Dealing with bad sessions (1 Viewer)

[Bill_Man618]

Hey I need some advice on improving my mental game after sessions. I’m trying to play 1/2 a few times a week and did my first actual session today. Played for a little over 4 hours and lost $400 of which ~$230 was mine. I don’t think I played particularly poorly and in fact was happy with my discipline and the fact that I mainted a clear head after losing KK<AK and managed to make it back to about $500. But I then got sucked out on when my aces were cracked by a river straight and lost a big one. But was able to make the disciplined lay down on the river. I was also happy that I didn’t get tilted and was able to make the lay down. Ultimately, I ran QQ into KK and once again lost and called it a night after the frustrating session. But, I’m already questioning myself and plays even though most were coolers and that generally leads me to play a worse game. I lose my confidence and overfold and underbulff. I’m thinking about calling it quits on the whole endeavor and staking my friends until I’m able to get a job and have a steady income. For reference my goal is to be able to play as a side income and use the money to better position myself for early retirement. Thanks to anyone who made it this far!

 

[Goldfish]

Try playing PLO!

Try pondering this bad beat - I have 9988 double suited. After some big (and exciting) pre flop raising between 3 of us (other 2 guys have AA and KK, of course), the flop comes 933. Yum yum. the turn is a 8. Haha. It all goes in 3 way. We run it twice. K on the first run, A on the second. They chop me up. F#$k poker.

Point is if ur gonna play professionally or semi professionally (for income purposes), you gonna need some thick skin. Best advice I can give is play within ur bank roll parameters and try not to let the bad beats bother you. The run good will happen. I am sure people like @Anthony Martino can chime in and provide you with some better advice.

Good luck!

 

[Colquhoun]

It sounds like you were getting the money in when you had the right odds and were able to back off when you needed to. If youre making the right decisions, the winners will come. Do you feel that you should have played any of these hands differently? If not, dont let a suckout throw you off.
If the suckouts (that are bound to happen) really bother you, it could be that the current stakes are too high?

 

[tabletalker7]

This is gonna sound stupid but it helped me a lot so here goes ......

Get one of these

I got one of these stupid things many years ago. It was able to teach me how I was drawing in bad spots. It was able to teach me how I overvalued hands like AJ, A10, KQ, and KJ. It did that without costing me a fortune at the table. Having some means to practice without said practice emptying your pockets is a game changer, and this stupid game is actually really good. Poker is just like anything else. You need to keep practicing to get good and stay good. This lets you practice for free.

 

[bergs]

Try playing PLO!
View attachment 1132741

Try pondering this bad beat - I have 9988 double suited. After some big (and exciting) pre flop raising between 3 of us (other 2 guys have AA and KK, of course), the flop comes 933. Yum yum. the turn is a 8. Haha. It all goes in 3 way. We run it twice. K on the first run, A on the second. They chop me up. F#$k poker.

Point is if ur gonna play professionally or semi professionally (for income purposes), you gonna need some thick skin. Best advice I can give is play within ur bank roll parameters and try not to let the bad beats bother you. The run good will happen. I am sure people like @Anthony Martino can chime in and provide you with some better advice.

Good luck!

Fold pre obv (lolololol)

 

[Anthony Martino]

Hey I need some advice on improving my mental game after sessions. I’m trying to play 1/2 a few times a week and did my first actual session today. Played for a little over 4 hours and lost $400 of which ~$230 was mine. I don’t think I played particularly poorly and in fact was happy with my discipline and the fact that I mainted a clear head after losing KK<AK and managed to make it back to about $500. But I then got sucked out on when my aces were cracked by a river straight and lost a big one. But was able to make the disciplined lay down on the river. I was also happy that I didn’t get tilted and was able to make the lay down. Ultimately, I ran QQ into KK and once again lost and called it a night after the frustrating session. But, I’m already questioning myself and plays even though most were coolers and that generally leads me to play a worse game. I lose my confidence and overfold and underbulff. I’m thinking about calling it quits on the whole endeavor and staking my friends until I’m able to get a job and have a steady income. For reference my goal is to be able to play as a side income and use the money to better position myself for early retirement. Thanks to anyone who made it this far!

I tend to get more upset if I played bad rather than losing to suckouts or coolers.

Still, I'm not immune to tilt and if you recognize it creeping in you need to rack up and leave the session, rather than stay and permit it to impact your play

IF you feel unlucky it can become a self-fulfilling prophecy as you let that dark cloud hang over you

 

[greenchip]

My mental game on any gambling when I don’t have a steady income is rough either, so I haven’t been gambling a lot lately, including home poker. Like if I lose $500, it hurts me mentally since I know I can’t get back with my next paycheck.

