Copag, KEM, and Desjgn, Pros Cons?

Old State

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I have compared pre and post KEMs and see 2 differences.:
1. Pre face cards have more color
2. Pips on pre are thicker and even sometimes smuggy on edges.

I had only standard index KEMs for this comparison.
Yes, the colors and print changed over time. The card stock was the same before and after 2006 though . That is what most people are referring to when this topic comes up. There are those that seem to think only post USPC cards bowed. This is nonsense. The worst bowing Kems I ever had were from 2002. Had a few of the casino circle backs that warped like crazy. Then a set from 2003 that was used HEAVILY never bowed to this day (they are in retirement but kept them for sentimental reasons). I bought a post USPC set up dated 2006 and they took a slight bow. I boycotted Kem and started looking for a replacement as I mentioned before. Fast forward to 2011 and I hear about storing them as I mentioned before and decide to give them a try when I find a great deal. I forgot just how amazing they feel but did notice they were a bit rougher in texture. Since changing my storage method I’ve bought probably 5 more setups and they all remain totally flat.
 

BGinGA

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Throw me solidly in the anti-KEM camp. Every single deck I've ever owned or played/dealt with -- both pre- and post-USPC -- either arrived warped, or eventually warped after a short period of time, regardless of storage method. I'm done spending high prices on a sub-par product, as there are too many other great options in today's market, many for a lot less cash.

DesJgn, Fournier, Piatnik, and Bicycle Prestige are all good choices for quality bridge-size jumbo-index cards. Gemaco Superflex are also good, but pricey (if you can find them at all). Bullet makes great cards, but they are only available in poker size.

I gave up the cheaper-quality Copags years ago, and I wouldn't use Modiano cards if you paid me to do so. Fuck those crooked assholes.
 

Phyffe

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I'll second both of these statements...

I don't keep my Kems upside-down, but I do keep them semi-tightly packed in their cases. The jokers & the pair of promo cards live in the bottom of the cases. Add in 2 or 3 throwaways from old decks & you've taken up just enough space so the case cover is lightly touching the tops of the decks. I do that with all my cards, not just the Kems, but I guess that may be why I've never had a bowing issue with them. Mystery solved I guess.

I too thought J Designs we just a tick better with the older card stock (I still have a couple lightly used decks of those around here somewhere). But the new stock is d*mn close IMO. I've never been able to trip over a Dal Negro acetate deck so I can only surmise that they are likely close enough to the new J Designs to be a tossup. Which is really close to the Kems in feel, IMO. I prefer the Victorians.

OP didn't ask about Modiano, but they are right up there with the Kems & J Designs feel-wise IMO. I just don't care for the blunt spades look. Neither it seems were some at the WSOP. Not that I ever mistook one for a club, but they're just not for me.
In addition to this, as I've said before, I store mine now in old Bicycle paper boxes before putting them back in the case.

If you wanna see how anal I am, after that I store them in a food grade plastic bin which has desiccant gel packs strewn inside.
 

Old State

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In addition to this, as I've said before, I store mine now in old Bicycle paper boxes before putting them back in the case.

If you wanna see how anal I am, after that I store them in a food grade plastic bin which has desiccant gel packs strewn inside.
I haven’t had a single deck warp or bow since 2011 since are started storing them like I have described. That 2011 deck is still as flat as it was when it was new.

if you check Amazon frequently you can find them for as cheap if not cheaper than some other brands. I bought my last set up for $14.

These used to be $8.99 but even at $11 they are still a great value.
https://www.amazon.com/Cartamundi-100-Plastic-Setup-Standard/dp/B00KBB2JSE/ref=sr_1_7?dchild=1&keywords=cartamundi&qid=1576544566&sr=8-7

They feel exactly like Gemaco Superflex (so much so I think they are the same stock) so you will have to like a thicker card. Superflex ironically are pretty stiff and as about the limit of what I will tolerate. Benefit is they are 1000x nicer looking than the hideous Gemaco designs and colors.
 
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Phyffe

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I haven’t had a single deck warp or bow since 2011 since are started storing them like I have described. That 2011 deck is still as flat as it was when it was new.

if you check Amazon frequently you can find them for as cheap if not cheaper than some other brands. I bought my last set up for $14.

