Cash Game Deadly Sins (1 Viewer)

[atomiktoaster]

I skipped a co-worker's 5c/10c game Friday even though he's come when I've hosted. It was the first time since he got his table moved in from out of state, so I asked around for details on how the game ran. There was a list of items that were less than ideal, so I thought I'd get some opinions on which sins were forgivable vs. dealbreakers, as well as arguments to back up my positions. In no particular order:

• Dice chips
• Paper cards
• Two decks with identical backs (the only thing that was identified as an issue. They dropped to one deck eventually)
• Busted players rebought by giving cash to the big stack for chips which was pocketed off the table. Cash in play didn't increase
• 5c/10c/25c/50c/$1 denoms all in play
• Table had racetrack with cupholders in it
• Short stacks were allowed to add cash in the middle of a hand to call multi-way raises rather than establishing a side pot.

 

[AdamAAAA]

I could probably only forgive three of those, although that's only if I had to forgive anything at all. Sounds like a bad night all around.

 

[links_slayer]

• Busted players rebought by giving cash to the big stack for chips which was pocketed off the table. Cash in play didn't increase
• Short stacks were allowed to add cash in the middle of a hand to call multi-way raises rather than establishing a side pot.

These are the two that would really bother me and would likely be deal-breakers, particularly if I knew about them ahead of time. I could live with the others.

 

[NicholasAK]

• Dice chips
• Paper cards
• Two decks with identical backs (the only thing that was identified as an issue. They dropped to one deck eventually)
• Busted players rebought by giving cash to the big stack for chips which was pocketed off the table. Cash in play didn't increase
• 5c/10c/25c/50c/$1 denoms all in play
• Table had racetrack with cupholders in it
• Short stacks were allowed to add cash in the middle of a hand to call multi-way raises rather than establishing a side pot.

Chips-forgivable (normal but you ought to bring some chinas over for safety)
Paper cards-forgivable
Identical cards-unforgivable
Cash to bigstack-bad house rules
5 denoms...laughable
Cupholders- forgivable
Stack add on midhand-unforgivable

Whatever donk rules he wants as long as you can still profit and cheating is avoided.

 

[bentax1978]

I skipped a co-worker's 5c/10c game Friday even though he's come when I've hosted. It was the first time since he got his table moved in from out of state, so I asked around for details on how the game ran. There was a list of items that were less than ideal, so I thought I'd get some opinions on which sins were forgivable vs. dealbreakers, as well as arguments to back up my positions. In no particular order:

• Dice chips
• Paper cards
• Two decks with identical backs (the only thing that was identified as an issue. They dropped to one deck eventually)
• Busted players rebought by giving cash to the big stack for chips which was pocketed off the table. Cash in play didn't increase
• 5c/10c/25c/50c/$1 denoms all in play
• Table had racetrack with cupholders in it
• Short stacks were allowed to add cash in the middle of a hand to call multi-way raises rather than establishing a side pot.

Dice chips - forgivable, and an opportunity to spread the PCF gospel

Paper cards - forgivable, as long as they're new or in decent shape

Two decks with the same back - deal breaker as it jeopardizes the integrity of the game and creates potential problems that don't need to exist

Chips bought off big stacks - not a good house rule, pretty much a deal breaker.

5 denoms in play - borderline, annoying, close to a deal breaker

Table had racetrack with cupholders in it - forgivable, not ideal, but certainly not a huge deal

Short stacks were allowed to add cash - deal breaker, that's not how it works.

 

[chipjoker]

MMmmmmmm Wellllllll,

• Table had racetrack with cupholders in it

• Dice chips (I can forgive this, if they are diferent colors and denoms)..
  
• Paper cards

 

[Forty4]

Dice chips - forgivable, and an opportunity to spread the PCF gospel

Paper cards - forgivable, as long as they're new or in decent shape

Two decks with the same back - deal breaker as it jeopardizes the integrity of the game and creates potential problems that don't need to exist

Chips bought off big stacks - not a good house rule, pretty much a deal breaker.

