Do these words make a call? (1 Viewer)

upNdown

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There’s some backstory to this which makes it interesting if not relevant but I’ll write that after.

The action doesn’t marke very much but I think I bet pre and got one caller. I think I bet the flop and he called, I probably checked the turn and he checked back, and I’m not even sure if I bet the river and he jammed or if I checked the river and he jammed.
But there was like $20ish in the pot, he jammed like $65, I tanked, kinda held my cards up in the air and said “well I think I’m going to have to call . . .” And as I said that he grabbed his cards and looked at them like he was about to table the nuts. So I paused mid-sentence and thought about what was happening before I could finish my sentence. And I’m not even sure who said something but it was obvious that some people thought it was a call.
It’s my game, so I can’t rule, so I look to another guy, who’s not in the hand and who’s worked tons of dealer and floor. And he said yeah that sounds like a call. And I said shit I didn’t even get to finish what I was saying. And he’s like it doesn’t matter. And I’m like yeah you’re right, shit, I guess I have to call. So I called, and I won with a mid pair bluff catcher.

The interesting backstory is this is my best and oldest poker buddy. Last week I called down his a huge river shove holding only 33 and won. And you could tell it annoyed him tonight, because he had jammed rivers on me at least a couple of times. so when he jammed on me this time my grand statement was going to be “well I think I’m going to have to call you down one of these times if you’re gonna keep pushing me around, but it’s not going to be this time.”

So I really didn’t want to call. But after like 5-10 seconds of discussion I realized I’d called and I agreed to it. So I just felt bad about the way it went down.
 
It's really tough to say without being there, but in general, if your words or actions cause further actions because of how they were interpreted, then your actions are binding as such. In other words, if what you conveyed caused them to believe you said you were calling, and they acted on that, then you called.
 
It's really tough to say without being there, but in general, if your words or actions cause further actions because of how they were interpreted, then your actions are binding as such. In other words, if what you conveyed caused them to believe you said you were calling, and they acted on that, then you called.
How does that make sense? How do you control how anyone interprets your words? That just seems exploitable. If I say "I don't know if I should call, raise or fold" then what action am I bound to? If a player puts in chips to denote they are calling a raise or goes all In after initially betting, am I now bound to a raise?
 
Not a call. If I was in villain’s shoes I’d go: ”was that a call?”, before doing anything else.

Edit: if I was at all confused, that is. Which I wouldn’t have been based on what you said.
 
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Not a Call, it's his fault for showing his cards too soon
Dont think he actually showed his hand.

One more thing is he might actually also have been trying to get you to fold by acting eager to show his hand when he saw you were getting close to calling. That he was in fact acting to entice you to fold. Lol, pretty horrible result for him if that's the case.

Generally I think one should try to be careful saying things that can be misinterpreted at the poker table. It seema to happen something like this reaaonably often.

And even more importantly - don't ever show your cards unless you are a hundred percent certain your opponent has in fact called. Rather do an unintended slow roll for a few seconds once in a while rather than expose your cards too early.
 
What OP said could be seen as angle shooting, even though in reality it wasn’t. It’s a dog-eat-dog world out there and while that might not have been considered a call at a casino, in my friendly game I would have ruled it as such for the reason @RainmanTrail mentioned.
so no thinking out aloud? if thats considered an angle then we should ban all talking during a hand then. No word play to fish for info?

Im solidly in the camp of paying attention to the game when you are in a hand. you are responsible for for what happens and your actions 100%. Dealer mucks your cards accidentally. Bad luck. protect your hand. Im harsh like that.
 
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How does that make sense? How do you control how anyone interprets your words? That just seems exploitable.

It is exploitable. Very much so. That's why you'll get different rulings at different card rooms, and even different rulings by the same floor man from one hand to another whenever this stuff comes up (and it happens all the time). They try to judge intent. But it's not always easy to do. Depending on how someone says, "I think I have to call", they can intend different things. Pauses in the phrasing, vocal inflections at certain points in the sentence, it all plays a role. And it's why you should be clear about your actions when speaking in turn. It really could be ruled both ways, and a fair ruling would require you to be there and hear it first hand, in my opinion.

If I say "I don't know if I should call, raise or fold" then what action am I bound to? If a player puts in chips to denote they are calling a raise or goes all In after initially betting, am I now bound to a raise?

This is very different.
 