Only chipping now, since we know that’s not gambling, just collecting what’s used for gambling. Personally, slowing down lately because of financial issues.

Went to Vegas to pick up chips last week, but I only played tables for like 30 min with switching 3-4 tables to grab chips. High limit $100 3:2 double deck for like 3 hands or until I’m down $200, $25 3:2 continuous shuffle BJ for 10 min, then $15 6:5 continuous shuffle BJ for 15 min. Was up $500, if I had a job I probably dumped it, but I’ve got no job now so kept precious and converted to chips. My last Vegas visit was down so figured smart money to keep that.

I left Vegas with no cash, but I’m still a winner because I’ve got crap ton of chips that’s sure worth more than FV, speaking of Mirage.

When I had a job last December, I went to Vegas and was totally brutal on BJ with me having 20 and dealer having 21 (not BJ, but hands that add up to 21). Yeah if it’s poker, yeah I feel shit when someone wins me over with just one card ranking higher or flush vs myself feeling overconfident about stronger two pairs like AAKK. Sometimes any decision can make you a winner, but another day a loser. Take it easy and yeah I wish the best on job searching too.

 

[doublebooyah85]

For a small little steady side income I’d possibly consider another job. Poker for a job can be TOUGH and can ruin the hobby. No doubt you should keep track of your sessions even if you’re a rec, and it sounds like you played well and are self aware, but it’s a tough tough tough gig. I’m guessing playing $1-$2 professionally would equate to about $20/hour. Is it worth ruining a hobby you enjoy? Bc as a job it very well may.

Best of luck and stay sharp! Talking about your sessions and doing hand recaps with us and other players is a great start. Keep sharing but with more details!

How did you lose KK<AK? Preflop?

What was the action QQ<KK? Was it avoidable? A player you knew?

How did you play the AA? On the river they got out on you. But what was the action leading up to it.

 

[Goldfish]

Fold pre obv (lolololol)

 

[Rhodeman77]

If a single $400 loss (pretty much a little over 1 buy-in) in $1/2 is having you question if you should continue, then you are not ready for those stakes yet. Regardless of how you played the hands, $400 losses will happen regularly.

Much like a QB that just threw an interception, you have to have a short memory and get right back out there and do it again.

Like everyone else said above, if you are making good decisions, getting your chips in ahead, or getting the right price to call for your draw, then that is all you can control and variance will run it course. Sometimes you win most of the big pots. But sometimes you are the bug on the windshield. How you handle the times you are the bug and not the windshield will determine your long term success.

 

[JustinInMN]

Hey I need some advice on improving my mental game after sessions. I’m trying to play 1/2 a few times a week and did my first actual session today. Played for a little over 4 hours and lost $400 of which ~$230 was mine.

@Rhodeman77 beat me to it, but I 100% agree. If losing 200BB in 4 hours bothers you to the point of making this thread, this is a sign you are significantly under-rolled to make a go at this as a pro.

Swings of 500BB-1000BB or more one way or another are not that unusual. Casual players don't need to care about a bankroll too much, they know what they can afford out of their "real world income," (though I think most still underestimate the swings of NLHE.) But for a pro, a bankroll of 4K-6K is probably the least you should start with to try and beat 1-2. Losing 400 out of that bankroll is hardly a dent of concern.

And the pressure of your job situation can certainly affect you adversely in play. It's the root cause of your doubt and you run the risk of blaming personal mistakes instead of bad luck for short term fortune. It's different when it's your only source of income and you are just starting out, unsure of whether you will make the nut. My brother was a full time pro for a long time. (I have never been, but I was certainly beating games part-time before family and kids.) Once he got steady, almost never risked more than 2% of his roll in a session.

Bottom line, I suspect where you are financially, you need to stop playing, and stop staking people until you have regular income again. Then you can start taking shots at building a bankroll.

Even as a casual player now, I never enter a NL game unless I am prepared to lose 300-400BB through no fault of my own. That's just an occupational hazard. If you are a pro, you should have 5-10x that in your reserve.

 

[Bill_Man618]

For a small little steady side income I’d possibly consider another job. Poker for a job can be TOUGH and can ruin the hobby. No doubt you should keep track of your sessions even if you’re a rec, and it sounds like you played well and are self aware, but it’s a tough tough tough gig. I’m guessing playing $1-$2 professionally would equate to about $20/hour. Is it worth ruining a hobby you enjoy? Bc as a job it very well may.

