Did I play this hand wrong?

Jonesey07

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Hand #326919-135 - 2021-07-07 22:20:52
Game: PL Omaha-5 Hi-Lo ($1 - 100) - Blinds 0.10/0.20
Site: Windy Crest Poker
Table: Big PLO8 ($.10/$.20)
Seat 1: Beakertwang (146.25)
Seat 2: Lazer (98.65)
Seat 3: upNdown (99.95)
Seat 4: DoubleEagle (76.90)
Seat 5: Aces_Loaded (48.45)
Seat 6: IaHawk (105.60)
Seat 7: Jonesey07 (59.20)
Seat 8: PayOffWizard (100)
DoubleEagle has the dealer button
Aces_Loaded posts small blind 0.10
IaHawk posts big blind 0.20

** Hole Cards ** [8 players]
Dealt to Jonesey07 [:5d::4d::jd::jh::ks:]
Jonesey07 calls 0.20
PayOffWizard folds
Beakertwang folds
Lazer calls 0.20
upNdown calls 0.20
DoubleEagle calls 0.20
Aces_Loaded raises to 0.80
IaHawk calls 0.60
Jonesey07 calls 0.60
Lazer calls 0.60
upNdown calls 0.60
DoubleEagle calls 0.60

** Flop ** [:2d::js::8c:]
Aces_Loaded bets 2.60
IaHawk calls 2.60
Jonesey07 raises to 15.10
Lazer folds
upNdown folds
DoubleEagle folds
Aces_Loaded calls 12.50
IaHawk folds

** Turn ** [:kh:]
Aces_Loaded bets 32.55 (All-in)
Jonesey07 calls 32.55
** River ** [:ts:]

Aces_Loaded shows [:7s::ah::qs::3s::6c:] (Hi: a Straight, Ten to Ace Lo: None)
Jonesey07 shows [:5d::4d::jd::jh::ks:] (Hi: Three of a Kind, Jacks +KT Lo: None)
Aces_Loaded wins Pot (102.60) with a Straight
No low hand qualified
 

JMC9389

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Tough break not getting the chop. I don't think you played poorly. That's a pretty dry board after the turn and you had a draw to a low hand. You could fold to villain's all in here but that's a pretty nitty play with so much of your money already in. Not much you can do when the villain hit the miracle ten to spike the straight and scoop when they were after the nut low.

My only critique would be that the raise after the flop was a bit high, but it accomplished the mission of getting heads up going into the next two streets. It didn't work out for you this time around but you're at least chopping this the significant majority of the time and getting half of a small pot of dead money.
 

utgtrash

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consider how many turn cards cut your equity in half or to zero? the king is your best non board pair card, but anything else gives your opponent a straight or a free roll with anything better than a 45 low. at that point even if you’re ahead for high you really can’t bet. a board pair on the turn gives you a free roll on low draws but besides that it’s really a lousy hand, even though it is the nuts on the flop.
 

Legend5555

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UTG? Fold this every time preflop.

As played, you did nothing wrong. Your low draw of trash, but it's not dead. I'd just expect you end up chopping here a lot when you get action. In Big O, you really don't want to be pushing mostly one way high hands like this unless there is 0 or 1 low cards on the board. Villain was getting VERY frisky betting a naked nut low draw into the field. One way hands are generally trash in Big O. His only high potential is all backdoor. So if he wanted to check call, I could understand. But this bet/call line is atrocious and he got lucky. It happens. This kind of stuff is why good Big O players straight up demolish bad ones.
 

Anthony Martino

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1. Fold pre, this is NOT a big O hand you should be playing

2. Flop and turn look fine. You can fold out some better low draws with your raise, and even the opponent that called should be folding as they only have the low draw with some backdoors, not really a hand to go to war with
 

Chippy McChiperson

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Actually I'm going to disagree with the turn aggression. We have second set, and block top set, sure. But what river card are we hoping for? Any card that doesn't pair the board either is a likely split or takes away the effective nuts from us (i.e. puts a potential straight out there). That's why sets are overrated in omaha, and especially omaha hi lo. As played, I'd call the turn, and proceed with caution on the river. If a non-straightening card comes on the river, we can then put pressure on the pot and maybe get half a big pot if two people happen to have the nut low.
 

Anthony Martino

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Actually I'm going to disagree with the turn aggression. We have second set, and block top set, sure. But what river card are we hoping for? Any card that doesn't pair the board either is a likely split or takes away the effective nuts from us (i.e. puts a potential straight out there). That's why sets are overrated in omaha, and especially omaha hi lo. As played, I'd call the turn, and proceed with caution on the river. If a non-straightening card comes on the river, we can then put pressure on the pot and maybe get half a big pot if two people happen to have the nut low.