5 denoms in play - borderline, annoying, close to a deal breaker

Table had racetrack with cupholders in it - forgivable, not ideal, but certainly not a huge deal

Short stacks were allowed to add cash - deal breaker, that's not how it works.

I agree with this. But are they playing HE or are they playing dealers choice? Not that it makes a difference but the mindset of the players is certainly different than ours. It's probably more along the lines of friends getting together to hang out and at most the night is probably $20. Just adding a little flavor to the conversation and we all read (or should have) about the guy over on 2+2 who was manipulating the deck during the hand, same mentality about getting together to hang out. Only other thing I'd do is hoard all the odd chips so they are essentially out of play.

 

[atomiktoaster]

I agree with this. But are they playing HE or are they playing dealers choice? Not that it makes a difference but the mindset of the players is certainly different than ours. It's probably more along the lines of friends getting together to hang out and at most the night is probably $20. Just adding a little flavor to the conversation and we all read (or should have) about the guy over on 2+2 who was manipulating the deck during the hand, same mentality about getting together to hang out. Only other thing I'd do is hoard all the odd chips so they are essentially out of play.

NLHE.

 

[trever]

Players buying chips is forgiveable, ratholing the cash is not.

Mid-hand buyin can be forgiven in a limit game (clearly not recommended), but is unforgiveable in pot or no limit.

 

[detroitdad]

Wouldn't play in this game because of this.

Short stacks were allowed to add cash in the middle of a hand to call multi-way raises rather than establishing a side pot.

Busted players rebought by giving cash to the big stack for chips which was pocketed off the table. Cash in play didn't increase

Then add in the other shit. Screw that. I'll stay home and shuffle my chips.

 

[NicholasAK]

Wouldn't play in this game because of this.




Then add in the other shit. Screw that. I'll stay home and shuffle my chips.

Move to rural N Dakota, you'd be surprised what you'd put up with just to play in ANY poker game. A starving man wont scoff at fishhead stew.

 

[detroitdad]

Move to rural N Dakota, you'd be surprised what you'd put up with just to play in ANY poker game. A starving man wont scoff at fishhead stew.

Spent three damn years in N.D. Wife wanted to stay there after I got out of the service. No thanks, goodbye, lol. I get what what your saying. In that case maybe you need to become a teacher? Introduce them to a nice set up of cards (15 shipped from amazon) as a gift. In one on one sessions with the host explain why taking cash off the table is fucking horrible, ect...

 

[dimperdoo]

only paper cards is forgive-able {not matching though}

i'm assuming the racetrack is a wood surface where you would keep your chips ? ummm, ~no
were it a silksreened/printed line on the felt & cushy chip handling surface extended to the bumper, that's forgive-able {but then, the cupholders are in the rail no?}

 

[MD Mike]

Dice chips - forgivable, and an opportunity to spread the PCF gospel

Paper cards - forgivable, as long as they're new or in decent shape

Two decks with the same back - deal breaker as it jeopardizes the integrity of the game and creates potential problems that don't need to exist

Chips bought off big stacks - not a good house rule, pretty much a deal breaker.

5 denoms in play - borderline, annoying, close to a deal breaker

Table had racetrack with cupholders in it - forgivable, not ideal, but certainly not a huge deal

Short stacks were allowed to add cash - deal breaker, that's not how it works.

@bentax1978 has my answer perfectly.

 

[NicholasAK]

Spent three damn years in N.D. Wife wanted to stay there after I got out of the service. No thanks, goodbye, lol. I get what what your saying. In that case maybe you need to become a teacher? Introduce them to a nice set up of cards (15 shipped from amazon) as a gift. In one on one sessions with the host explain why taking cash off the table is fucking horrible, ect...

