Does anyone run a POY award for their home games? (1 Viewer)

[bsdunbar1]

I'm wanting to award a Player Of the Year award for all games played in my poker room. I have stats on just about everything, but was wondering what else could be tracked without total games played automatically winning out?
We'll end up playing about 50 tournaments this year and will probably make the criteria at least to have played 1/2 of those games.

Net $ Won
Winning %
ITM %
Avg Finish
Final Table %
Kills per Game

What else would be important to calculate in here?

AND, what is your ranking on the above criteria's? What is the order of importance?

 

[detroitdad]

@WedgeRock

 

[trigs]

IMHO, I don't like Net $ Won because I don't think it accurately demonstrates the best players even though this is the stat used most in measuring the pros in MTTs (I'll never understand why they use it). Not factoring in buy-in and number of entrants means it's not accurate.

Kills per Game seems to unjustly favor the more aggressive players. Just because I bust more people doesn't mean I'm the better player vs a less aggressive or small ball player.

Final Table % could be okay but I'm assuming that we are talking about a home game that has maybe 3-4 tables max - if you regularly have two tables and something like 12-15 entrants, than final table % doesn't mean that much.

I'm assuming Winning % means outright wins (i.e. 1st place) only - if that's the case I don't like that one either as once it gets to 3 handed or heads up at the end of a tournament, there can be a lot more luck involved with shorter stacks. I could have a ton of 2nds and have easily won the most money with the highest avg finish and ITM% but lose out to one guy who won a couple times but bricked out in last place every other time.

Therefore, I'd lean towards Avg Finish or ITM%. If the number of payouts is always consistent, then I think I'd prefer ITM% for POY. However, if it's always changing (because number of entrants is always changing), then I'd think Avg Finish would be the best stat for POY. I think it best reflects a POY as you are constantly making it deep. However, both of these stats could be skewed depending on how many tournaments people attend.

I think a points system that considers number of entrants combined with avg finish would be the best way to measure a POY award. Again, just my opinion but I don't host tournaments regularly.

 

[bsdunbar1]

To clear up my thinking, I am thinking about using ALL of these criteria's combined to determine a POY.
I would weigh them on order of importance, Kills would be a much smaller value than ITM ranking.

We generally are 3 tables, and although Final Table might not be that huge of an accomplishment with only 3 tables, for my group they all have the same chance to make the final table and some do it at a much higher rate.

I was thinking about ranking a Top 10 for each of these categories with points accordingly, the TOTAL points between all the categories makes you the POY.

What I'm looking for are other potential categories I am missing to find the "Best" player.

 

[Ethan]

@MrCatPants ?

 

[markleteenie]

I think @Poker Zombie has some cool metrics.

 

[bsdunbar1]

@Poker Zombie

 

[buzzmonkey]

I think I would lean towards separate awards for some of those categories rather than incorporate them into the main POY award.

 

[joepro]

Not to derail, but I know of one league where they play one final tournament with the top 10 ranked players. That league also allocated that final table with starting stacks according to ranking. I never played there so I don't know how well it worked.

 

[allforcharity]

Most hot dogs eaten?

 

[BGinGA]

For awarding a PoY, in a tournament setting, I would go with average finish, with a minimum number of appearances required to qualify. Period.

Nothing else really reflects overall performance as well, and adding additional measurements only serves to diminish the players accomplishments, not refine it.

But I'd augment that PoY award with other awards for excellence in other categories, such as Total Cashes, Most Knockouts (or KOs/event), Win Ratio, Perfect Attendance/Top Supporter, etc.

With 50 possible tournaments, I'd use 20 events as the minimum qualifier amount. That's a large enough sample size to eliminate the shot-in-the-dark performances from skewing the standings.

 

[BGinGA]

Not to derail, but I know of one league where they play one final tournament with the top 10 ranked players. That league also allocated that final table with starting stacks according to ranking. I never played there so I don't know how well it worked.

We do the same -- players earn performance-based points during the regular season, with the top eight players in the final point standings earning a spot in the freeroll Championship game (with stack sizes based on a formula considering points, wins, bounties, events, and re-buys). The tournament winner is crowned Champion.

 

[bsdunbar1]

For awarding a PoY, in a tournament setting, I would go with average finish, with a minimum number of appearances required to qualify. Period.

Nothing else really reflects overall performance as well, and adding additional measurements only serves to diminish the players accomplishments, not refine it.

But I'd augment that PoY award with other awards for excellence in other categories, such as Total Cashes, Most Knockouts (or KOs/event), Win Ratio, Perfect Attendance/Top Supporter, etc.