What turn aggression? Jonesy called his opponents all-in. He has the effective nuts, as he blocks the turned top set. He's heads-up, there is no third player who is in the pot to make a nut low going to the river?
 

Chippy McChiperson

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Sorry I misrembered the hand, i thought he potted it on the turn and called it off on the river. Yeah, you def have to call the turn shove, since you block top set, and pray for the best. I still think you're way behind A3TQx which is what I'd assume he had.
 

Anthony Martino

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Sorry I misrembered the hand, i thought he potted it on the turn and called it off on the river. Yeah, you def have to call the turn shove, since you block top set, and pray for the best. I still think you're way behind A3TQx which is what I'd assume he had.

If his opponent has the hand you are putting him on, Jonesy is a slight equity favorite:

fantasy_odds.png


Given the hand his opponent actually had, Jonesey was a much larger favorite

real_odds.png
 

mike32

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Fold > raise > call
I think this is true for approximately 88% of Big O holdings lol!

But yeah @Jonesey07 I don't often practice what I preach but getting rid of one way hands in Big O is almost always a winning strategy. Maybe seeing a cheap flop if you can get away with it once in a while with a high only hand, but even that has led me to ruin when the low gets there and someone's straight or flush inevitably beats my set.
 

MrCatPants

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I think this is true for approximately 88% of Big O holdings lol!

But yeah @Jonesey07 I don't often practice what I preach but getting rid of one way hands in Big O is almost always a winning strategy. Maybe seeing a cheap flop if you can get away with it once in a while with a high only hand, but even that has led me to ruin when the low gets there and someone's straight or flush inevitably beats my set.
Just to add to this - if you're going to play high only hands you'd generally want them to to be stronger than this as well - people will continue with overpairs/wraps/two pair hands with low draws on that flop.

After that flop, a king or a paired card are the only safe or favorable cards - everything else brings straights/lows/flush draws and cuts your equity. I started asking myself "even if I hit a nearly perfect flop here, will I still be nervous? If the answer is yes (it is with this hand), fold pre.
 

MrCatPants

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Just to add to this - if you're going to play high only hands you'd generally want them to to be stronger than this as well - people will continue with overpairs/wraps/two pair hands with low draws on that flop.

After that flop, a king or a paired card are the only safe or favorable cards - everything else brings straights/lows/flush draws and cuts your equity. I started asking myself "even if I hit a nearly perfect flop here, will I still be nervous? If the answer is yes (it is with this hand), fold pre.
BTW - see this recent PAHWM I posted to show how gross flopping a mediocre top set can get.

https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/pahwm-big-o-cash-game.76394/
 

cosmokramer

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Of course, at first i agreed on the (theoretically) pre fold.
In theory that is.
Then I thought, in all honesty, thats exactly me at small stakes online.
Call against better knowledge in hope of top set, flop it, the rest of the hand plays itself anyways, get sucked out and blame it on variance :D
 

upNdown

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Of course, at first i agreed on the (theoretically) pre fold.
In theory that is.
Then I thought, in all honesty, thats exactly me at small stakes online.
Call against better knowledge in hope of top set, flop it, the rest of the hand plays itself anyways, get sucked out and blame it on variance :D
Lately I’ve been playing a lot more hands at the micro stakes bigO. It’s more fun, but you have to be careful every step of the way and you have to be honest with yourself. If there’s a straight draw or a flush draw, chances are the other guy (or guys) are in the hand, because they’re chasing it. And it’s REALLY hard to get a board to run out with no 5-card hand possibilities.
 

Jimulacrum

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Barring very specific game conditions, fold preflop. It's a speculative high-only hand where the high part is just so-so; the 45 part can make a low but will more often trap you than help you. I like to set-mine as much as the next guy, but that's a big disadvantage.

Even if you were on the button, you'd need to know that you can see a very cheap flop, you'll get paid off big when you catch top set (and ideally fill up), and you have the experience/discipline to avoid spewing when you catch trap hands.

On the flop, I'm a fan of playing this slowly. In O8 (and especially 5-card), top set is usually a drawing hand regardless of board texture. With two low cards on the flop, your situation is much worse because you're often only drawing for half. You really want to see the turn pair the board. That's 7 outs, just short of an open-ender. Some high cards (like this K) are okay, but they all make straights and straight draws possible, and of course the dreaded Turned Top Set. Boating up is really what you want to be confident enough to liquidate a 300 BB stack. Quads would be nice. Everything else is in the margins.

As played, you're kinda locked in on the turn. You built up this big pot, it's one bet left, and the board didn't change so dramatically that it's reasonable to fold. Sometimes you'll run into KK, and that's poker. Sometimes you'll run into 22 and 88 with no low draw too (but don't count on it). You'll usually be ahead on the high and dead on the low in this spot, which ain't that bad when it's just a low draw, but still, there are much better spots in this game.
 
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