Tourney Confusion at the casino. Minimum re-raise amounts. (1 Viewer)

[AdamAAAA]

Hi all.

An interesting scenario happened at the casino, and I wanted to share here as I didn't think it was right, but the players and dealer were all in agreement.

Blinds were 50/100 early in the tournament. I raise to 250 and am called by the guy immediately to my left. Next guy folds but the guy after re-raises to 500.

Two players at the table and the dealer then start saying this isn't enough, and that the minimum raise should be 600, but I'm sure the minimum re-raise is 400, my raise was 150, so double that pre-flop.

I didn't get why they were saying it must have been 600 at all, and was pretty sure the minimum he needed to re-raise was the size of the previous raise.

What is correct?

 

[moose]

My head hurts

 

[12thMan]

The minimum raise would most definitely be 400.

 

[abby99]

Huh? What are they putting in the water at your casino?

I suppose it could be weird house rules, but that would be too weird for me to imagine.

 

[12thMan]

This would make much more sense to me if the raise had actually been to 400 and a bunch of people incorrectly think it should have to be 500, that would be the "standard" way people get it wrong. I can't come up with a good reason why it would have to be 600.

 

[ChaosRock]

The only justification for the $600 min is if dealer thought the initial raise was $250 to a $350 bet, which would make it a $600 min raise next...

The way it was actually played, $250 bet, not $350, it's $400 min raise no question about it....

 

[AdamAAAA]

Maybe, but others at the table concurred with the dealer. Odd. Okay well just checking that I wasn't losing my mind and had forgotten the raise rules.

 

[12thMan]

I'm assuming the floor wasn't called , maybe next time you are there checking in for a game you could ask them to clarify what the ruling would be and then lay out your scenario. You don't even have to tell them it was from a game in their room, just lay out the action and ask what the min raise would be in that situation. If they say anything other than 400 I would love to hear their rationale.

 

[BGinGA]

Blinds were 50/100 early in the tournament. I raise to 250

Are you sure you didn't raise $250 on top of the $100 blind amount? How many chips did you place in front of you? Did you declare anything verbally? (saying 'raise 250' might be interpreted as raising 250 on top of the current bet, even if you meant 'raise to 250 total").

As others pointed out, the only way that 600 is the next minimum raise is if the initial blind bet of 100 was raised to 350 total (raise of 250), which would make the minimum raise amount 250 on top of the current 350, or 600 total.

 

[dickzapper]

Ugh I hate these min bet min raise rules. What purpose do they really serve? Pump up the rake? Eff off, rules.

 

[pltrgyst]

Ugh I hate these min bet min raise rules. What purpose do they really serve? Pump up the rake? Eff off, rules.

Nooker? Is that you?

 

[NicholasAK]

The rule is there so if there's a less than min all in the betting round is not reopened...a good rule.

I was in a 1-1 game with a 4 straddle last week, the straddle said raise 34 when it was limped to him. I sain no, he made it 30 more. Was misunderstood and players/dealer insisted I'd raised it an additional $30...it was a bit messed up.
#drunken homegame players

 

[luckbox]

Are you sure you didn't raise $250 on top of the $100 blind amount? How many chips did you place in front of you? Did you declare anything verbally? (saying 'raise 250' might be interpreted as raising 250 on top of the current bet, even if you meant 'raise to 250 total").

As others pointed out, the only way that 600 is the next minimum raise is if the initial blind bet of 100 was raised to 350 total (raise of 250), which would make the minimum raise amount 250 on top of the current 350, or 600 total.

correctamundo....yup im drinkin, i think better that way...

 

[AdamAAAA]

Are you sure you didn't raise $250 on top of the $100 blind amount? How many chips did you place in front of you? Did you declare anything verbally? (saying 'raise 250' might be interpreted as raising 250 on top of the current bet, even if you meant 'raise to 250 total").

As others pointed out, the only way that 600 is the next minimum raise is if the initial blind bet of 100 was raised to 350 total (raise of 250), which would make the minimum raise amount 250 on top of the current 350, or 600 total.

I would have definitely said 'raise to', however, I guess it is possible that I didn't put the 250 chips in front of me and accidentally added another 100 which the dealer then may have interpreted me as saying raise 250 to 350 total, which would make sense. I was so perplexed at the way they were calculating the minimum raise (with the belief I made it 250 to play) than double checking the chips in front of me.

I guess, as you say, it's possible I put 350 in front rather than the intended 250. I'll chalk this one up to my bad counting of chips as cannot believe that many people would get it wrong.

 

[Chris Manzoni]

If you really raised to 250 then the dealer did indeed blow it. As dumb as it sounds, I would've called the floor, because such a fine point can make a big difference late in the tournament when the threshold between shoving and raising becomes thin.

Interestingly, in a lot of card rooms overseas the minimum raise in a no limit game is the size of the last bet, not the last raise, so in this case he would've had to make the bet 500. Not sure where the dealer got the number 600 from, unless, as has been brought up above, you threw in 250 in addition to a 100 that was already out there.

Personally I don't have a strong preference for the American rule or the overseas rule (which is not universal in Europe or Asia believe it or not) but I think for a recreational tournament I would almost prefer limiting the minimum raise to double the size of the last bet, it would be a whole lot easier for everyone to deal with, especially when it's been drinky time.