Do you use a card guard? (2 Viewers)

[Poker Zombie]

I just question - if a player is so irritating, wouldn't it be in everybody's best interest to simply ask management to ban Frank? Rude behaviour is reason enough (I don't know what check-raising the floorman means, I hope someone can explain this one to me).

If anybody acts in a way that is detrimental to your business, ban them. Unless you are trying to ban them for something protected by law (age, sex, race, etc.) they will have no redress. If this guy was so bad people that never sat at a table with him "hated" him, he was probablly chasing other players away. Management could ban this man. Dealers could unite to refuse to deal to him (unionize and put it in the contract if need be). Steal from him and risk a report to the gaming commission? I don't know how much trouble a casino would suffer from that, but I bet it's a hefty fine to steal from players that don't tip.

 

[RainmanTrail]

I don't know if I should applaud you for A) getting rid of the jerk, or B) disdain you for knowingly mucking a hand because you didn't like the player. You committed theft, and admittedly profited from it ($20). You then boast about your crime on this website. If anything, the morale of the story is to always tip the dealer - because he may be a crook who is going to steal from you.

After a bit of thought, It's definitely not A.

Feel free to disdain me then. We all see the world through our own pair of glasses.

As far as me "stealing", I take offense to that charge. Perhaps you don't know the rules of poker, and you surely don't know me if you think that. It is the player's responsibility to pay attention at all times. It is not the dealer's job to baby sit. If a player leaves his cards unmarked, especially if they're sitting in front of his stack, and is watching TV when it's his turn to act, and doesn't respond when spoken to, that hand is dead. Period. End of story. It is a courtesy on the dealer's part to extend any additional effort required to get that player to respond. A courtesy that Frank has declined through his actions over the years. The key point I'm making here is that it is because his cards were not marked that his hand was dead. All he needed to do was put a marker on his hand, and the action would have had to wait for him to respond. Furthermore, the dealer is responsible to uphold the rules of the game. I did what I was supposed to do. I just would have given any other player more time as a courtesy.

Feel free to call me a jerk if you want, but calling me a thief, a criminal, and a crook is uncalled for. Like I said, everyone else bought me beers for months, and the floorman supported my decision. You should at least give me the benefit of the doubt before calling me a criminal.

 

[RainmanTrail]

I just question - if a player is so irritating, wouldn't it be in everybody's best interest to simply ask management to ban Frank? Rude behaviour is reason enough (I don't know what check-raising the floorman means, I hope someone can explain this one to me).

If anybody acts in a way that is detrimental to your business, ban them. Unless you are trying to ban them for something protected by law (age, sex, race, etc.) they will have no redress. If this guy was so bad people that never sat at a table with him "hated" him, he was probablly chasing other players away. Management could ban this man. Dealers could unite to refuse to deal to him (unionize and put it in the contract if need be). Steal from him and risk a report to the gaming commission? I don't know how much trouble a casino would suffer from that, but I bet it's a hefty fine to steal from players that don't tip.

Frank was banned by the majority of the card rooms in WA already. He had also received a temporary ban at The Grove prior to this incident.

No one stole any money from Frank. It was his own fault that I mucked his hand. His hand was dead per the rules of play. Courtesies beyond the rules are not a right. Assholes generally are not afforded courtesies in life. Frank was an asshole of the highest order. End of story.

 

[RainmanTrail]

All games are recorded on camera and the dealer's actions are subject to extreme scrutiny by the gambling commission. I assure you his hand was dead per the rules of poker. I would not have risked jail time just to kill Frank's hand. I followed the rules.

 

[David O]

Well this thread went south!

Ok now everyone! Do you use a card guard?

 

[detroitdad]

Ok now everyone! Do you use a card guard?

Yes........my next one will be a sexy Mandalay Bay drop chip that I recently acquired

 

[bentax1978]

Well this thread went south!

Ok now everyone! Do you use a card guard?

I'm going to continue to use chips from my stack to protect my hands when I'm in a casino; A $1 chip on top if it's a mediocre hand, a $5 chip if it's a good hand and a $25 from my stack if I have a premium hand. Remember, it's important to be consistent

 

[David O]

Yes........my next one will be a sexy Mandalay Bay drop chip that I recently acquired

I use one of those for a cap as well. I think I still have a few of those left!!

 

[abby99]

That Ultra Rare $5K poker chip from the Hard Rock LV would make a nice card protector.

 

[bentax1978]

That Ultra Rare $5K poker chip from the Hard Rock LV would make a nice card protector.

Then I'd need a chip protector to protect my card protector. Seems like it would start to get complicated

 

[BukNaked36]

No. I just never think of it.

No issues so far other than my typical poor play.

 

[Trihonda]

Why hasn't @Racer96 chimed in. He's got robots that protect his chip protectors that are guarding his card protectors... It's like a mini-visit to a comic-con convention.