Step 1: $20 MAX buyin on $1/$1 blinds...completed (now whatever you like, min $20)
Step 2: Change to controlled homegame environment...working on it. Currently the only regular game going, held in a bar

 

[MillyS]

Dice chips - forgivable, and an opportunity to spread the PCF gospel

Paper cards - forgivable, as long as they're new or in decent shape

Two decks with the same back - deal breaker as it jeopardizes the integrity of the game and creates potential problems that don't need to exist

Chips bought off big stacks - not a good house rule, pretty much a deal breaker.

5 denoms in play - borderline, annoying, close to a deal breaker

Table had racetrack with cupholders in it - forgivable, not ideal, but certainly not a huge deal

Short stacks were allowed to add cash - deal breaker, that's not how it works.

This covers it perfectly, the dice chip has now started to bug me a lot more, even though I am new to the 'proper' world of chips, chip snobbery has kicked in lol

 

[jja412]

I prefer nice chips, full felt tables, plastic cards, and a less diverse denomination spread.

The items that would make me want to puke/leave immediately:
Two identical decks. Terrible rebuy rules (or lack of).

I'd probably never come attend without confirmation that those items had been addressed.

 

[pltrgyst]

The items that would make me want to puke/leave immediately:
Two identical decks. Terrible rebuy rules (or lack of).

I'd probably never come attend without confirmation that those items had been addressed.

Was it Guinness who on CT recounted his epic rebuy story concerning a game at MIT?

 

[courage]

• Busted players rebought by giving cash to the big stack for chips which was pocketed off the table. Cash in play didn't increase
• Short stacks were allowed to add cash in the middle of a hand to call multi-way raises rather than establishing a side pot.

These are the two that would really bother me and would likely be deal-breakers, particularly if I knew about them ahead of time. I could live with the others.

Agreed. Yuck.

 

[BGinGA]

• Dice chips
• Paper cards
• Two decks with identical backs (the only thing that was identified as an issue. They dropped to one deck eventually)
• Busted players rebought by giving cash to the big stack for chips which was pocketed off the table. Cash in play didn't increase
• 5c/10c/25c/50c/$1 denoms all in play
• Table had racetrack with cupholders in it
• Short stacks were allowed to add cash in the middle of a hand to call multi-way raises rather than establishing a side pot.

I was done after the first two, but starting laughing when I got to #3.... and was nearly crying by the time I reached the last one. That's not poker. At least not poker as I play it.

Pass. And probably a waste of time to try and correct it to acceptable terms.

 

[doakwolf]

• 5c/10c/25c/50c/$1 denoms all in play

I'm picturing blank dice chips. Nightmare. If denoms, still semi nightmare haha.

I'll also pass on this game. Too many of those will cause me to flip out.

 

[Marius L]

These are the DEALBREAKERS imo

• 
  
• Busted players rebought by giving cash to the big stack for chips which was pocketed off the table. Cash in play didn't increase
• Short stacks were allowed to add cash in the middle of a hand to call multi-way raises rather than establishing a side pot.

The rest is just very annoying, but not crucial. I'm sure most of us have used bad chips and cards at some point and I wouldn't mind it if the game was profitable/fun (nice group of people). I think I would only have a big problem with the two points above. Taking cash of the table is the number one sin imo. I have never played/heard of a game where players are hving the option to keep adding money while in a hand, but I'm sure it would mess up my strategy on how to play against the short stacks. Would probably be posible to adjust to this though, and maybe use it ourself to our advantage.

To be honest with a game that is run this bad I can only assume a lot of the players are pretty terrible and therefore I would play it because I'm sure it would be profitable. After all it's not a huge deal that money goes of the table if you are the one pocketing it

 

[atomiktoaster]

I was done after the first two, but starting laughing when I got to #3.... and was nearly crying by the time I reached the last one. That's not poker. At least not poker as I play it.

Pass. And probably a waste of time to try and correct it to acceptable terms.

