Copag, KEM, and Desjgn, Pros Cons? (1 Viewer)

This is correct. I have a couple decks of Bridge sized Bike Prestieges, and have have not faded one bit yet. Amazing how Bike no longer has the bridge sized decks in production anymore, as they are far superior to the poker sized, at least in terms of wearing.

I was hoping this wasn't the case.... Explains why they are near impossible to find.
 
This is correct. I have a couple decks of Bridge sized Bike Prestieges, and have have not faded one bit yet. Amazing how Bike no longer has the bridge sized decks in production anymore, as they are far superior to the poker sized, at least in terms of wearing.
Do they have Made in Spain Mark on the box?
 
@Dix - Thanks for illustrating both yours and @surfik point via the photo regarding boldness rather than index size. I see now what difference you are indicating. Is that middle card you mentioned a Modiano ?

Unfortunately no. Left to right in that photo were Kem, Trefl, Dal Negro. Modiano's font is a little bolder than Dal Negro, but not as much as the Trefl pictured.

Off the top of my head, as far as boldness of fonts go (for decks that are easily attainable on this side of the Atlantic), I'd put Faded Spade at likely the top of the list (remembering that I'm talking about jumbo index - which may or may not relate to std index), with Guild, Modiano, & Copag all having a more "traditional" yet bolder font than most.

NTP has a pretty bold font as well. When you can get them.
 
Hey guys,

Need some help. I've searched all over the forum and have found minimal results outlining index size comparisons across bridge decks. I'm particularly interested in bridge only decks here that are in standard index (with the exception of the Modiano Club Jumbo Index). I know even these standard indices can vary somewhat in size across brands. The goal of my search being to hear/see everyone's thoughts and preference on bridge size cards used for non-flop games that aren't necessarily Jumbo Index but still easy to see.

Is there much difference in pip and index size between the Desjgn Classic Cultures (Bridge), Modiano Club Bridge (Jumbo Index)? It would also be interesting to see size differences (if any) between Kem's (Bridge, Standard Index), Copag's, Fouriner's, Faded Spade's, etc. I know @surfik, @JMC9389, @Old State, @Dix @CdnBeerLover are all pro's when it comes to these type of questions/inquiries.

If possible, some comparison pictures would be awesome and definitely very appreciated as a current and future resource.


Thanks for your help and look forward to hearing everyone's thoughts.
Unfortunately, I do not have much in the way of bridge size std index cards. I have three sets

2011 WSOP Bicycle faces, Kem stock
2013 WSOP Bicycle faces, Fournier stock
OLG Kem
I thought I had some Modiano WSOP, but I may have given them away....if I find them, I'll update this post.

Quick pic of the three above (same order left to right). Pips are the same size, but Fournier are on a brighter stock so it's easier to read in my opinion.

IMG_20200701_144350_copy_1152x864.jpg
 
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Unfortunately, I do not have much in the way of bridge size std index cards. I have three sets

2011 WSOP Bicycle faces, Ken stock
2013 WSOP Bicycle faces, Fournier stock
OLG Kem
I thought I had some Modiano WSOP, but I may have given them away....if I find them, I'll update this post.

Quick pic of the three above (same order left to right). Pips are the same size, but Fournier are on a brighter stock so it's easier to read in my opinion.

View attachment 484121

Thanks for the post. Always nice to see the Kem's. I've been debating a purchase between Jumbo's or Standard in Bridge size. Can only imagine bridge Kem's feel great in the hand. I'm awaiting my Desjgn Classic Cultures so we will see how I like those.
 
I've got a deck of Modiano Club Jumbo Index arriving soon and am looking forward to seeing how I like them in regard to pip and index size for a bridge deck.

@JMC9389 One of your proper reviews on the V.2 Spades would be sweet. I would be interested to see where you scored them on your rating metric. I have a set and like them a lot personally. Thanks for the heads up regarding the pip size differences as I did not know this.

@surfik Appreciate your feedback man - I have looked into the Bike Prestige but couldn't find any bridge size decks anywhere... I had read that their bridge decks had been discontinued. Do you know if USPCC still sells them in bridge size and/or where to get them?

@Old State I am leaning toward Jason's Classic Cultures for the exact reason you mentioned (in addition to being partial towards desjgns). I like the Cultures card back color selection as well. Appreciate your follow up.

I bought a deck like this is Seoul last year. It said Made in Spain so I'm assuming its a Fournier product.

1593658641359.png
 
I bought a deck like this is Seoul last year. It said Made in Spain so I'm assuming its a Fournier product.

View attachment 484291

I have what I am assuming is the exact same set up. Card sleeves are a bit different than yours in the artwork dept. Similar to your thoughts, I'm assuming they are made by Fournier. Interestingly enough, these just don't feel like the same card stock as Fourniers 2826... Maybe it's just me. The Bike Prestiges are nice for sure but those Fournier 2826's have to be one of the sweetest feeling/tactile cards I've handled.