 

[RainmanTrail]

Well this thread went south!

Ok now everyone! Do you use a card guard?

Now that I've finished ranting about using a marker... You're all going to laugh at me when I tell you that I rarely use one. I usually just hold onto my cards with my left hand. But they're clearly visible. However, I usually have a card capper with me when I play, and I do use it. I also use chips. It just depends on the hand and the game/situation. I have a trilobite fossil that I picked up several years ago that I use when I play...

 

[David O]

Now that I've finished ranting about using a marker... You're all going to laugh at me when I tell you that I rarely use one. I usually just hold onto my cards with my left hand. But they're clearly visible. However, I usually have a card capper with me when I play, and I do use it. I also use chips. It just depends on the hand and the game/situation. I have a trilobite fossil that I picked up several years ago that I use when I play...

Isn't that a no-no?
106. Foreign Objects: There will be no foreign objects on the table except for a maximum of one card cap (also known as a card protector). Card caps can be no larger than two (2) inches in diameter and no more than one-half (1/2) inch in depth. Participants may not place any food or beverages on the poker table with the exception of one (1) capped bottle of water.

Just messing with you!

David

 

[trever]

I'm going to continue to use chips from my stack to protect my hands when I'm in a casino; A $1 chip on top if it's a mediocre hand, a $5 chip if it's a good hand and a $25 from my stack if I have a premium hand. Remember, it's important to be consistent

I've actually tried doing this as a false tell before, sadly nobody has ever seemed to notice.

 

[RainmanTrail]

Isn't that a no-no?
106. Foreign Objects: There will be no foreign objects on the table except for a maximum of one card cap (also known as a card protector). Card caps can be no larger than two (2) inches in diameter and no more than one-half (1/2) inch in depth. Participants may not place any food or beverages on the poker table with the exception of one (1) capped bottle of water.

Just messing with you!

David

Yes, yes it is a no-no Technically, it's not allowed at the WSOP

 

[Big Jilm]

yes, my left hand. Nobody is taking my cards from me. I do not need something there to prove I am still in the hand because I pay attention. I don't shuffle chips while in a hand either, but I do when I am not in a hand (and never my minty paulsons!).

 

[bergs]

yes, my left hand. Nobody is taking my cards from me. I do not need something there to prove I am still in the hand because I pay attention. I don't shuffle chips while in a hand either, but I do when I am not in a hand (and never my minty paulsons!).

I do the same thing after watching someone at 5/10 NL at Foxwoods earnestly try to muck their hand into another player's hand HU for a 4.5K+ pot. Now I always hold my cards with my left hand and shuffle / bet / drink / fend off knife attacks with my right.

 

[Poker Zombie]

Feel free to disdain me then. We all see the world through our own pair of glasses.

As far as me "stealing", I take offense to that charge. Perhaps you don't know the rules of poker, and you surely don't know me if you think that. It is the player's responsibility to pay attention at all times. It is not the dealer's job to baby sit. If a player leaves his cards unmarked, especially if they're sitting in front of his stack, and is watching TV when it's his turn to act, and doesn't respond when spoken to, that hand is dead. Period. End of story. It is a courtesy on the dealer's part to extend any additional effort required to get that player to respond. A courtesy that Frank has declined through his actions over the years. The key point I'm making here is that it is because his cards were not marked that his hand was dead. All he needed to do was put a marker on his hand, and the action would have had to wait for him to respond. Furthermore, the dealer is responsible to uphold the rules of the game. I did what I was supposed to do. I just would have given any other player more time as a courtesy.

Feel free to call me a jerk if you want, but calling me a thief, a criminal, and a crook is uncalled for. Like I said, everyone else bought me beers for months, and the floorman supported my decision. You should at least give me the benefit of the doubt before calling me a criminal.

Odd thing here, is I don't think of you as a jerk. Running Frank off - pretty cool. If others were buying you beers (I didn't know it was ever ok to fraternize with a dealer) I would also buy you a drink of choice (I do not limit my gratitude - I'm a f*cking strellar tipper). I can only put you on a Robin Hood level - which is pretty high praise in my book. However, mucking a hand because the player hasn't decided, and because you don't like him, is still criminal. If someone called a clock, and he continued to watch TV, the floor came over warned him, he continued to watch TV, they gave the countdown (as per the rules) and he continued to watch TV, and then you mucked his hand... then you followed the rules. Anything else, and you were making a hero call.

But still criminal.

 

[BGinGA]

Well this thread went south!

Ok now everyone! Do you use a card guard?

Well, you can bet the bank that I will be, if Rainman is dealing......