These used to be $8.99 but even at $11 they are still a great value.
https://www.amazon.com/Cartamundi-100-Plastic-Setup-Standard/dp/B00KBB2JSE/ref=sr_1_7?dchild=1&keywords=cartamundi&qid=1576544566&sr=8-7

They feel exactly like Gemaco Superflex (so much so I think they are the same stock) so you will have to like a thicker card. Superflex ironically are pretty stiff and as about the limit of what I will tolerate. Benefit is they are 1000x nicer looking than the hideous Gemaco designs and colors.
Old State, any idea if the Cartamundis you linked are the same as these?

https://www.amazon.ca/Cartamundi-Acetate-Highly-Durable-Setup/dp/B00KBBPA62

Those are what I have.
 

Old State

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Phyffe

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No those are different. They are acetate like Kems. I have a setup of those too and like them..but find them too smooth which actually makes them harder to riffle. They also have taken a slight bow but are still playable.
Exactly what happened to mine. Stored in a cool, dark place though the humidity here gets everywhere.
 

Old State

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It’s not just acetate cards either. My Gemaco Superflex and cheaper Gemaco 5 star also have a slight bow. (Gemaco's 5 star are the cheapest feeling cards I own and don’t really recommend)
The Superflex are the most I ever paid for cards too which was very disappointing. I now store all my cards in the method I started using for Kems. Even a deck of Desjgn Classic Culture arrived with a slight bow (he replaced it)

There is a certain card stock that seems the most impervious to bowing and I think it is PVC. Stock like Copag, DaVinci, Guild, Fournier/Bicycle prestige, Piatnik, and some others. However they have a cheaper and very plastic feel to them IMO
 
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AnteAndy

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There is a certain card stock that seems the most impervious to bowing and I think it is PVC. Stock like Copag, DaVinci, Guild, Fournier/Bicycle prestige, Piatnik, and some others. However they have a cheaper and very plastic feel to them IMO
I believe it. I've been using Bike Prestiege & Copags for years, and never had a deck bow on me ever.They do fade faster (especially the poker sized Prestieges), but I prefer it over warping.
 

surfik

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I believe it. I've been using Bike Prestiege & Copags for years, and never had a deck bow on me ever.They do fade faster (especially the poker sized Prestieges), but I prefer it over warping.
Ok, they do not bow but they do have other imperfections like wearing off (loosing paint), for that reason Bicycle are one of the worst cards per dolar spent, fact that they are packed in very nice separate for each deck boxes does not make up for that.
Plus PVC stock varies depending on company.
 

BGinGA

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The Prestige bridge size cards wear much, much better than the original poker size cards. Great bargain at $8/set.
 

surfik

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The Prestige bridge size cards wear much, much better than the original poker size cards. Great bargain at $8/set.
I stand corrected... For 8 bucks for two decks they are pretty good.
 

AnteAndy

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The Prestige bridge size cards wear much, much better than the original poker size cards. Great bargain at $8/set.
I stand corrected... For 8 bucks for two decks they are pretty good.
This is correct. I have a couple decks of Bridge sized Bike Prestieges, and have have not faded one bit yet. Amazing how Bike no longer has the bridge sized decks in production anymore, as they are far superior to the poker sized, at least in terms of wearing.
 

Old State

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I stand corrected... For 8 bucks for two decks they are pretty good.
if it’s this is what was offered on Amazon they didn’t come with a box. Mine are in an old Copag box. Plus I don’t think bridge sized are available and the price had gone up to around $16. For that price I’d rather have the Cartamundi CCPs linked above. Way nicer cards
https://www.amazon.com/Bicycle-Prestige-Playing-Cards-Jumbo/dp/B00BXX95RM/ref=sr_1_8?dchild=1&keywords=Bicycle+plastic+bridge+cards&qid=1576616388&sr=8-8
 

surfik

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if it’s this is what was offered on Amazon they didn’t come with a box. Mine are in an old Copag box. Plus I don’t think bridge sized are available and the price had gone up to around $16. For that price I’d rather have the Cartamundi CCPs linked above. Way nicer cards
https://www.amazon.com/Bicycle-Prestige-Playing-Cards-Jumbo/dp/B00BXX95RM/ref=sr_1_8?dchild=1&keywords=Bicycle+plastic+bridge+cards&qid=1576616388&sr=8-8
Well some time ago I bought about 100 Casino Cartamundi decks poker size Jumbo index. They shuffle well and despite fact that they do not last as long as KEMs I am happy camper.
 

Lipnbass

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Today i got my Bridge sized Jumbo Index Desjgn cards. I usually play with poker sized cards but i am really liking these. I have KEM arrows and Bicycle Prestige but i like the feel of these cards much better!
15785151546503080465629346277902.jpg
 

bsdunbar1

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Only DesJgn on Table 1 & Bicycle Prestige on Table 2 for me.
Seems we have all had good & bad experiences with all of the above, so.......
 
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