I'm not worried about correcting someone else's game, but this is the same player pool for games I host. The perception that this is part of casual, fun poker makes it seem like my game is uptight and pedantic for having some basic unwritten rules and cash security [emoji53].

 

[atomiktoaster]

• 5c/10c/25c/50c/$1 denoms all in play

I'm picturing blank dice chips. Nightmare. If denoms, still semi nightmare haha.

I'll also pass on this game. Too many of those will cause me to flip out.

Pictured correctly.

 

[NicholasAK]

To be honest with a game that is run this bad I can only assume a lot of the players are pretty terrible and therefore I would play it because I'm sure it would be profitable. After all it's not a huge deal that money goes of the table if you are the one pocketing it

I'd agree with you, except this is a $.05/$.10 game and theres no money to be made there.

 

[Marius L]

I'd agree with you, except this is a $.05/$.10 game and theres no money to be made there.

Thats a good point. In that case the important thing is are the players nice and the atmosphere great? If the money is not important (win or lose) then it might also not be a big deal if sometimes cash are taken of the table. All the points made in the OP certainly suggest that this is not the ideal game to play in, but if the players are really nice and the atmosphere is good, people are having a good time with talking, drinking, etc, then it might still be worth going. Surely only for the social part though, and not for poker.

 

[QuiQuog]

I'd agree with you, except this is a $.05/$.10 game and theres no money to be made there.

What if they wanted to play 25¢/50¢? What rules would you change? I think it would make more sense to adopt standard practice so the players won't look like such donks when they go to other games, or have a new player come to theirs.

At the very least, the OP should keep his own game solid, regardless of how they play at this one.

 

[courage]

I'm not worried about correcting someone else's game, but this is the same player pool for games I host. The perception that this is part of casual, fun poker makes it seem like my game is uptight and pedantic for having some basic unwritten rules and cash security [emoji53].

I'd encourage you to stay the course, and I can relate to the issue. You're smart to participate there if you wish to maintain the social contact and not try to change the game, although the 2 items above are probably dealbreakers and if it were me I'd attend occasionally. Just focus on your game and do what you need to.

When I "inherited" my game and agreed to host I was part of a player pool that did things much more casually and differently; pulling light, limit structure, every chip worth $1 no matter the denom value (lol), making change before action completed, etc. I made it clear I wanted a different game if I was hosting, and moved to RROP rules more attune to our local casino and big bet games. I got calls and complaints, essentially change is hard for people, and although I respected the fact I was changing habits and a social circle that had gone on for years, I couldn't stomach hosting what was for me a game that lacked some structure (tourney and cash).

I lost 2/3 or more of the old guard. I recruited new players. Even today some infrequent players have lodged the "too many rules" complaint, but I think they don't understand the rules they take for granted and guide their decisions. Let them be on the short end of a poorly run game and they may see things differently. If criticism is leveled I always ask, "which rules, I want to improve it." Usually they have nothing specific. My game now has a reputation of being fun and fair. Dealers who work and play at my game have told me it's the best around, and that makes me proud, because there are some notable ones that can't stay consistent. Just recently we picked up a new player, experienced, who has been a part of many home games and a super nice guy. He says my place is his favorite. Compliments like those make it worth it.

I can understand the distress of the implied criticism that their game is more social and fun, but keep building your game, promote it as fun and fair. Don't let the "rules argument" take center stage, they exist as a structure and safety net if needed. The players are what make a game.

 

[dimperdoo]

roger's rules FTW

 

[abby99]

• Busted players rebought by giving cash to the big stack for chips which was pocketed off the table. Cash in play didn't increase
• Short stacks were allowed to add cash in the middle of a hand to call multi-way raises rather than establishing a side pot. (Same as going light.)

I've played in many games like this over the years. They were all fixed or spread limit, none were table stakes, and going light was normal. I'd never play a big-bet game with these practices, but for a spread-limit kitchen-table game, it doesn't even seem strange to me.

Now, if I sat at a PLO/BigO game with these rules? It would be my shortest session ever.