 

[Trihonda]

PZ, I don't think it's 100% fair to call it criminal. I'm sure all casinos have similar, but potentially different rules/player expectations. The floor WAS called, and ruled it was handled correctly. If it was truly criminal, then the floor would have taken appropriate action (it's on video, after all). Without knowing the exact situation, the exact casino rules & legalities, I don't think I want to pass definitive criminal judgment from the interwebz.

Can one pass moral (possibly ethical) judgment? Sure. But in a moral (cosmic karma) justice sense, I'm also buying rainman a beer if I'm a regular in that casino.

 

[RainmanTrail]

It definitely wasn't criminal in the true sense of the word, but it sure as shit was a cheap shot at a very deserving player. Albeit, a by the book cheap shot.

FWIW, I don't think it's any worse than when a player is told to put his chips into the pot after folding, when he clearly had no intention of calling but had chips in his hand when he made a motion towards the muck, and his hand went an inch over the betting line. There are a lot of bullshit gray areas in poker in my opinion.

Also note, that I didn't truly "know" that he had the goods in that hand, it was just my read. No one ever saw his cards either. I might not have even "stolen" from him at all. It's possible that I saved him some money. In which case I should be the one buying beers for the table.

 

[p5woody]

Frequently, but not always using a card protector. It's just good habit that never gets in the way. I just have to make sure that it's not the same size or shape as the chips in play (airtite works well here).

As for the "card capper = donk" - I disagree. It tells me something about the player though.

• Home game chip = home game player.
• Chip from the stack = calculating player.
• Hands covering most of the cards = donk (but that's because they're about to lift the cards off the table to read them like a bridge hand, or their stack is low enough to put their hands directly in front).
• Uncapped cards, especially in the 10 seat = new to casino play.

Bobble varies by the type of bobble, but...

• a character with a vicious face = merciless - fewer bluffs, 3 and 4 betting fearlessly with killer hands
• a female with a "cutsie" protector = timid, tight player
• a man with a "cutsie" protector = Crazy bluffing player
• Rocks of any non-crystalline type = tight aggressive

Of course, this is only for initial impressions, and never a substitute for properly reading your opponents.

So what does this card guard say about me?

 

[bergs]

Player enjoys the company of birds. Player is an uber rock and only plays JJ or better hands from OOP. Player is probably a herbivore (though I would watch them closely and consider following them to the Noodle Bar to confirm plant-eating tendencies). Player runs exceptionally good versus Courage (actually this is not player-dependent, we all run exceptionally well versus Courage). Player likes to wear tutus in the privacy of his own home and there is a 38% that the player is wearing a thong under his khakis if he plays any limit game under 4/8 blinds.

 

[bergs]

The advantage of holding onto your cards in lieu of a card capper is that if someone insists on seeing your card capper and picks it up, you can assume that you're now going steady and aren't allowed to see other people anymore.

 

[Trihonda]

Bobble varies by the type of bobble, but...

• a character with a vicious face = merciless - fewer bluffs, 3 and 4 betting fearlessly with killer hands

Then ChaosRocks' "bobble" makes him merciless? When I saw this guy on his cards/chips, I immediately thought of the teeny robot on Big Hero Six (one of the funniest animated scenes ever).

 

[SixSpeedFury]

I strongly advise you to change your strategy if you're playing against strong opponents. I read this post and just cringed when I read, "I'm usually shuffling with my right hand. I don't think I give anything away..."

Players that shuffle their cards while in a hand give A LOT away. I can tell if you're on a draw or if you have a made hand almost every time if you're a "shuffler". It's a habit that I strongly advise you to break. You should place a marker/chips on your cards. Look at them once, and don't look back - unless you're making a play at someone by looking at them.

I believe he meant shuffling his chips...

 

[RainmanTrail]

I believe he meant shuffling his chips...

Good catch. I think you're right.

However, card shuffling is usually a huge tell. For those who don't know what that means, it's when someone has their thumb on top of one card, and another finger on the other card, and they slide them back and forth. It's usually done subconsciously, and almost always means their hand isn't made yet. It's an anticipation gesture. I will do this on occasion if I'm at a table with solid players, just to throw them off. But it's a terrible habit that all players would benefit from breaking if they catch themselves doing it.

 

[Strike1st]

So what does this card guard say about me?
View attachment 26822

Don't f*** with woody!

 

[Ben]

Good catch. I think you're right.

However, card shuffling is usually a huge tell. For those who don't know what that means, it's when someone has their thumb on top of one card, and another finger on the other card, and they slide them back and forth. It's usually done subconsciously, and almost always means their hand isn't made yet. It's an anticipation gesture. I will do this on occasion if I'm at a table with solid players, just to throw them off. But it's a terrible habit that all players would benefit from breaking if they catch themselves doing it.

Confirmed. The only time I ever do this is when I have 82o preflop and 6 drunks in front of me who are going to take approx. 27 years to realize they have cards and act before I can fold. At that point, I really don't care if they pick up on it.