Where you saying in an eariler post that you were having issues with your desjgn decks after 3 sessions?
 
Unfortunately no. Left to right in that photo were Kem, Trefl, Dal Negro. Modiano's font is a little bolder than Dal Negro, but not as much as the Trefl pictured.

Off the top of my head, as far as boldness of fonts go (for decks that are easily attainable on this side of the Atlantic), I'd put Faded Spade at likely the top of the list (remembering that I'm talking about jumbo index - which may or may not relate to std index), with Guild, Modiano, & Copag all having a more "traditional" yet bolder font than most.

NTP has a pretty bold font as well. When you can get them.

Good info to know. Thanks for following up. Yeah those faded spades v.2 bridge deck look pretty sweet. Those things just kinda shuffle like crap. Love the feel, texture, colors and artwork but they can turn into a thumb sore if you're working them for a little while. Maybe the bridge set handles a bit better than regular index.
 
I have what I am assuming is the exact same set up. Card sleeves are a bit different than yours in the artwork dept. Similar to your thoughts, I'm assuming they are made by Fournier. Interestingly enough, these just don't feel like the same card stock as Fourniers 2826... Maybe it's just me. The Bike Prestiges are nice for sure but those Fournier 2826's have to be one of the sweetest feeling/tactile cards I've handled.

Where you saying in an eariler post that you were having issues with your desjgn decks after 3 sessions?

About the Desjgns, no, I meant that since I got them during the lockdown, we haven't been able to use em much, and to my mind I need to try them over 3 poker sessions to see if they last as well as the Modiano PAs

Funny enough about Seoul, I see a lot of relatively uncommon (for Asia) cards here. The other time I bought Copag Texas Holdems and I really liked em. Call me crazy but they dont feel anything like the 1546s. I think they were made in Belgium or something? Maybe Carta Mundi stock?

1593662263072.png
 
I bought a deck like this is Seoul last year. It said Made in Spain so I'm assuming its a Fournier product.

Fournier is owned by USPC (makers of Bike) since 1986.... which as of last year became a subsidiary of Cartamundi.

I should probably add a "who owns who" section to the card database, it's getting to be as incestuous a market as guitar/musical equipment brands or grocery chains.

When I met my current wife she worked for a northeast grocery chain known as Hannaford at their corporate HQ here in Maine. Hannaford was bought out by Belgian outfit Delhaize in 2000, which at the time had already acquired the Food Lion chain in the southeast. It was a little weird... the way the pecking order worked out, if she wanted to talk to her boss, she had to call Belgium. If she wanted to call a meeting, she had to hitchhike on the corporate jet to NC. She worked out of Maine, but she didn't answer to anyone in Maine. & most of those who relied on what she did were in Salisbury NC. Welcome to the global economy.

About 5 years ago Delhaize merged with Dutch conglomerate Ahold, who owns Giant, Martin's, & Stop&Shop in this country. In the ensuing restructuring, one of the offers she got was a pretty sizable "early retirement" package. Yea, we took the money & ran, figuring it was way better than the potential headaches coming down the pike. :D

Good info to know. Thanks for following up. Yeah those faded spades v.2 bridge deck look pretty sweet. Those things just kinda shuffle like crap. Love the feel, texture, colors and artwork but they can turn into a thumb sore if you're working them for a little while. Maybe the bridge set handles a bit better
Handling during dealing was my biggest gripe with FS, & the finish likely has a lot to do with it. It was almost like the finish caused the cards to interlock with each other. Maybe gets better with some extended break-in, but I didn't leave 'em in play long enough to tell.

They are pretty stiff as well. Which, I agree, does get old fast if you're hand shuffling all nite.

I bought Copag Texas Holdems and I really liked em. Call me crazy but they dont feel anything like the 1546s. I think they were made in Belgium or something? Maybe Carta Mundi stock?
I have some good news for you...... you're not crazy. But, it is somewhat confounding.

Copag's TXHE line may indeed be on a different stock than the rest of their offerings. If not a different stock, definitely at minimum a different finish coating. Which explains the price difference, but not the marketing strategy. Which is totally bizarre.

Most offer their premium decks in sets of two in a heavy cardboard or plastic boxed set, & have lessor priced decks in single tuck boxes. Modiano's "Platinum" series vs their "Texas Poker" line is a good example. Ditto Dal Negro.

Copag, for whatever reason, does the exact opposite. You can get any of their usual two deck sets in a nice plastic case for around $16(US), while the better quality TXHEs in cheap paper stock tuck boxes are currently $10 each on Amazon.

