI coming back to the home market. I am talking about CDI, PCR, WTHC, pharaoh, Le Noir…all of which were readily available through resellers. Not to mention the Apache stock designs and semi custom hot stamps.

 

[upNdown]

No, those promo chips were GPI coming back to the home market. I am talking about CDI, PCR, WTHC, pharaoh, Le Noir…all of which were readily available through resellers. Not to mention the Apache stock designs and semi custom hot stamps.

Oh, right. I can’t speak for the chipping community, but I was never interested in those because 1) they weren’t genuine casino chips and 2) they mostly used the same colors/spot patterns across all lines.

These tiger chips are showing (I think) that the chipping community is more about #2 - cool colors and cool spot patterns are what we want. They weren’t offered before and they won’t be offered again, but yeah, even if they did start cranking out those home chips like they used to, there wouldn’t be interest in them at $6-$10/chip if they were in those same old boring colors/spots.

 

[ssanel54]

Oh, right. I can’t speak for the chipping community, but I was never interested in those because 1) they weren’t genuine casino chips and 2) they mostly used the same colors/spot patterns across all lines.

These tiger chips are showing (I think) that the chipping community is more about #2 - cool colors and cool spot patterns are what we want. They weren’t offered before and they won’t be offered again, but yeah, even if they did start cranking out those home chips like they used to, there wouldn’t be interest in them at $6-$10/chip if they were in those same old boring colors/spots.

I dunno, I’d argue that some of those home sets had cool colors and spot patterns, and even shaped inlays. They weren’t boring, but people didn’t want them as much because they were readily available. If Paulson made the Tiger NCV chips readily available to the mass market, so everyone could do their own sticker sets using that base line-up, I’m just not sure they would remain as popular in a community like ours that values the unobtainable

 

[bergs]

Casinos probably spend more on baccarat cards in a week than they’ll lose to counterfeit jumers chips overall.

{no_home_jerome has entered the chat}

 

[ekricket]

{no_home_jerome has entered the chat}

???

Are you needing assistance with homelessness? There are scores of agencies out there, I’m not familiar with them but can read up on them and possibly guide you some if you need the help. If you aren’t comfortable with a white male person helping you we can find someone else that’s relatable.

 

[timinater]

???

Are you needing assistance with homelessness? There are scores of agencies out there, I’m not familiar with them but can read up on them and possibly guide you some if you need the help. If you aren’t comfortable with a white male person helping you we can find someone else that’s relatable.

Old nickname for Phil Ivey...

 

[bergs]

???

Are you needing assistance with homelessness? There are scores of agencies out there, I’m not familiar with them but can read up on them and possibly guide you some if you need the help. If you aren’t comfortable with a white male person helping you we can find someone else that’s relatable.

 

[ekricket]

 

[links_slayer]

no jokes in srs thread plz

 

[ekricket]

View attachment 1056378

You might temper all this with the fact I haven’t been home for 21 days, since before Christmas. Been flying for 30 hours over 8 time zones, waiting on luggage for 3 more hours, then finally driving four hours home yesterday/today.
So ya, obscure homeless joke little over my head right now, lol

 

[bergs]

You might temper all this with the fact I haven’t been home for 21 days, since before Christmas. Been flying for 30 hours over 8 time zones, waiting on luggage for 3 more hours, then finally driving four hours home yesterday/today.
So ya, obscure homeless joke little over my head right now, lol

Translation: you homeless (temporarily)

 

[fishsaybloop]

???

Doesn't the table show the exact opposite? RFID chips represented a smaller share of business in 2018 vs 2017.

Currency without RFID grew to 24% in 2018 vs 18% in 2017. 41% increase.

Currency with RFID decreased to 20.1% in 2018 from 22.4% in 2017. 2.9% decrease.

You’re right! English fail

Like and agree with most you’ve said thus far. And there are plenty involved in this thread that are very close to this topic of home market and GPI, but what I don’t follow in your post is the notion that a home market business line would have ANY effect on RFID value to a casino customer. #1 they have this as an added security feature on top of not producing identical (or even very close to) chips that have already been established as live chips. So my point is even if they offered RFID to home market (see point #2) they would not create a chip that would be so close in nature as to deceive a casino employee at the cage. #2 they simply DONT offer RFID option into home market. If that were the case, what part of security is being compromised?

As a frame: the thought exercise I found more interesting is whether there’s a business case for home chips and if a business they would restart a home consumer line (and not one-off GB which is kinda moot ).

The point on RFID and security is less about its relevance for home games but more on business focus. If that’s their perceived edge on competition then I’d spend company resources to defend that (as @TheDuke rightly pointed out was in decline) - whether through more sales to casinos, R&D, complimentary products, etc.

As a listed company at the time, it was probably a better pitch to investors. Interestingly, in the early 2010 annual reports - there’s no mention of the home retail either on revenue contribution or strategy.

With travel and China re-opening, my guess is Angel is going to want to keep the casinos up and running happily for a while. But who knows, maybe they’ll want some cash in a down market ◡̈

 

[cpac54]

We have a custom chip company who sells to us, but they are top-tier expensive. While they are worth the cost, regardless of how good they are, they are out of the reach of many who just want a nice set to play poker with their friends. Thats why ceramics and cards molds sell so many.

This is certainly true. CPC is excellent, but even a set with modest spot patterns gets up there pretty quick price-wise.

I just put in a 1300+ chip order with LVL 4, 3 and 5 chips making up the bulk of the order (LVL 3 accounted for half of the total order) and my average cost was still just shy of $4/chip. Even without shaped inlays it still would have been north of $3/chip.

Still good value imo for fully custom clay chips, but I can understand how that’s still out of reach for a lot of folks.

 

[BGinGA]

The chips exist therefore it is real. You can get comped a room if you arrive via the Empress Star.

Aurora Star rates are cheaper, just sayin'.

 

[BGinGA]

I think a casino has to protect itself. House mold it's the way, something like this

Chips like these, with house mold and denomination embossed (or better, with a combination of them) are much more difficult to reproduce, even accidentally, as it was the case with Horseshoe-Jumers.


View attachment 1056202View attachment 1056203View attachment 1056205

I dunno about that. One could easily just order custom-mold Tina chips in 3..2..1...

 

[MeridianFC]

Aurora Star rates are cheaper, just sayin'.

But that only gives you access to the Big Top Poker room. I'd rather be comped at the Noodle Bar.