Best of luck and stay sharp! Talking about your sessions and doing hand recaps with us and other players is a great start. Keep sharing but with more details!

How did you lose KK<AK? Preflop?

What was the action QQ<KK? Was it avoidable? A player you knew?

How did you play the AA? On the river they got out on you. But what was the action leading up to it.

The AK v KK hand was all in pre for ~$280.

The action on the KK>QQ was also preflop. He 4! to $100 and I jammed for the additional $87 and he called. I went over this one with a friend and he said it’s less than 200bbs pre so it’s pretty much a cooler. I think I could’ve gotten away had I remembered the player and his friend had made some comments about playing tighter a few hours earlier. But I feel like it couldn’t have been atrocious.

The AA hand was as follows

UTG is a middle aged male from Miami. Very stationy pre and will call down with draws hoping to hit.

Hero is 20-25 year old male playing in a college towns local room

UTG raises to $7

Folds to hero in CO looks down at AcAs 3! to $20

UTG calls

Flop ($43) Qc8c5s

UTG checks

Hero bets $15

UTG calls

Turn ($73) Qc8c5sXs

UTG check

Hero $50

UTG calls

River ($173) Qc8c5sXsTs

UTG bets $120

Hero folds

UTG says got there and shows J9 for the straight

I had a read that he was on a draw since he was check calling and looked really uncomfortable calling the $50. Plus the $120 sink showing strength when the flush and straight draws got in I didn’t see how the AA could be good against that player.

 

[Bill_Man618]

I did make a few mistakes or misplays. One of the ones I’m unsure about is this hand:

Hero is UTG
V is in MP and is a younger male 20-25 and is a college student at the local university

Hero opens UTG to $10 with 77
Villian in MP calls
BTN calls
BB calls

Flop ($41) AA5
Checks to Villian who makes it $15
Hero calls

Turn ($70) AA57
Hero checks
Villain (MP) bets $60
Hero thinks and raises to $190
My logic was that if he has a middling pocket pair which I thought was his most likely holding he folds to the raise anyway. So I sized big to target an ace rag type hand that has trips.
He tank folds 88 and says he didn’t think I had anything and he wanted to call.

 

[Bill_Man618]

If a single $400 loss (pretty much a little over 1 buy-in) in $1/2 is having you question if you should continue, then you are not ready for those stakes yet. Regardless of how you played the hands, $400 losses will happen regularly.

Much like a QB that just threw an interception, you have to have a short memory and get right back out there and do it again.

Like everyone else said above, if you are making good decisions, getting your chips in ahead, or getting the right price to call for your draw, then that is all you can control and variance will run it course. Sometimes you win most of the big pots. But sometimes you are the bug on the windshield. How you handle the times you are the bug and not the windshield will determine your long term success.

So I have set aside ~$4k to play with and am just having friends stake me/staking them to spread the risk and suffer less variance. The logic was that while yes we could play under seperate $4k rolls we could also take like 25% of each others action and our wins and losses will be smaller. But we should have less variance. I also have more money set aside I’m comfortable pulling from to replenish the roll. The job situation is sub-optimal for right now, but I have a finace degree from a good university so securing a steady income source shouldn’t be an issue. I’m overall happy with my play last night and was honestly frustrated at the results. Nobody likes losing $400 in one night, but like everyone’s said that’s just how it goes sometimes. I met all of the goals I had for the session and at least plan to continue playing with the $4k roll I have. I’m also planning on playing micros to boost the roll and get practice. Also am going to try to put in as many hours studying as I do playing. I might make a thread for the bankroll journey.

 

[TheOffalo]

I did make a few mistakes or misplays. One of the ones I’m unsure about is this hand:

Hero is UTG
V is in MP and is a younger male 20-25 and is a college student at the local university

Hero opens UTG to $10 with 77
Villian in MP calls
BTN calls
BB calls

Flop ($41) AA5
Checks to Villian who makes it $15
Hero calls

Turn ($70) AA57
Hero checks
Villain (MP) bets $60
Hero thinks and raises to $190
My logic was that if he has a middling pocket pair which I thought was his most likely holding he folds to the raise anyway. So I sized big to target an ace rag type hand that has trips.
He tank folds 88 and says he didn’t think I had anything and he wanted to call.

I'm nowhere near as good at hand analysis as many others, but I think you played this well.

You opened with 5x, so you could definitely have Ax in your range. Villain's small tester bet in late position makes sense, as does your check-call. If you were repping Ax, you could have raised, but that would likely have been an instafold from V. Like the check-raise on the turn, you got an extra $60 out of V; he'd probably have folded to a min-raise with that board, so I don't think you could have gotten any more money out of him, but I like the ~3x raise.