Why?..... You tell me & we'll both know. :D
 
I have some good news for you...... you're not crazy. But, it is somewhat confounding.

Copag's TXHE line may indeed be on a different stock than the rest of their offerings. If not a different stock, definitely at minimum a different finish coating. Which explains the price difference, but not the marketing strategy. Which is totally bizarre.

Most offer their premium decks in sets of two in a heavy cardboard or plastic boxed set, & have lessor priced decks in single tuck boxes. Modiano's "Platinum" series vs their "Texas Poker" line is a good example. Ditto Dal Negro.

Copag, for whatever reason, does the exact opposite. You can get any of their usual two deck sets in a nice plastic case for around $16(US), while the better quality TXHEs in cheap paper stock tuck boxes are currently $10 each on Amazon.

Why?..... You tell me & we'll both know. :D

Good to know I'm not imagining things!

But while we're on the topic of Copags, I still stick to my position that the best "paper" feel for any plastic card I own is the Copag EPOCs. Too bad the black face isn't suitable for poker or I'd buy more.

I also still assert the Copag Uniques, while they may share the same card stock as the 1546s, at least have a more linen feel to them. BTW, the reason why I didn't adopt them for my regular games is because during play the card actually chipped and cracked. This hasn't happened to me in practically ever, though I've seen it happen in casinos every so often, something I attribute to the shuffling machines.
 
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Do the various lines of Copag's (i.e. Class, 1546, Uniques, etc.) all come on different types of stock? I feel like my Classes decks have a thinner feel than my 1546's...

Mentioned this prior but my first deck of plastics were 1546's. They definitely have seen their fair share of abuse over the past couple years and those suckers are still going strong with no fading or signs of ware. Still blows me away for a deck that I spent under 20 bucks on. There are a ton of awesome cards out there but at the end of the day it's just nice to know you can always bust them out and they'll just flat out get the job done everytime. Especially at that price point.
 
Do the various lines of Copag's (i.e. Class, 1546, Uniques, etc.) all come on different types of stock? I feel like my Classes decks have a thinner feel than my 1546's...

Mentioned this prior but my first deck of plastics were 1546's. They definitely have seen their fair share of abuse over the past couple years and those suckers are still going strong with no fading or signs of ware. Still blows me away for a deck that I spent under 20 bucks on. There are a ton of awesome cards out there but at the end of the day it's just nice to know you can always bust them out and they'll just flat out get the job done everytime. Especially at that price point.
My original deck of 1546s are still usable. Its just that they have a slight bow to them and they feel kinda slick compared to what I prefer.

Definitely great value for the money but I was so excited to get my hands on some Uniques.
 
My original deck of 1546s are still usable. Its just that they have a slight bow to them and they feel kinda slick compared to what I prefer.

Definitely great value for the money but I was so excited to get my hands on some Uniques.

How do you like your set of Uniques ?
 
the card actually chipped and cracked. This hasn't happened to me in practically ever, though I've seen it happen in casinos every so often, something I attribute to the shuffling machines.
The problem is the card stock & what Copag has done with it.

The idea (I'm guessing) was to make a card with a similar profile to Kem/Gemaco/Modiano at a lower price point. Easy enough, just make 'em out of PVC. Problem is PVC is a harder material than acetate. So, to make 'em flex like the above you have to make 'em thinner. Then you apply a thicker finish coat or multiple layers of it to make up the thickness. Your trade-off is going to be durability, as a harder material is more brittle & will be prone to cracking when you go that thin.

Somewhere in the tales of woe in this forum is an old story where someone was dealing & one of 'em cracked when it hit a stack of chips while sliding across the table.

Do the various lines of Copag's (i.e. Class, 1546, Uniques, etc.) all come on different types of stock? I feel like my Classes decks have a thinner feel than my 1546's...
Other than the TXHE line, a Copag is a Copag. Difference is back design. They might be using a different finish coating on the Uniques.... maybe. Blindfolded, I'd be hard pressed to pick 'em out from 1546s, etc.
 
the TXHE line, a Copag is a Copag. Difference is back design. They might be using a different finish coating on the Uniques.... maybe. Blindfolded, I'd be hard pressed to pick 'em out from 1546s, etc.

Trust me, blindfolded I could tell a 1546 from a Unique or an EPOC (as long as you let me shuffle 'em ;))
 
This is correct. I have a couple decks of Bridge sized Bike Prestieges, and have have not faded one bit yet. Amazing how Bike no longer has the bridge sized decks in production anymore, as they are far superior to the poker sized, at least in terms of wearing.
Damn. LttP but didn't know they stopped production of the bridge size which explains why I couldn't find any.

I'm converting all my setups to purge the Modiano's after learning what happened with Desjgn's order. Fuck those guys.
 

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