With 50 possible tournaments, I'd use 20 events as the minimum qualifier amount. That's a large enough sample size to eliminate the shot-in-the-dark performances from skewing the standings.

This is the best suggestion yet.
Hard to argue the result
Easy to understand for the players.

 

[legonick]

This is the best suggestion yet.
Hard to argue the result
Easy to understand for the players.

Agreed. I think the "20" number can be tuned for your league too. If people are usually way higher than that, up the number a bit. If you want to encourage people to make sure they hit every game, again, up that number. If you aren't concerned with regulars or want to encourage a rotating pool, keep at 20 or relax it a bit. As stated, you don't want to go too low - that could work against you! If it was "1", you could have someone win the first tourney and never show up after that...can't beat 100%!

 

[Poker Zombie]

I have found that seeing one's name in writing brings a lot of joy. So stats such as KO leader, Winning %, ITM%, Avg Finish, FInal table %, and KPG are fine on a sheet of paper listing the top 3-10 players (depending on formatting). It gets a lot of discussion pregame, and provides fun, and fosters friendly competition.

I don't list things involving money, because I don't want to make the fish feel bad about how much they lost.

As for Player of the Year, the question is "what do you think the Player of the Year means?"

For me, it's

• Playing. Players make the game. So I award points for attendance. 1 point for every $20 of buy-in.
• In the Money. In a MTT, IDGAF who finished 27th. There's a 67% chance he didn't even get to face the easiest player, so he gets fewer points than the rest of the group. So I only award points for making the money. At that point, you have to make the final table and survive against the best of the night for a little while. I think @BGinGA awards points for the bubble as well, which I also like for the same reason. Play the best to get any points. First KO at the final table could have been KO'ed the first hand if he faced the same guy - he doesn't deserve points for getting a good seat. That's just fucking dumb.
• Field size. We have had a 9 player event because of bad weather. Beating a field of 9 is bupkis compared to besting a field of 19. The same thing goes for rebuys. You can beat everybody once, but if you have to beat them all twice, that should be worth more.
• Simplicity. Yeah, I have some complicated formulas. I love spreadsheets. But Player of the Year is something people drive for all year. Don't get to the final game and make it a mystery as to who won. No sport determines their champion using a square root, or requires a mathematician to calculate the results. So my PotY formula is simple: (Buy-in/$20)*(Players+Rebuys). Thats first. Second gets 70%, third 60%, 4th 50%, and so on, for ITM finishers. Since there is a display that tracks the payouts, it also tracks the scores.

In the upper right, you can see the payout screen, The first column is finish, second is payout,, third is points. Everyone knows how many points they get for the night.

Is it perfect? Sure, for me. YMMV.

 

[CdnBeerLover]

Our league also uses a points system. The number of points awarded for a win is the reverse of the number of players in the game (so, the winner of an 18-player game gets more points than the winner of a 9 player game). Rebuys also come into play. In the case of a tie, the player who used fewer rebuys during the course of the season gets a higher overall ranking than a player with higher rebuys.

Simplistic? Yes. Easy to explain to anyone who questions their ranking? Also yes. It works for us.

 

[raynmanas]

the league i am in (15+ years running) has a website with a ridiculous amount of stats, literally anything you can think of. but honestly it's probably too much because it discourages the "less successful" players when they see in plain view how poorly they do. for that reason, i think a TOC is the only good way to crown a yearly champ. otherwise if it is long-running like ours, you are going to see a certain number of repeat winners. we already do to some extent with the TOC format, but pretty much anyone could feasibly win in any given year.

 

[Rakrul]

Why do you want to award the best player? He's already making money and as long as he does he'll be a regular. Focus on what you can do for new and losing players. How can you somehow award them without it being a great personality award or similar?

 

[Josh Kifer]

We don't have a player of the year, but twice a year we do a Main Event and the winner gets placed on the plaque....

It got finished yesterday, so I didn't have anywhere to post it.

So... Really. I wasted all your time and it has nothing to do with this post..... But it's pretty!

 

[bsdunbar1]

Why do you want to award the best player?

I host multiple weekly league seasons within a years time
I host an annual WSOP monthly league
I host multiple monthly stand alone tournaments in a years time

I want to award a POY across all games played.

 

[pltrgyst]

As I've posted before, when I ran my series of home games, it was basically:

1. Must participate in at least half the games,

2. Points accumulated weekly, one point for each player you outlast.

3. This allowed for both tournaments and cash games, as explained at 2012 series rules.

If you don't include cash games, it's really simple, and works great.