 

[k9dr]

Most of my bad sessions in casino NLH involve flopping top set vs a flush draw. All the money goes in and I have lost more of those than I have won. It is frustrating, but I don't think I would play it any differently.

If I am still enjoying the game I rebuy, if not I leave. There is always tomorrow.

 

[CraigT78]

Try playing PLO!
View attachment 1132741

Try pondering this bad beat - I have 9988 double suited. After some big (and exciting) pre flop raising between 3 of us (other 2 guys have AA and KK, of course), the flop comes 933. Yum yum. the turn is a 8. Haha. It all goes in 3 way. We run it twice. K on the first run, A on the second. They chop me up. F#$k poker.

Point is if ur gonna play professionally or semi professionally (for income purposes), you gonna need some thick skin. Best advice I can give is play within ur bank roll parameters and try not to let the bad beats bother you. The run good will happen. I am sure people like @Anthony Martino can chime in and provide you with some better advice.

Good luck!

That's my all time favorite poker meme

 

[Taghkanic]

For reference my goal is to be able to play as a side income and use the money to better position myself for early retirement.

To be honest, I suspect that you (and your partners) would need to grind up to at least 2/5 to derive income significant enough to help with retirement.

The casino rake at 1/2 makes it hard to yield enough to make enough to matter, plus even on a good night you may be looking at only $200-$300 profit.

At that level, unless you are going to play 4+ times per week, with the swings it’s not going to amount to much even if you are a winning player overall.

And that is still going to require a lot of tolerance for bad nights/weeks/months…

A more conventional part-time side job might be better, again TBH.

 

[Bill_Man618]

To be honest, I suspect that you (and your partners) would need to grind up to at least 2/5 to derive income significant enough to help with retirement.

The casino rake at 1/2 makes it hard to yield enough to make enough to matter, plus even on a good night you may be looking at only $200-$300 profit.

At that level, unless you are going to play 4+ times per week, with the swings it’s not going to amount to much even if you are a winning player overall.

And that is still going to require a lot of tolerance for bad nights/weeks/months…

A more conventional part-time side job might be better, again TBH.

I mean yeah I definitely am not going to make significant income to help with retirement at 1/2. But I’m also not good enough to beat 5/10 where I could make that money. For now I’m just trying to grind up to $10k and then from there I can take small shots at 2/5 and continue to grind up to a 2/5 bankroll. I have a loooooong time before I retire man. Right now I’m getting experience at lower stakes and while playing for income is the long term goal I’m setting a goal of like $3k profit over summer and 20-30hrs of play a week.

 

[Bill_Man618]

Also some of the 1/2 games I play in are private and they are softer than the casino and rake free.

 

[Taghkanic]

Got it.

Note that a complicating factor when planning decades ahead for retirement is to account for cost-of-living increases. $3K won every summer will not be worth nearly as much to you in 20-40 years if it is sitting in a cash poker bankroll, uninvested.

You could consider a move up in stakes a plan for growing that money, long-term... But it could also be lost.

Assuming all goes well pokerwise, might want to ponder how much you plan to set aside from winnings as an actual retirement investment, rather than always adding 100% to your roll/moving up in stakes.

 

[Goldfish]

Nobody likes losing $400 in one night, but like everyone’s said that’s just how it goes sometimes.

well, now I feel like a complete degenerate ………..

 

[JustinInMN]

So I have set aside ~$4k to play with and am just having friends stake me/staking them to spread the risk and suffer less variance. The logic was that while yes we could play under seperate $4k rolls we could also take like 25% of each others action and our wins and losses will be smaller. But we should have less variance. I also have more money set aside I’m comfortable pulling from to replenish the roll.

Well at least the amounts are right, but I am skeptical of staking deals when you become responsible for someone else's play.

But assuming you have this set aside for poker I need to ask the personal question. In terms of time, how long will your other resources last before you have to get a "real world" paycheck?

Edit to add. If you want to keep the answer to yourself, that's fine, but the answer could be an answer to the stress of what is a pretty run-of-the-mill loss.

 

[Frogzilla]

My advice, and I handle losses pretty well, is have a better expectation of variance, a better understanding of luck, and play at stakes that are not painful to go through a rough stretch.


