CPC vs Paulson material differences (1 Viewer)

[Squakmix]

I recently received a sample set of CPC chips and have been thinking about how the CPC clay differs from Paulson chips. The CPC material feels noticeably stiffer/harder than Paulson clay, and I'm curious about differences in long-term wear. I haven't seen any CPC sets with rounded bicycle tire edges, flea bites seem rarer, and warping seems a bit less common too. Do people with CPC sets find that the edges stay sharp longer than Paulson chips or that they resist warping better?

 

[BGinGA]

Edges do stay sharper longer, but they do wear -- there are some old used Burt Co and ASM casino chips that are definitely bike tires.

Burt/ASM/CPC chips are a harder material, and are made using much higher pressure and temperature than other compression-molded chips. This can cause them wear down at a slower rate, but to actually chip and break more easily.

Both material types will warp if exposed to heat.

 

[raynmanas]

Do people with CPC sets find that the edges stay sharp longer than Paulson chips

definitely.

or that they resist warping better?

not really, but they are way easier to fix if they do warp.

 

[Colquhoun]

Edges do stay sharper longer, but they do wear -- there are some old used Burt Co and ASM casino chips that are definitely bike tires.

Burt/ASM/CPC chips are a harder material, and are made using much higher pressure and temperature than other compression-molded chips. This can cause them wear down at a slower rate, but to actually chip and break more easily.

Both material types will warp if exposed to heat.

I had always thought CPC were produced at lower temperatures, and that’s why they would possibly warp during shipping during summer months, etc.
Not true?

 

[Squakmix]

definitely.



not really, but they are way easier to fix if they do warp.

Interesting, I wasn't aware that they are easier to flatten. Given that they're stiffer than Paulson chips and made with higher pressure, I would have thought that they'd require more time/heat/force to fix.

 

[BGinGA]

I had always thought CPC were produced at lower temperatures, and that’s why they would warp during shipping during summer months, etc.
Not true?

Not true.

 

[BGinGA]

Interesting, I wasn't aware that they are easier to flatten. Given that they're stiffer than Paulson chips and made with higher pressure, I would have thought that they'd require more time/heat/force to fix.

Yes, CPC chips do warp more easily in my experience. The material, even though harder, softens due to heat more easily. That also makes the easier to flatten (and to accidentally damage during the flattening process).

 

[raynmanas]

Yes, CPC chips do warp more easily in my experience. The material, even though harder, softens due to heat more easily. That also makes the easier to flatten (and to accidentally damage during the flattening process).

you almost don't need heat at all to flatten them. i've experimented with some spinners from my set, and just a clamp + time seems to do the trick. no oven needed. my sample size is very small though, i've only done 4 chips so far.

 

[Squakmix]

It seem nice to be able to fix chips easily but the tendency of chips to warp at lower temps is also concerning. It seems easy to potentially overdo it and squish the chips when flattening them, although I imagine once you get the process down it's not too tough to avoid that.

 

[Josh Kifer]

Edges do stay sharper longer, but they do wear -- there are some old used Burt Co and ASM casino chips that are definitely bike tires.

Burt/ASM/CPC chips are a harder material, and are made using much higher pressure and temperature than other compression-molded chips. This can cause them wear down at a slower rate, but to actually chip and break more easily.

Both material types will warp if exposed to heat.

This is all dead on.

 

[Squakmix]

I'm surprised to hear that CPC chips chip and break more easily... It seems like most CPC sets that I see for sale have very few flea bites or nicks in the edges of chips, even well used ones. I can make a mark in the surface of a Paulson chip using just my fingernail, but CPC chips are hard enough to make that impossible for me so I was expecting to hear that edge nicks from playing/tossing them around are rarer.

 

[raynmanas]

I'm surprised to hear that CPC chips chip and break more easily... It seems like most CPC sets that I see for sale have very few flea bites or nicks in the edges of chips, even well used ones. I can make a mark in the surface of a Paulson chip using just my fingernail, but CPC chips are hard enough to make that impossible for me so I was expecting to hear that edge nicks from playing/tossing them around are rarer.

when a CPC chip gets a "nick" it's not so much a fleabite as a big chunk that chips off. it's not something you're going to be able to do with your fingernail.

really hard to get a picture with my phone, but this is what i mean (above the EA):

 

[Squakmix]

I see, that is quite a big chunk. How many of your chips has that happened to so far?

I came across this thread while searching around: https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/worn-broken-in-cpc-asms.20594/ with some great pictures of extremely well worn CPCs. I think a major reason why so many used sets for sale look so pristine is because people don't put their chips through as much abuse as a casino would, and casinos don't generally use CPC chips.

 

[raynmanas]

I see, that is quite a big chunk. How many of your chips has that happened to so far?

none of my own, that's a sample i have that was honestly very well-abused, i stress-tested them before deciding on that mold.

I think a major reason why so many used sets for sale look so pristine is because people don't put their chips through as much abuse as a casino would, and casinos don't generally use CPC chips.

and you are right about this. i have a friend with an ASM set that is close to 20 years old now, and even getting use roughly every other week once a month for that timeframe, you can barely tell they aren't brand new.