It is exploitable. Very much so. That's why you'll get different rulings at different card rooms, and even different rulings by the same floor man from one hand to another whenever this stuff comes up (and it happens all the time). They try to judge intent. But it's not always easy to do. Depending on how someone says, "I think I have to call", they can intend different things. Pauses in the phrasing, vocal inflections at certain points in the sentence, it all plays a role. And it's why you should be clear about your actions when speaking in turn. It really could be ruled both ways, and a fair ruling would require you to be there and hear it first hand, in my opinion.
all my opinions are based on OP. my opinion would likely change with different wording etc.
 
So……I was in this game and mind you it was getting pretty late and In that initial moment when @upNdown said what he said and then paused I thought it was a call because I heard the word “Call”. I believe I was even dealing this hand just to add to it but now that I’ve slept on it (literally) I think the “I think I’m going to” part separates it from being an actual call.
 
So……I was in this game and mind you it was getting pretty late and In that initial moment when @upNdown said what he said and then paused I thought it was a call because I heard the word “Call”. I believe I was even dealing this hand just to add to it but now that I’ve slept on it (literally) I think the “I think I’m going to” part separates it from being an actual call.
Actually it wasn’t that late… I was just tired to begin with so there you have it. Poor judgement on my part. Ha!
 
really a tough one to judge without being present. but i assume i know all parties involved, and if your dealer/floor guy buddy thought it was a call, it probably did come off as a call. however, i wouldn't personally have held you to it in a friendly game if you explained what you were going to say prior to any cards being tabled.

nh
 
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I’m in @RainmanTrail camp.

So, according to some of you, I could say “call.. “ pause “is what I should do”. Pause, player tables hand, “but fold”….

And that’s all table talk ??

If someone says “I have to call”, that’s a call. You can’t just put “I think” in a sentence to make your actions non-binding. Those shouldn’t have been spoken. It’s borderline for sure. In my game, with no other words spoken, I would have ruled it a call.

If you said “i think I have the right odds” .. that’s not a call .
 
What OP said could be seen as angle shooting, even though in reality it wasn’t. It’s a dog-eat-dog world out there and while that might not have been considered a call at a casino, in my friendly game I would have ruled it as such for the reason @RainmanTrail mentioned.
I agree with this.

The phrasing makes it seem like a bit of old-school string bet phrasing (and obviously it was not intended as such). The catch of course is there was more information to be coming from the person who uttered it but the actionable part is the first bit. As noted above ”I’m thinking of calling“ it’s significantly different and probably the better phrase for this situation.

There’s also an interesting bit of linguistics here. “I think I’m going to have to” can certainly operate colloquially as “I am pondering” but I think most often as “I am in fact going to” and/or “I am in fact doing so”

e.g. “ I think I’m going to have to have another beer“

I bet most people here would have an absolute understanding of what that last sentence means. I know I do. And in fact it’s making me thirsty right now.

With all of that said I can see decisions going either way though I would defer to the friendly game scenarios.
 
Maybe there can’t be an absolute answer/rule but I think it’s usually possible to determine whether such a statement is genuine or designed to elicit a specific action, aka an angle. I didn’t read this specific situation like an attempt to angle but I guess it could have been depending on how it was said, for example.
 
Not a call if it were in my card room.

But I can understand @RainmanTrail s points on how this could be interpreted differently depending upon what card room your playing in.

Not a fan of speeches at the card table by players in hands. Keep it simple and just announce “call” “raise” or “fold.”
 
Very specifically not a call at my table. Situations like this arise not to infrequently, specifically from two of our players. I usually immediately jump in to make sure no one does something rash and ask “so are you calling or not?”.
 
If someone says “I have to call”, that’s a call. You can’t just put “I think” in a sentence to make your actions non-binding. Those shouldn’t have been spoken. It’s borderline for sure. In my game, with no other words spoken, I would have ruled it a call.

but that's still not what he said. he said "I think I’m going to have to call"

i really think this is "you had to be there" situation.
 
I keep it simple at my table, I am the only opinion that matters. If I said it was a call, it was a call. If I say it wasn’t, it wasn’t.

All my players know this, and trust my ruling. I’ve had to lock in a few verbal actions and bind them, one was an all in that lost. He was poopy about it, but it was clear. It all depends on what was said and how it’s said.

LPT House Rules:
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I don't think it uncommon for someone who are making a decision and in a blender to say something like

I got a good hand, I might have to call
I got a bluff catcher, I felt like I will call

But that didn't mean he is calling for sure, it not as straight forward as I Call
 

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