As to variance, if you are playing 4 hour sessions, even as a winning player with a big edge, you are going to profit around 55% of the time. 45% you’ll have an L. If you play 4 days a week, every week, you will lose every day for the whole week every 6 months. Not as much edge, then you’ll lose even more. You’re going to lose more than a buy-in 1 out of 3 days, you’re gonna lose 2+ buy-ins 1 out of 10 days. It’s common and unavoidable.


As to luck…say you get it in pre with AA vs A4s where A4s 5-bet jammed BB and you called it off BU. Safe flop of KKQ, but turn and river were running One view is that A4s got quite lucky. Insanely lucky. You were 99-1 on the flop. Or you were 87-13 preflop. But another view is you were close to 50-50 predeal. The AA is lucky card distro, especially being up against a bluff with a blocker and in just the right position to get stacks in.

 

[Bill_Man618]

Well at least the amounts are right, but I am skeptical of staking deals when you become responsible for someone else's play.

But assuming you have this set aside for poker I need to ask the personal question. In terms of time, how long will your other resources last before you have to get a "real world" paycheck?

Edit to add. If you want to keep the answer to yourself, that's fine, but the answer could be an answer to the stress of what is a pretty run-of-the-mill loss.

I can comfortably live until I get a job. Income or not my rent and food will be paid and on the table and if I lose the roll my financial situation won’t be significantly affected. I likely won’t have considerable bills until I get a job and rent my own apartment. For now I am living at home until I get a job and helping my parents with chores and projects to carry my weight. I also want to play because at home there’s very little to do so I figure that the downtime could be well spent studying poker and getting better. I’m also planning on studying for grad school and other things. Taking a shot at 1/2 to move up in stakes has been a goal of mine though which is why I’m giving it a shot.

 

[allforcharity]

I've been on a cooler for what seems like months. I only play with fun money so it doesn't impact my financial position at all, and may it never do so.

 

[Bill_Man618]

Note that a complicating factor when planning decades ahead for retirement is to account for cost-of-living increases. $3K won every summer will not be worth nearly as much to you in 20-40 years if it is sitting in a cash poker bankroll, uninvested.

You could consider a move up in stakes a plan for growing that money, long-term... But it could also be lost.

Assuming all goes well pokerwise, might want to ponder how much you plan to set aside from winnings as an actual retirement investment, rather than always adding 100% to your roll/moving up in stakes.

I know that $3k won in a summer is basically a micro drop in the bucket for investing. But once I have a job and can more frequently replenish the roll I plan to start doing a 50/50 split of my monthly profit. So 50% goes to the roll and 50% to investments.

 

[Talrem]

I know exactly how you feel!
It seems my luck is stuck in the “You’re getting screwed every hand!” position. It’s not that you are playing your hands wrong or not betting correctly, it’s just that the cards don’t go your way.
I play in a bar poker league 2-3 times a week (for ranking, not cash), and every session there’s 2-3 tournaments per evening during the week. For the past two months I was losing almost every hand with these criteria:
1. I have the best hand pre-flop (AK vs A5 OS) and they catch bottom pair to win.
2. Calling with marginal hands with cards that flopped for the past five hands and catching nothing. (Only a handful of times!)
3. Folding constant rags/marginal hands against raises and then have the nuts with that folded hand.
4. Calling with suited connectors and that suit/straight is nowhere on board.
5. Flopping two pair (A5 suited) all-in short-stacked and player gets better two pair (AQ), usually on the river.
6. Player calls your high hand with marginal/rag hand and sucks out, usually on the river.

If you can think of a losing scenario, I’ve had it happen to me for the past two months straight! It’s gotten to the point where I’m calling exactly how I’m going to lose and it happens! I’d be rich if I bet money every time it’s happened!

Is it frustrating? Absolutely!
Did I make any bad plays? Not when a lot of my chips were at risk or blinded out.
Did I review all the plays I made in my head? Yes. To determine if/when I made a bad fold/call/raise/bluff and not do it again.

It was just bad luck… but I’m still playing. After going on hiatus for a while I jumped right back into it - the game and the bad beats too. It’s an unfortunate circumstance that comes with the game. You can have the best strategies and make all the right moves, but it all comes down to the cards on the board. Your pocket aces can get cracked, and your rags could bring you riches - it all depends on those five community cards.

The best way to deal with all the bad beats, bad luck, and bad plays is to let the anger and frustration trickle out, review, analyze, and strategize. Oh… and remember to have fun, too!

I‘m not the best poker player, just a regular guy. If I didn’t explain everything clearly enough, it’s because I don’t want to type an essay for every situation mentioned. I can clarify certain instances upon request to give you a better understanding of how it wasn’t anything I did wrong... it was just not in the cards for me to win.