 

[Coyote]

CPCs appear to be definitely more durable than Paulsons, according to collective experience here.
Again, there are no casino-used CPCs, to my knowledge.

 

[Swisstopher]

definitely.



not really, but they are way easier to fix if they do warp.

I’ve got a few spinners in a CPC set. Is this fixable? I do find it annoying. What is the method ? Clamping at a certain temp? What about humidity or damp? Can that cause it?

 

[AlbinoDragon]

I’ve got a few spinners in a CPC set. Is this fixable? I do find it annoying. What is the method ? Clamping at a certain temp? What about humidity or damp? Can that cause it?

I have found spinners are strongly based on the mold used. It's mostly because most CPC molds have no/little recess for the inlay. I have >6000 H-molds, and there is a higher percentage of those that spin than others sets I have (hourglass, MD-50, scroll, FDL).

I have had zero success trying to "un-spin" ASM/CPC chips. I managed to wreck chips trying to clamp/press/bake them. Maybe inlay remove and replace is the way to go (that's my next attempt, though it's far from critical with my set as I made sure to get extras).



I live in a desert. I doubt humidity does it as that's not a problem here. Maybe heat, but all my chips are inside an climate controlled. After the first order, all my H-mold orders have included extras as part of the original order knowing those, in my experience, are more prone to spinners than other CPC molds.

 

[chipinla]

I have found spinners are strongly based on the mold used. It's mostly because most CPC molds have no/little recess for the inlay. I have >6000 H-molds, and there is a higher percentage of those that spin than others sets I have (hourglass, MD-50, scroll, FDL).

I have had zero success trying to "un-spin" ASM/CPC chips. I managed to wreck chips trying to clamp/press/bake them. Maybe inlay remove and replace is the way to go (that's my next attempt, though it's far from critical with my set as I made sure to get extras).



I live in a desert. I doubt humidity does it as that's not a problem here. Maybe heat, but all my chips are inside an climate controlled. After the first order, all my H-mold orders have included extras as part of the original order knowing those, in my experience, are more prone to spinners than other CPC molds.

Just curious what the “percentage” is. If you have over 6000 H mold what sort of numbers of your other sets do you have? Must be a lot of chips for your sample size

 

[AlbinoDragon]

During the various COVID lockdowns, I went through all my H-molds, from ASM in 2007 to CPC in 2015-ish and found the ASM's were worse than the newer CPC's (so it's tough to give precise numbers), but the ASM-era are definitely worse at maybe 15% or so spinning. The CPC's are much lower at maybe 5-8%. Whatever David and the crew in Maine have done in recent years (after the re-relocation of the equipment) has reduced the frequency by a not-insignificatnt amount).

My plan is to 'remove and replace' the offenders with @Gear labels as I suspect the spinners are caused by a high center at the label location. I'm going to experiment with a handful of sample labels to see if this "fixes" the issue. I have a sneaking suspicion it will.

 

[Swisstopher]

During the various COVID lockdowns, I went through all my H-molds, from ASM in 2007 to CPC in 2015-ish and found the ASM's were worse than the newer CPC's (so it's tough to give precise numbers), but the ASM-era are definitely worse at maybe 15% or so spinning. The CPC's are much lower at maybe 5-8%. Whatever David and the crew in Maine have done in recent years (after the re-relocation of the equipment) has reduced the frequency by a not-insignificatnt amount).

My plan is to 'remove and replace' the offenders with @Gear labels as I suspect the spinners are caused by a high center at the label location. I'm going to experiment with a handful of sample labels to see if this "fixes" the issue. I have a sneaking suspicion it will.

Yes. Looking at mine (all in one stack of the yellow 1000 Atlantic Club) they seem to have a high centre. I did wonder whether the colour clay had an effect as all others are ok

 

[buzzmonkey]

During the various COVID lockdowns, I went through all my H-molds, from ASM in 2007 to CPC in 2015-ish and found the ASM's were worse than the newer CPC's (so it's tough to give precise numbers), but the ASM-era are definitely worse at maybe 15% or so spinning. The CPC's are much lower at maybe 5-8%. Whatever David and the crew in Maine have done in recent years (after the re-relocation of the equipment) has reduced the frequency by a not-insignificatnt amount).

My plan is to 'remove and replace' the offenders with @Gear labels as I suspect the spinners are caused by a high center at the label location. I'm going to experiment with a handful of sample labels to see if this "fixes" the issue. I have a sneaking suspicion it will.

They stopped using lobster pot water in the clay mix.

 

[Swisstopher]

That’ll be it then. Why didn’t I think of that.

 

[Colquhoun]

They stopped using lobster pot water in the clay mix.

No more lobster pot water?!?
I’m out.

 

[allforcharity]

Perhaps over the years, since Paukson/GPI had to switch out their lead content, plus offer more and more colours, they had to go with more plasticing polymers which turned out to be softer and maybe even more brittle. CPC uses a lot of inorganic compounds from tried-and-true formulae from back in the day that have really stood the test of time for durability.