 

[bsdunbar1]

(Buy-in/$20)*(Players+Rebuys). Thats first. Second gets 70%, third 60%, 4th 50%, and so on, for ITM finishers. Since there is a display that tracks the payouts, it also tracks the scores.

Pretty simple, I like it.
Does a re-buy from the winner affect his points collection for winning?

 

[Poker Zombie]

Why do you want to award the best player? He's already making money and as long as he does he'll be a regular. Focus on what you can do for new and losing players. How can you somehow award them without it being a great personality award or similar?

Our Player of the Year gets an embroidered shirt - that they have to supply. Afterall, they have the money, right?

For new players we have a Rookie of the Year (though there have been no new players in the last two years). For everybody, we have a "Hall of Fame" complete with induction ceremony, and their likeness put on commemorative chips which are put into play. The HoF has a very long list of "great things" that people have done over the years (too vast to list here), that includes in-game accomplishments as well as extraneous things players have done (such as getting an Uber for a player that needed a ride home, supplying food for dinner, or helping us set up following my back surgery).

We take our list, assign a "point value" to each thing they've done, and make a list of the top 3. A selection committee then decides on who the inductee is. That is where the great personality comes into play. Afterall, most of us play for the people, not the profits. The HoF is limited to just 10% of all players (custom chips are limited), so getting in is truly a privilege. The 3rd player ever inducted, just happens to also be 64 games without a win. That's a great person, not a great card player, but she earned our highest honor.

 

[Poker Zombie]

Pretty simple, I like it.
Does a re-buy from the winner affect his points collection for winning?

No. In my mind, I would rather have a player rebuy than leave. A point system that penalizes a rebuy, discourages a rebuy. I'd rather have the player of the year play.

 

[Rakrul]

I host multiple weekly league seasons within a years time
I host an annual WSOP monthly league
I host multiple monthly stand alone tournaments in a years time

I want to award a POY across all games played.

That doesn't really answer the why though.
My point is that you don't need to motivate winning players to come back (or award them on top of their winnings), you need to motivate the losers (to come back). Without losers your game dies.

 

[bsdunbar1]

That doesn't really answer the why though.
My point is that you don't need to motivate winning players to come back (or award them on top of their winnings), you need to motivate the losers (to come back). Without losers your game dies.

Completely agree you have to keep the fish engaged.
I have no problems with attendance, so that isn't part of my goal.

Your name on the Champions plaque is what everyone plays for. I am going to create an additional award everyone wants to shoot for and have bragging rights to.

 

[MrCatPants]

My formula looks at field size and does a logarithmic scale for points. So the gap between 1st and 2nd is larger than 2nd and 3rd, etc. For field size, someone winning a 20 person event will end up with significantly more points than someone winning a 10 person event.

It also discounts points won for rebuys. So a first place person with two rebuys will actually get slightly less points than second place with no rebuys.

I give everyone a minimum of one point for showing up regardless of finish or rebuys so the fish at least feel progress and can outward irregular players who are better.

Also give a half point for bounties - which only ends up as about 15% of the point pool so it helps more aggro players slightly but not a crazy amount.

Overall, results seem to smell right to everyone for what we are trying to achieve. Happy to share my spreadsheet if you want to see it.

 

[APatHand]

My formula looks at field size and does a logarithmic scale for points. So the gap between 1st and 2nd is larger than 2nd and 3rd, etc. For field size, someone winning a 20 person event will end up with significantly more points than someone winning a 10 person event.

It also discounts points won for rebuys. So a first place person with two rebuys will actually get slightly less points than second place with no rebuys.

I give everyone a minimum of one point for showing up regardless of finish or rebuys so the fish at least feel progress and can outward irregular players who are better.

Also give a half point for bounties - which only ends up as about 15% of the point pool so it helps more aggro players slightly but not a crazy amount.

Overall, results seem to smell right to everyone for what we are trying to achieve. Happy to share my spreadsheet if you want to see it.

Now, if you were only playing again...

 

[MrCatPants]

Now, if you were only playing again...

We are, on the great internets! You're always welcome if you change your mind about online poker

 

[Drkev]

I will organize POY tournament this year (with the top 6 players) based on STATS I gathered since February.
Our points system revolves mainly on attendance points + ranking points (to keep it simple) and being a small league of 19 players but around 10 being active it provides pretty accurate data.
https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/small-league-points-system.67780/